100 replies to this topic

[GHQCommander]

Leanansidhe, on 12 June 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

I do love it when serten people put on the superior teacher voice and go “Humpf humpf people need to learn, they should be taught” slams fist on table “Hupf harr” I can tell you prty much exactly what will happen if you force people to sit there for 8-10 extra minutes to watch other people play

They will go “**** this, don’t have time” and the game will either die or there will be exploits to get around this, maybe a second account that you play while your primary is in “Your dead, fun stops now” mode. So the idea of “Teaching” people anything is a BAD one.

I agree. I think this waiting idea comes from gaming a long time ago, excluding unique games such as turn based...or 3 player chess

Edited by GHQCommander, 12 June 2012 - 05:06 AM.

[Aelos03]

i hope it will be stuck in observer mode because it will promote better playing and less kamikaze people

[Lumpi]

There is something I really do not understund. Why do some people want do be punished? I play a game to have fun. Not to watch others having fun for 10 minutes. I do play WoT, too, and I leave a match when I die and start an other game with an other tank. But I dont play kamikaze, I still play to win the match, or at least die trying so
If it is a good match I might even stay and watch the outcome, buplease, please, pretty please don't force us to stay in observer mode!

[Death Mallet]

Respawn sucks. But so does being forced to sith through the whole rest of the match if you don't want to.

You should be able to start a new battle asap.

I think the quotes that were provided were misinterpreted though.

The one question was about people lagging out or being DC'd and not being online for the end of the match. That doesn't preclude a WoT style arrangement where you can optionally watch end end of the battle or start a new one.

[belakor502]

I hope that the you can play with another mech after you die but not with the same one untill the battle ends. I mean how realistic is it to get into the battlefield and retrieve your mech while the fight is still going on?

[Torcip]

Am I the only one who would like to watch the rest of his team duke it out for the rest of the match. A 10 minute match isn't long at all. And plus, time wasted could be a good deterrent to people who just rush in CoD style expecting to back stab people.

[GHQCommander]

This is one of the most exciting aspect of the game for me.

Battlestar Galactica Online works with a base on each side on every map. When a player is destroyed they go back to the base, can repair, buy ammo and it is a chance to tweak their build. Taking the player out of the match for 2-3 minutes maybe longer. But they can leave the base in any condition and re-join the battle, even if they need to run across the map to re-join their team.

This is an approach that gets no complaint on Battlestar.

MW:O being a territory game, I would bet maps need a forward base or a planet has drop ships and that we do return to them for some time. How else could it work, I mean it could not re-spawn us 20 seconds after blowing up and throw us straight back into the battle. A battle could go on forever, a territory would never change hands. These games must always cause a set back for every player destroyed, if a side takes enough players out quick enough, the weakened side needs to retreat.

[Leanansidhe]

Torcip, on 12 June 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

time wasted could be a good deterrent to people who just rush in CoD style expecting to back stab people.

*HULK SMASH*

Seriusly dont you peaple see how this is not fun, Not fun = Sucks = game dies?
Do you want to kill the game before it has a chance to get popular?
Hige penalties [Yes i consider being forced to sit there for 8min to be a VERY big penalty] will not "Force" or "TEAC" anything it will only encurage base camping. is that what you want a stagnent 12 v 12 mechs siting there and watching the ridge line for who snaps first?

[GHQCommander]

Torcip, on 12 June 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Am I the only one who would like to watch the rest of his team duke it out for the rest of the match. A 10 minute match isn't long at all. And plus, time wasted could be a good deterrent to people who just rush in CoD style expecting to back stab people.

You won't be the only one but I don't think its how games are made and I doubt it works either.

10 minutes or even 5 is time spent not getting resources, c-bills, XP and increasing your score. In MMO time is money so to speak and in territory control MMO you will find a lot of time is spent travelling anyway. When your travelling between territory, hunting the enemy detected in your territory or trying to figure out the next best battle to take part in and so on.

To then get a time penalty would be painful to a gamer.

[ForceUser]

Situation: I am in my scout mech 3min into the game and I round a corner and bam a hunchback unloads everything into me. It's a good player so he has support and I get pretty much instagibbed.

