111 replies to this topic

[Caswallon]

Victor Morson, on 19 August 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Ah ha. I do believe you've just been owned Funkadelic. It's a TOS violation to do what you're doing!

So you're right. I advise everyone to NOT call out these positions, but instead take screenshots and report the hiding 'mechs.

I apologize for my earlier suggestion to call their coordinates, I was unaware of that rule being added (in the last month, I haven't checked for two or so). That said what you are doing is directly against the rules, so yeah.

A very good observation Victor and perhaps the source of the heat in this debate. Following my own advice I have started this thread http://mwomercs.com/...-review-needed/ I would appreciate it if you (all of you reading this far on this thread) would all weigh in on it. If nothing else this discussion has highlighted a grey area in gameplay just before the games official launch.

[C E Dwyer]

Powering down to save stats is one of the most selfish and pointlessly sad things a person can do, so small and pointless are these people lives that a set of stats in a game has this much value.

Powering down in a game where its the only chance to win assault resources, counting to 750 or the cap on an assault base, is completely legit. it stops locks and will also cool your mech faster.

Those even more sad than this are those that disconnect in Terra therma or walk out of bounds..dieing out of bounds should carry a hefty penalty, and disconnects should get nothing...the sad part is they will get xp and cb even if the team loses.

edit
Also calling out a persons position is an offence that can get you banned if its reported

Edited by Cathy, 19 August 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Victor Morson, on 18 August 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I find these guys easy to deal with.

If your last light is being dumb and hiding in a no-win scenario, just call out their exact position on public chat.

It's not hurting your team, if your team has no way to win in the first place.

except if you get reported you face a bann

[AvatarofWhat]

Appogee, on 12 August 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

You are selfish. Saying ''that's how I feel'' doesn't excuse it.


Your k/d is already meaningless - to yourself and to others - if you distort it by hiding at the end of losing matches.

So man up, stop deluding yourself, and try to get a kill before the game ends, regardless of how hard that is..

Remember, if you do kill someone going down in a blaze of glory then everyone on your team who ever damaged that Mech will get a kill assist. By being selfish and wimping out, you are denying all of them the opportunity for CBills and XP, as well as yourself.

Lmao. You sir are self-entitled. I owe you and other random people on the internet nothing. I play this game to have fun in the way I want to and if that means I want to enjoy playing hide and seek when Im stripped or small laser away from death because I felt my team were a bunch of tards that did nothing but try to get me killed then so be it. Yes I am selfish, Im playing this game for myself and my friends and all you other randoms can screw off for all I care. I'm not doing this for charity, Im doing it for myself. So take your opinion and shove it.

I should go on a suicide run so a crap team that scratched the paint on every mech with a medium laser can get that 1% chance for me to score them an extra assist? you sir are deluded. I also like how you try to tell me what is meaningless to me. Because you know, you get to decide that.

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 19 August 2013 - 07:53 AM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Victor Morson, on 18 August 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I find these guys easy to deal with.

If your last light is being dumb and hiding in a no-win scenario, just call out their exact position on public chat.

It's not hurting your team, if your team has no way to win in the first place.

Victor Morson, on 19 August 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

Funky, when I was wrong on the rules.. I admitted it.

But you cannot talk your way out of this. Disengaging and refusing to play the game or to try to play the game is a direct rule violation no matter the excuses or reasoning you use. I will make sure that as many people report it as possible in any game in which I witness it, too.

It specifically states that hiding when your armor is toast is not a valid defense of what you are doing. Specifically.

You might not like it, but hiding and not trying to achieve victory in the process = Reportable offense.

So you say that hiding while not trying to achieve victory is a violation of the rules. But you say in your first post they have no chance of winning, and then you violate the rules by bird-******* them? So basically you are telling them to suicide, which violates another rule. Get you story straight...

