283 replies to this topic

[Fishhawk]

Hotthedd, on 01 August 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Okay I have tested out the 3PV.

Anyone who claims that it does not give a massive advantage is being intellectually dishonest.

Sure, nobody will play an entire match in 3PV, but since 3PV is an instant toggle, it is easy to gain a situational advantage, then retract the camera. It completely breaks the immersion for me.

Can you state why you think it gives a "massive" advantage? I'm curious.

[Codex Clavdex]

Fishhawk, on 01 August 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

You are just postulating on this. I don't think their plan is to make 3PV the "go to" view. Otherwise they would have started off the game in 3PV.

Originally it was not their plan to even implement 3PV for the foreseeable future and look where we are now. It has been stated many times now in defense of 3PV that they feel they need it to bring in more players so it not to far of a stretch to assume that it will eventually be come the defacto view mode

[Tabrias07]

Fishhawk, on 01 August 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Can you state why you think it gives a "massive" advantage? I'm curious.

this is bait

[Max Fightmaster]

It's many times been the case that the most adaptable succeed the most, that living within a rigid, preconceived notion of how things "should be" and being unable or unwilling to adapt would just result in hardship for oneself. I never went in as a Founder thinking that PGI must do 'x', 'y', and 'z' because that is exactly what they stated they would or wouldn't do, I went in as a Founder because I really loved Battletech as a kid and wanted a less twitchy mech sim. I didn't care if there were a few minor things that would marginally affect a battle's outcome (coolant flush, P2W, whatever you perceive) because I knew I wouldn't be playing at the top echelon, I just wanted something fun. I didn't care if it was 1PV or 3PV, but I loved the 1PV "look" so I tossed a few coins PGI's way. Now that they've added a 3PV option over a year later in order to entice a larger player base at trying out their game, and therefore keep this game and the franchise floating longer, I don't have a problem with that, too.

My preconceived expectations are not the sole framework by which I judge their decisions, the hours of enjoyment I've garnered per dollar spent are. If 3PV ends up souring my experience, the game as a whole for me, and it just sucks...well, as an adult with a job and expendable income I'll move on to any of the dozens of other really, really good games out there to spend my money on. So far from the reports coming, it changes the game a little but isn't nuanced so strongly that it breaks the entire game in half for the average player.

And I'm fine with that.

TL;DR version : quitcherbitchin', grow up, vote with your dollars and not with your mouth, adapt or die or get out

[LaserAngel]

Belorion, on 01 August 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

They stated that this one was easy, and that it didn't take a whole lot to implement... so probably not much further if at all.

It was Bryan's pet project as he stated that he was the only person working on it months ago. Then they pushed it out to production.

I've been stuck at work but the advantages are obvious in awareness not just for movement and looking over or around terrain. I was able to catch Phil's steam and see pictures posted in other threads.

First-person was part of the original design pillars and it might not hurt to look over the Developer Blogs if you already haven't.

Edited by LaserAngel, 01 August 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Huge]

The mental gymnastics the shills are pulling would win us the Gold in every event.

[Fishhawk]

Tabrias07, on 01 August 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

this is bait

lol not at all .. I'm just curious.

I gave points of how I thought it was just a slight advantage, so I was curious as to his viewpoint.
My goal is not to argue how his opinion is invalid. In fact, he might point out something that I did not notice.

[Huge]

Have you just intentionally not been opening the images posted in this thread? We have mechs that can safely see over and around ridges that would be nothing but rock in the cockpit. Massive massive increase to FoV and you have more situational awareness without having to worry about twisting your cockpit view the right direction.

Other then that, pssss its completely worthless.

[Max Fightmaster]

Huge, on 01 August 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

QQ QQ QQ with a side of QQ

...is how I've been reading the entirety of your posts in this thread.

It's like when they come out with a new version of Street Fighter: Do you really complain this much that they adjusted Ryu's overhead by +2 frames, his st.Fierce by -4 frames, and his Fierce punch Hadouken by +3 frames all because the original intent of Capcom stated that this was going to be the final version? Did Daigo Umehara stop playing Ryu, like, ever whenever a new "final" version came out?

Adapt or die or get out

[Belorion]

The disadvantages outweigh the advantages. You pop into 3pv to take a peek over the ridge... you may not see the raven, or DDC across the way, but you better bet they saw your blinking red light.

[Hotthedd]

Fishhawk, on 01 August 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Can you state why you think it gives a "massive" advantage? I'm curious.

All you need to do is press F4 to see things you could not normally see in 1PV. The camera rotates. Walk to a spot that has cover, F4, see over low hills and/or around corners, retract camera (instantly), and you are set. Trouble avoided. Or scouting done. Or snipe targets picked.

If it was this easy for me in two or three matches, imagine how easy it will be once players have hours of practice with it.

[Belorion]

Huge, on 01 August 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Have you just intentionally not been opening the images posted in this thread? We have mechs that can safely see over and around ridges that would be nothing but rock in the cockpit. Massive massive increase to FoV and you have more situational awareness without having to worry about twisting your cockpit view the right direction.

Other then that, pssss its completely worthless.

and they can see you. Not really any different than popping over, except that no one is taking damage. Its easier to hit the person in 3pv than it is for them to hit the person that isn't in 3pv.

[Citizen Erased]

Gallowglas, on 01 August 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yes.

Sure, you can now see the mech to the left of you, but you aren't able to see what's directly in front of you and don't have the situational awareness that the minimap gives you. It's a tradeoff at best.

This.