Fact: Forcing a gamer to spend 50%-80% of his gaming time doing NOTHING (in addition to losing c-bils and not getting much XP) is not going to 'teach him to play better' It's going to frustrate him and congrats you're down a player. Be that gamer 12y old or 80y old you will quickly run out of people to shoot.

Solution: A WoT style 'back to mechbay' mechanic already has the punishment built in: Mech is locked for the duration of the match, repair bills and reduced XP (on account of not doing damage, spotting, etc.) For the most part this reduces suicide play to grind XP without ******* everyone off.

Evidence: The quote floating around is somewhat ambiguous unfortunately

Quote

All players in a match when it ends will get the match rewards, disconnected players will not gain any progression as rewards are handed out at the end of a match.

The first bolded part 'in a match when it ends' seems to indicate that they need to be in the game spectating (although it doesn't state that specifically) but can be interpreted as just meaning all the players that played in that match will get rewards because the second bolded part specifically states which players will get punished (you have to look at the sentence as well as its component parts). The last bolded part states when the XP and C-bills are handed out and is correct because end XP can be influenced by the entire team and encourages team play (like spotting, NARC, etc.)

The biggest thing though is there is no confirmation OR denial of a 'back to mechbay' feature nor how such a thing would work. I think that if you say the MWO will use a WoT style game play then you need to have concrete evidence of important features like these before saying with certainty if they will be using it OR NOT.

But forcing me to spectate for 10min because other players were better than me or just plain lucky is a very, very bad idea. Go play a FPS and force yourself ot not respawn for 5min or heck just 2 min. I'm sure that will teach you to be a better player (or just to camp more yey)

[jamofox]

Aelos03, on 12 June 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

i hope it will be stuck in observer mode because it will promote better playing and less kamikaze people

yeah well, what if few survivors are these "better players" just camping somewhere and not actually fighting in any way?
doesnt this provoke people more to camp than fight ?
and if those repair costs are too much for losing team, it would provoke to camp even more.
im sure this thing is hard to get solved correctly but Development team will get this straight.
i would say thats another problem, seen in many other games. you can not force people on spectator mode.
at least i cant stand it tho i like to watch that match to the the end even i have died early but not always.

[Steel Talon]

GHQCommander, on 12 June 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

This is one of the most exciting aspect of the game for me.

Battlestar Galactica Online works with a base on each side on every map. When a player is destroyed they go back to the base, can repair, buy ammo and it is a chance to tweak their build. Taking the player out of the match for 2-3 minutes maybe longer. But they can leave the base in any condition and re-join the battle, even if they need to run across the map to re-join their team.

This is an approach that gets no complaint on Battlestar.

MW:O being a territory game, I would bet maps need a forward base or a planet has drop ships and that we do return to them for some time. How else could it work, I mean it could not re-spawn us 20 seconds after blowing up and throw us straight back into the battle. A battle could go on forever, a territory would never change hands. These games must always cause a set back for every player destroyed, if a side takes enough players out quick enough, the weakened side needs to retreat.

Hopefully we get different gamemodes soon, not like WoT after 2 years
& all gamemodes gain same weight, not like LoL where dominion has no ranked play so its "just for fun"

[Coolant]

This is a hot topic because this directly affects people's time and if they have invested $$ then money. This game should not be exactly like previous mechwarrior titles but improve on them and fix what was wrong with them. However, if you look at MW4:Mercs, which was the last mechwarrior game, and the servers that players hosted and players played in, it was 95% respawn. Players had the option to set up their servers as Destruction (no respawn/Deathmatch/Solaris whatever you want to call it) or Battle (respawn) or other game types. Server owners and players alike chose respawn. If there even was a Destruction/Deathmatch server it was empty or nearly empty. Part of the reason for choosing respawn (Battle/Team Battle) was that you scored points for damage, but the biggest reason was that people didn't join a server to watch others play, they joined to play - the entire length of the map. Now, I'll play no-respawn and still love it in MWO if that is the only available game type at launch. I will look forward to later patches with new types though. But, there should be available options other than Observer Mode to pass the time if we so choose...