EDIT- look victor, if you are trying to end the game as soon as possible, tell the enemy team to cap. Thats pretty quick in and of itself. That way the game is over quick, the mech with no chance of winning doesnt have to suicide, and everyones a happy camper except for the bloodhounds on the enemy team looking to inflate their k/d by killing a crippled mech.

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 19 August 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Appogee]

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Lmao. You sir are self-entitled. I owe you and other random people on the internet nothing. I play this game to have fun in the way I want to and if that means I want to enjoy playing hide and seek when Im stripped or small laser away from death because I felt my team were a bunch of tards that did nothing but try to get me killed then so be it. Yes I am selfish, Im playing this game for myself and my friends and all you other randoms can screw off for all I care. I'm not doing this for charity, Im doing it for myself. So take your opinion and shove it.

What a sad attitude. I'm glad there aren't too many people with your lack of community mindedness around.

Edited by Appogee, 19 August 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Appogee, on 19 August 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

What a sad attitude. I'm glad there aren't too many people with your lack of community mindedness around.

Lets have a round of applause for appogee, the most selfless mechwarrior around. I'm sure you even follow that dumb lone wolf that charges straight into the enemy formation because there is a small chance you can save him/her when the rest of the team is taking cover.

Like I said in my first post I very rarely hide and mostly if im stripped and have little chance of contributing, yet your the only one who personally attacked me for it.

You criticize me but really all you want to do is make yourself feel like you are a better person then me because when it comes to video games I prioritize my fun over others. News Flash- having fun is what playing games is all about! Why should I do something that I dont like in a video game? Clearly you are out of intelligent rebuttals and have resorted to trying to shame me.

Stop with the personal attacks and get a life.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Victor Morson, on 19 August 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

Funky, when I was wrong on the rules.. I admitted it.

But you cannot talk your way out of this. Disengaging and refusing to play the game or to try to play the game is a direct rule violation no matter the excuses or reasoning you use. I will make sure that as many people report it as possible in any game in which I witness it, too.

It specifically states that hiding when your armor is toast is not a valid defense of what you are doing. Specifically.

You might not like it, but hiding and not trying to achieve victory in the process = Reportable offense.

See the team treason rule is cut and dry.
"Non-Participation Abuse" is subjective.

Just because I am the last mech standing and I am hiding. it does not mean I am breaking the precipitation rule.

I can be:
a: waiting for the enemy to break up.
b: trying to figure a way to win, buying time for a sneak attack.
c: finding a good place for cover and take the battle where I as the last standing decide is best for my game.
d: sticking and moving powering down (if I am in a non ecm mech) waiting and moving again.
e: forcing a cap win to prevent you from wining more salvage and money. Which is a very acceptable game strategy no matter what you want to call "Non-Participation Abuse"
f: If you are the last mech standing AND WERE PLAYING THE ENTIRE MATCH AND HIDE YOU ARE NOT IN VIOLATION OF THIS RULE... Do you understand the word "Participation" preventing you more salvage as the last mech standing is still "Participation". Especially if I have one of the top dmg dealt

Again this rule is subjective. Just because I dont run into the enemy mob as the last mech standing does not let you tell me how I should or should not participate. This rule is talking about people who did/do nothing. I never just do nothing. Im awesome.

Just report it and let PGI get a giggle.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 19 August 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[Appogee]

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Lets have a round of applause for appogee, the most selfless mechwarrior around. I'm sure you even follow that dumb lone wolf that charges straight into the enemy formation because there is a small chance you can save him/her when the rest of the team is taking cover.

There's no correlation between ''not being selfish'' and ''being a poor tactician''. But then, as there's really no good defence for being selfish and a poor team player, I guess you must resort to making stuff like that up.

Personally, I preferred it when you explained how you didn't care at all about any of your team members' game experience. At least that was honest.