Max Fightmaster, on 01 August 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

It's many times been the case that the most adaptable succeed the most, that living within a rigid, preconceived notion of how things "should be" and being unable or unwilling to adapt would just result in hardship for oneself. I never went in as a Founder thinking that PGI must do 'x', 'y', and 'z' because that is exactly what they stated they would or wouldn't do, I went in as a Founder because I really loved Battletech as a kid and wanted a less twitchy mech sim. I didn't care if there were a few minor things that would marginally affect a battle's outcome (coolant flush, P2W, whatever you perceive) because I knew I wouldn't be playing at the top echelon, I just wanted something fun. I didn't care if it was 1PV or 3PV, but I loved the 1PV "look" so I tossed a few coins PGI's way. Now that they've added a 3PV option over a year later in order to entice a larger player base at trying out their game, and therefore keep this game and the franchise floating longer, I don't have a problem with that, too.

My preconceived expectations are not the sole framework by which I judge their decisions, the hours of enjoyment I've garnered per dollar spent are. If 3PV ends up souring my experience, the game as a whole for me, and it just sucks...well, as an adult with a job and expendable income I'll move on to any of the dozens of other really, really good games out there to spend my money on. So far from the reports coming, it changes the game a little but isn't nuanced so strongly that it breaks the entire game in half for the average player.

And I'm fine with that.

TL;DR version : quitcherbitchin', grow up, vote with your dollars and not with your mouth, adapt or die or get out

And pretty this too...

Edited by Citizen Erased, 01 August 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Neros]

Belorion, on 01 August 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

The disadvantages outweigh the advantages. You pop into 3pv to take a peek over the ridge... you may not see the raven, or DDC across the way, but you better bet they saw your blinking red light.

As opposed to in first person where you actually pop over a ridge and get PPCs in your face.

[Farpenoodle]

Huge, on 01 August 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

The mental gymnastics the shills are pulling would win us the Gold in every event.

"Shills" would imply people getting something out of saying what they do. Maybe it's possible people actually think it's not that bad? Maybe? Possibly? I dunno.

[Belorion]

Hotthedd, on 01 August 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

All you need to do is press F4 to see things you could not normally see in 1PV. The camera rotates. Walk to a spot that has cover, F4, see over low hills and/or around corners, retract camera (instantly), and you are set. Trouble avoided. Or scouting done. Or snipe targets picked.

If it was this easy for me in two or three matches, imagine how easy it will be once players have hours of practice with it.

and they now know exactly where you are too.

[Randalf Yorgen]

I was just watching the live stream from twitch and I couldn't help but notice that everytime I think it was Paul asked about making the Drone destructable so people could loose the third person view for the rest of the match and everyone always got very quiet and avoided the question. From what I saw, even though there was no free look there was still an advantage given by third person view in that it takes the game out of the Sim mode and turns it completely into an arcade type of game. It gives you a very wide field of view with no mech parts blocking any of it, you can still zoom in it, and it does allow you to stay mostly hiden but still be able to see partly around obsticals that you can't do in First person view. Although it looks good, and it really does LOOK good, it degrades the feel of the game and reduces it to a dumb dumb play style that will overtake the rest of the game as the competitive players will run third person for the wide field of view with no blockages and then click into 1st person once they have manouvered around the oponents and the every day player will have to follow suit or he/she will simply end up getting stomped. IMO it's a bad move, most likely born from listening to people who tested the game for 5 minutes at PAX east/west when asked what would make the game better and more attactive to them and it will simply hasten the exit of a percentage of the so far loyal, although upset, playerbase who have been spending some money with MW:O What I saw doesn't interest me and is prety much what everyone was warning against on the forums. Having the "Hard Core" mode in CW that will be only First person doesn't cover it as it caters to the hard core teams and elitest players and doesn't make up for this huge, again IMO, mistake that PGI has chosen to adopt. Just about the only save that PGI could attempt, aside from walking away from third person view (which isn't likely) would be to make some servers third person and some servers first person but then you are splitting the player base, an already small and indanger of shrinking more, playerbase and killing the game altogether.


It is visually stunning and it looks very arcade style fun but it's not what I really want to play and there are a lot of people who share this stand point. I read where some people said that PGI would do small buffs to this over time until it didn't make one lick of difference in the game but unfortunately that's not true, just being able to adpot third person view with the wide, unfettered field of vision that good pilots can manipualte by edging right up to the bottom lip of a ledge and being able to see clearly down into the bowl/valley/ river bed on the other side without exposing themselves to damage is an advantage way beyond anything already in the game. Again this is IMHO, there will be those who love it and sing its praises to the masters on high and I fear that once again they will be the only ones listened to with regards to this... mistake.

Very sad with what I saw, sad and disapointed. Great looking graphics though, I guess you have that to hug and keep you warm at night.

[Huge]

Belorion, on 01 August 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

and they can see you. Not really any different than popping over, except that no one is taking damage. Its easier to hit the person in 3pv than it is for them to hit the person that isn't in 3pv.

They can see a tiny little red blip that could easily be missed as they only need to pop it out, scan over the cover, then go back into first person. Scouting is complete and they completely took the risk out of looking over cover. It is a flat out massive advantage. Who cares if you do catch that slight red blip.

All you know is a mech is behind cover, while he know how many mechs you have. What they are. What they are carrying. All of this without having to risk his armor.

Saying it is not advantageous is a flat out lie.

[Belorion]

Neros, on 01 August 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

As opposed to in first person where you actually pop over a ridge and get PPCs in your face.

Now you get more ppcs in the face if you pop over. Since they all saw your blinking red light.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Belorion, on 01 August 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

The disadvantages outweigh the advantages. You pop into 3pv to take a peek over the ridge... you may not see the raven, or DDC across the way, but you better bet they saw your blinking red light.

Press f4, problem solved