[belakor502]

ForceUser, on 12 June 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

The first bolded part 'in a match when it ends' seems to indicate that they need to be in the game spectating (although it doesn't state that specifically) but can be interpreted as just meaning all the players that played in that match will get rewards because the second bolded part specifically states which players will get punished (you have to look at the sentence as well as its component parts). The last bolded part states when the XP and C-bills are handed out and is correct because end XP can be influenced by the entire team and encourages team play (like spotting, NARC, etc.)

Its actually like this in Wot: After you die and leave the battle its actually just like you would still be in the battle. So to be disconnencted they mean to disconnect on purpose while playin and still being alive. If you have an unintentionall disconnect you usually have 2 min time to reconnect. In this time your tank is standing around in the battle and enemys can kill it. However if you manage to connect you get the exp, no matter if you got killed in the meantime.

[Dhread Danite]

Since they state that xp-credits are awarded at the end of the match, I would assume that the match continues until one team is eliminated. It can be assumed that a downed mech pilot used the escape pod and you may or may not watch the finish of the match. According to what I have been reading a disconnection from the match will result in no xp or credits awarded to the downed mech. Then when the results are posted you go to the mech lab and assess the damage done to your mech and repair what you can afford. If you have more than one mech I would assume you could pilot your backup for another match and it would proceed the same way of the first match. In that case you would go to the mech lab and then have two mechs to repair.

[ForceUser]

Yup, playing WoT myself. Have had to kill the game once or twice for the red creen bug and had the game crash on me a few timnes as well. Always managed to rejoin game but I'm usually snappy about it.

Dhread Danite, on 12 June 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Since they state that xp-credits are awarded at the end of the match, I would assume that the match continues until one team is eliminated. It can be assumed that a downed mech pilot used the escape pod and you may or may not watch the finish of the match. According to what I have been reading a disconnection from the match will result in no xp or credits awarded to the downed mech. Then when the results are posted you go to the mech lab and assess the damage done to your mech and repair what you can afford. If you have more than one mech I would assume you could pilot your backup for another match and it would proceed the same way of the first match. In that case you would go to the mech lab and then have two mechs to repair.

That is the WoT model

Edited by ForceUser, 12 June 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[wanderer]

I think that the best option will be "You are a pile of scrap, deal with it.". Keeps people playing vs. running Suicide Specials hoping for a quick kill before they explode or get shot to bits.

That being said, match times are NOT going to be long. Either you're going to kill all of the other guys, or you're going to cap their base and win that way instead. Seriously, I'd expect you're not going to see matches run out of time, and honestly you're not likely to see fights last much more than 10 minutes. Watch the gameplay videos. People die pretty darn quick when engaged.

Edit note: And with no respawn, matches will be shorter as well. Players being able to pour more units into a match mean they're stretching things out. No thanks!

Edited by wanderer, 12 June 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[Vilekon]

Trust me, the games will last 10 min, once the mechs start falling and you or the other team realizes they are at a disadvantage the camping starts.it will be a fast 5 min then a slow 5 min.

And I would rather not sit around for 5 min, I don't want to encourage WoT suiciding, but locking people into a game especially if you get dinged right off the bat will definitely put some players off.

[Murphy7]

Vilekon, on 12 June 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Trust me, the games will last 10 min, once the mechs start falling and you or the other team realizes they are at a disadvantage the camping starts.it will be a fast 5 min then a slow 5 min.

And I would rather not sit around for 5 min, I don't want to encourage WoT suiciding, but locking people into a game especially if you get dinged right off the bat will definitely put some players off.

I see no need to lock them into the game, but I am also in favor of prorating their compensation after match - allow players to make the decision that sticking around is not worth it to them, and let them find greener pastures in another match.

I would not want to see people enter a bunch of matches, and somehow find a way to die in several matches and keep rolling, knowing that even the losing side compensation will be coming in for them across three matches in the time it took for another group to win one match.

When it becomes profitable to die and keep moving on, I think the system would be broken.

[Caractacus]

Fides, on 12 June 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

I think it would be nice if you had mech insurance, insurance being what it is, if your mech is destroyed it should only cover part of the cost of a new mech while always covering the minimum cost of the cheapest mech.

Already beat you to it. Our jingle is "Federationwide is on your side."