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

You criticize me but really all you want to do is make yourself feel like you are a better person then me

Actually, no, your values are between you and your family and friends, and I don't need any self-affirmation of mine. I am engaged in this thread because I'd like to have people on my team who try their best to make the team win, and not skulk off, hide, power down, disconnect or opt out of the match early, because ''they don't care about randoms and owe nothing to anyone''.

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

because when it comes to video games I prioritize my fun over others.... Clearly you are out of intelligent rebuttals and have resorted to trying to shame me.

Actually, it's your own words that shame you.

Edited by Appogee, 19 August 2013 - 12:26 PM.

[Edson Drake]

It is such an annoying "tactic" to hide and power down as the last man alive.

As said, it only drags the gameplay without a reasonable reason. What? A win? For what, C-Bills, stats? If your team performed poorly and you as a result, won't get squat for the victory. Good thing I have multiple mechs, so I can just disconnect but what about those who only own one and need to wait?

I am one of those who used to call out coordinates, but then PGI included that as Team Treason so now I just disconnect, but I find it a very passive form of griefing to hide and power down as well.

Remember: the game is online multiplayer, it's all good to have your fun, but the others also need to have fun as well. I see many people quitting games forever not because of game flaws, but because of communiy behaviours like those.
Be a good sportsman and die honourably by trying to cap or *gasp*, by fighting. You never know: that Atlas might be a novice pilot, or you just luck out and end up winning. I saw this happening much more frequently than one would expect.

Quote

It took the enemy a longer while to figure out what to do, search, whatever and one of the guys on my "Team" decided to chat out "I can see a base from where he is". Well, duh, I was waiting for the enemy to cap my base. I power up to turn my facing and *** the issue in the bud, but that was a bad idea, dude called out my position immediately. I still ended up getting 1 kill in the match, but he seriously said "If you would have followed the group we may have won". Ah yes, the magical C1 that carried the group....

This is a good example of valid power down tactic, too bad it didn't work. Guy needed to make sure you weren't AFK/Disconnected by asking "are you there Cat?" though.

Edited by Edson Drake, 19 August 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Appogee, on 19 August 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Actually, no, your values are between you and your family and friends, and I don't need any self-affirmation of mine. I am engaged in this thread because I'd like to have people on my team who try their best to make the team win, and not skulk off, hide, power down, disconnect or opt out of the match early, because ''they don't care about randoms and owe nothing to anyone''.

The worst part is they try to act like everyone else is at fault because don't want to wait several minutes while they hide in a corner, which happens a LOT on Terra Therma in particular.

Fortunately, again, doing this is directly against the rules. If you're just letting the enemy take the cap points, don't have any reasonable way to win, and instead of fighting/dying/capping you just go to a corner and shut down... you are violating non-participation rules very clearly.

While I was in error, again, earlier in the thread with the new rule I admit that. It's time these people who keep coming in here trying to use words like "Honor" every other line to justify something that is incredibly selfish, griefy and a violation of rules.

Edson Drake, on 19 August 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

I am one of those who used to call out coordinates, but then PGI included that as Team Treason so now I just disconnect, but I find it a very passive form of griefing to hide and power down as well.

Don't just disconnect: Take a screenshot and mail support. Encourage your whole team to do the same thing.

Given you're allowed to say someone is AFK, I'm also assuming you are allowed to say someone is hiding if you don't call out where, so you can likely encourage the other team to send reports in as well.

The easiest way to get rid of this isn't to help make sure their 'mechs die, it's to make sure they get a rules violation. They're more likely to remember that.

I cannot stress enough I'm not talking about pilots still trying to win. If you're at 700 points in Conquest and have the cap points left to win, by all means, run like hell! Hide! Survive! The difference is you are still trying to win the game, and in that case, the best course of action is to evade, flee, and avoid. It's a strategy.

Now if the same 'mech is facing only owning two cap points with a 300 point gap against them, outnumbered 3:1.. hiding in this case isn't strategy. Because you are no longer trying to win, do damage, or engage the enemy. You're just avoiding a fight and that's where non-participation rules come in.

It's a very, very clear divide.

Edited by Victor Morson, 19 August 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Appogee, on 19 August 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

There's no correlation between ''not being selfish'' and ''being a poor tactician''. But then, as there's really no good defence for being selfish and a poor team player, I guess you must resort to making stuff like that up.

Personally, I preferred it when you explained how you didn't care at all about any of your team members' game experience. At least that was honest.

Actually, no, your values are between you and your family and friends, and I don't need any self-affirmation of mine. I am engaged in this thread because I'd like to have people on my team who try their best to make the team win, and not skulk off, hide, power down, disconnect or opt out of the match early, because ''they don't care about randoms and owe nothing to anyone''.

Actually, it's your own words that shame you.

You seemed to have missed the part where I'm stripped and nearly dead the VERY RARE times that I have done this and the enemy is ALREADY CAPPING. But you are out to prove your point no matter what and are willing to personally attack me to do it. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm selfish because to some degree every human is. That you don't acknowledge that means your deluded. Everything you do is self-motivated in some way. Like right now you are motivated by your self-interest in having a team get you that extra assist, or end the game quicker. Btw I'm so selfish I bought a sarah's jenner, even though I have close to a hundred thousand c-bills to buy a jenner-d and enough gxp to master the thing outright. But you know why I did that? Because I felt good for donating. Total self-interest. Don't give me that BS about helping the community, if you didn't enjoy this game you wouldn't give a crap about this community. Its all about self-interest.

Plus we are talking about a video-game for chrissake.

For you to have the right to criticize me you need to be not selfish at all. Thats where my example comes in. If the rest of my team is dead and the enemy is capping IMO it is a poor strategic decision for me to rush out and die. Same as you following the lone wolf into the enemy line. Maybe a single mech will find me and ill just have to fight him alone, or maybe I have no weapons and know I can't outcap the enemy, so why should I just go and get myself killed when I succeed in pulling away from the brawl in a broken shell of a mech. Surviving in itself is a fun achievement for me. But you are selfish here because you wish for me to just go out and die so you can get your mech quicker, or you and your buddies can get that extra kill assist. Sry buddy, maybe you shouldn't have gotten yourself killed.

Like I said in my first post, which you must have just glanced over, I've died countless times for the good of the team when I thought it was worth it, but I'm not going to do so when it is pointless, especially if said teams friendly fire crippled me in the first place. I've played almost 7000 matches and hid maybe 10 or so times powered down. I'm often the first guy in leading the charge, and have coordinated pugs to follow. But im a sad person because I like to play the game how I want to and not how you want me to.

You somehow seem to think I'm not trying my best to make my team win but when there is nothing I can do to make the team win I see no reason to go out and get myself killed for people I don't know, and screw your medium laser assist.

You say my words shame me, but I'm not ashamed. Your words also do not shame me. Thats why I'm being honest about how I play. Now your the only one who seems to have a problem with that. But yet you continue to directly attack me.

Now I have once again explained how I sometimes do hide when my team scr.ewed me, and the game is about to end anyway. If my team deserved my sacrifice maybe they shouldnt have shot my mech to pieces. I guarantee you every time I did hide I had close to the highest score, so honestly buddy, Frak off.

I'm still not convinced your not trying to make yourself feel like a better person then me, because if you werent trying to you would lay off the personal attacks and make a coherent argument for why I in a crippled mech with no weapons and no chance of winning should rush in against a team of 11 guys.

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 19 August 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[Appogee]

You seem to have forgotten what you said earlier...

AvatarofWhat, on 06 August 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

...a few times I've been pissed off enough at my teams incompetence that I've went off and hid, especially if I know the enemy is already capping the base. If im the only one who was doing any damage and my team nearly cored me with friendly fire, you know what, screw them. they can wait. ... if your sheer incompetence is going to ruin my fun i dont really mind if i waste a minute or two of your life. call me selfish if you want but thats how i feel.

That's quite different to ''I'm in a crippled Mech with no weapons and no chance of winning'', isn't it. But in any case, here are some reasons why I and your team would appreciate you not hiding and powering down.

1. To save everyone else from the tedium of having to wait around doing nothing til the match eventually ends.
2. If you have a single weapon left, your dying shot may land the killer blow which nets you and some of your team CBills and XP.
3. If you have a single team mate left, you may be able to divide the enemy forces and give him a chance to get a kill, or shield him and absorb some of the damage that would otherwise have killed him.
4. If you are close to their base and the remaining enemies are all Assaults, you may still be able to cap before they cap your base.

Sure, most of the time we try and fail in these desperate end game scenarios. However, every now and then, we achieve something useful for the team, and on rare occasions we pull off an epic victory for the team. But at least we're not making other people wait around to preserve our (quite meaningless) ''delivered last blow to death'' ratios.

Anyway, hopefully I have both answered your question and given you pause to reflect.

Edited by Appogee, 19 August 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Appogee, on 19 August 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

You seem to have forgotten what you said earlier...



That's quite different to ''I'm in a crippled Mech with no weapons and no chance of winning'', isn't it. But in any case, here are some reasons why I and your team would appreciate you not hiding and powering down.

1. To save everyone else from the tedium of having to wait around doing nothing til the match eventually ends.
2. If you have a single weapon left, your dying shot may land the killer blow which nets you and some of your team CBills and XP.
3. If you have a single team mate left, you may be able to divide the enemy forces and give him a chance to get a kill, or shield him and absorb some of the damage that would otherwise have killed him.
4. If you are close to their base and the remaining enemies are all Assaults, you may still be able to cap before they cap your base.

Sure, most of the time we try and fail in these desperate end game scenarios. However, every now and then, we achieve something useful for the team, and on rare occasions we pull off an epic victory for the team. But at least we're not making other people wait around to preserve our (quite meaningless) ''delivered last blow to death'' ratios.

Anyway, hopefully I have both answered your question and given you pause to reflect.

No you haven't.

You are a very selective reader. Maybe you missed the part where I said I have fun trying to survive. For the last time stop trying to tell me how to play the game. You are not succeding.

1. I dont care about giving you the extra assist you dont deserve and that is almost certain i wont get anyway. If an enemy is about cored and I do have some weapons and he's by himself, feel free to tell me, I never said I wont act upon good intel.

2. I dont care about making the team wait(and neither do I have proof that most of the team cares either, no one complained) when the enemy is about to win anyway, and they can easily drop in another mech, go watch a youtube video, post here on the forums, or anything else.

3. Never have I said I have done this when I had a single teammate left.

4. Finally If I think I have a chance to cap win Ill try it, but like I said most of those times (which once again are about 10 out of 7000 matches) that I hide the enemy was already capping and I could not outcap them, nor could I force them from my base.

You made incorrect assumptions about me and started to personally attack me based on those assumptions. Like you assumed my nearly cored mech had weapons left, or wasnt legged. Like you assume the reason I do this is solely for k/d, even though I said I only care a little bit about it in my first post(after all I play 12 man all the time which skews my k/d way low). Even though I said after I enjoy trying to survive in a crippled mech. Like you assume I have even the smallest chance to take on 11 mechs in my crippled one.

If you really have nothing better to do then harrass me for the 1 in 700 times I decide to hide because I think I have no chance at just maybe getting 1 kill and my team isnt worth the effort(because once again, friendly fire) , then I suggest you get a life.

I'm content just knowing that my team will be better off with me in it the 95% of other players, and if that means that very occassionally one very vocal stranger will harass me so be it.

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 19 August 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[-Muta-]

[color=#959595]In fact just yesterday our team got rolled 11-0 and the last guy in our team was going to hide having 7 minutes left on the clock... Guess what, I called out his position causing him to rage (loled at him) [/color]

[color=#959595]He called me an A--hole, I called him a noob KDR-etard.[/color]

[color=#959595]Expect me to call out your position if you try to hide and remember that you can always report me if you dont like it.[/color]

[AvatarofWhat]

Mutaroc, on 19 August 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

In fact just yesterday our team got rolled 11-0 and the last guy in our team was going to hide having 7 minutes left on the clock... Guess what, I called out his position causing him to rage (loled at him)

He called me an A--hole, I called him a noob KDR-etard.

So rather then telling the enemy to cap and end it quickly you encourage the kdr-etards on the other team to go and chase him down prolonging it even more. And not only that but you flaunt breaking the rules. You seem like a nice fellow.

edit- nice job liking your own post btw

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 19 August 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[-Muta-]

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

So rather then telling the enemy to cap and end it quickly you encourage the kdr-etards on the other team to go and chase him down prolonging it even more. And not only that but you flaunt breaking the rules. You seem like a nice fellow.

edit- nice job liking your own post btw

If I write it I like it!

PS: thnx for your attention.

[Victor Morson]

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

So you say that hiding while not trying to achieve victory is a violation of the rules. But you say in your first post they have no chance of winning, and then you violate the rules by bird-******* them? So basically you are telling them to suicide, which violates another rule. Get you story straight...

READ THE THREAD.

Mutaroc, on 19 August 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

[color=#959595]In fact just yesterday our team got rolled 11-0 and the last guy in our team was going to hide having 7 minutes left on the clock... Guess what, I called out his position causing him to rage (loled at him) [/color]

[color=#959595]He called me an A--hole, I called him a noob KDR-etard.[/color]

[color=#959595]Expect me to call out your position if you try to hide and remember that you can always report me if you dont like it.[/color]

As stated, don't do this.

Because running off and hiding with no intention of trying to win is a violation of the non-participation rules. Report them instead.

It is an older rule than bird ******* by a long shot.

[Apparently that word is somehow censored? Is it some horrible slang for something I'm totally unaware of?]

Edited by Victor Morson, 19 August 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[Appogee]

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

You are a very selective reader. Maybe you missed the part where I said I have fun trying to survive.

No, I read all of your post. It included you proclaiming ''a few times I've been pissed off enough at my teams incompetence that I've went off and hid... you know what, screw them. they can wait. ... if your sheer incompetence is going to ruin my fun i dont really mind if i waste a minute or two of your life. call me selfish if you want but thats how i feel.''

Usually doing good things doesn't excuse you from occasionally doing bad things.

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

1. I dont care about giving you the extra assist you don't deserve

You have constructed a fantasy world in your head in which I and others all play badly, to try to justify your selfish behavior. It's not the case... but in any case, it's irrelevant. You are responsible for your own behavior and attitudes, not other people.

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

I dont care about making the team wait(and neither do I have proof that most of the team cares either, no one complained) when the enemy is about to win anyway, and they can easily drop in another mech, go watch a youtube video, post here on the forums, or anything else.

I've never seen a team not complain about someone being selfish and powering down and making them wait for no reason. If they drop in another Mech because they can't be bothered waiting for you, they lose several end of game bonuses. Further, waiting for you is locking up whatever Mech they are trying to level.

AvatarofWhat, on 19 August 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

You made incorrect assumptions about me

I have responded to your specific words, which are there for all to see.

Edited by Appogee, 19 August 2013 - 11:42 PM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Appogee, on 19 August 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

I have responded to your specific words, which are there for all to see.

You are so delusional... lol. I dont even know how to respond to someone so far out there. You pick only a few things to respond to, drop the rest, and even then ignore much of what I have said concerning what you do respond to.

You know what? Ok whatever you say. I'm a horrible person and you are a saint. Clearly I deserve to be singled out by you. Feel good about yourself? Am I going to change the way I play after your countless personal attacks? I'll let you figure that out.