3 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

This is not a nerf 2x Recharge thread. It's just a discussion about 2x Recharge gameplay dynamics and 'Mechs. In my view it is why Mechs in MWO are more prone to group-fire and center torso hits than in previous MechWarrior games where this is not an issue. Read on please.

So, if you played previous MechWarrior games you know the normal recharge on large weapons is 6-8 seconds. MWO has doubled the recharge rates on most weapons and doubled the armor values to compensate. That's fine if it get's better supported.

However, when recharge rates are 6-8 seconds on large weapons you know or learn to countdown the seconds on your opponent's weapon recharge and at the point they recharge you turn away and take the hit to an arm or side torso. And 50-60% of the time you succeed and this bit of ace piloting buys you 6-8 seconds of free-fire time until the next round. This makes mechs much harder to bring down by Center Torso destruction. Cored.

When you raise the recharge to 2-4 seconds or less it mostly removes this ability since it may take 2-3 seconds to aim. So in MWO mechs just face-off and core each other, unless you can manuver around obstacles or something. And not surprisingly, most players hate being cored so quickly.

In light of this, one adjustment to make Mechs work better with 2x Recharge could be to increase CT armor values 10-20%. You could also overlap hitboxes making a hit on two mech sections a possibility.

Anyway, 2xRecharge changes the gameplay dynamics of MechWarrior by much more than doubling the armor can counter. Mechs just get their CT's blown out in seconds and fixing this directly with tougher Mechs is probably the easiest solution.

Or, go to normal 6-8 second recharge and let the players defend their own Center Torsos from being cored.

Edited by Lightfoot, 05 August 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Most big guns are at 4s right now, so plenty of time to twist, aim, fire, and twist. Good players do it all the time.

That said, balancing long range high damage weapons at least partially around fire rate is something I've been a proponent of for a long time (for that matter, all weapon categories would benefit by some RoF tweaks).

Brawling weapons in general should reload faster, sniper weapons in general should reload more slowly. Obviously there are exceptions, such as the AC2 (which is only good because of its fire rate), and the AC20 (which would be way too good if it reloaded any faster).

The PPC, ERPPC, Gauss, SRMs, and Pulse weapons all could use some changes. The first three should probably have their RoF reduced by another small step (quarter or half second maybe). SRMs need a RoF increase (and have SSRMs reload a minimum of half a second more slowly than their standard counterparts to help promote SRMs as real brawling weapons). Pulse weapons need better RoF, but it should come at least partially by means of shorter burn times (which PGI seems already to be pushing live soon).

Having long range high damage weapons fire more slowly makes them less useful in short-range combat. When the cycle time on a "sniper" weapon is the same as that on a brawling weapon, though (the SRM6 is 4s to reload), then you start to run into problems where sniper builds are just as good in a knife fight as they are at shooting targets down range. When a sniper can out-brawl a brawler you have a problem.

The boost to SRM damage went a long way to fixing the sniper-in-brawl issue (and hit registration fixes will likely help even more as SRMs are currently some of the most-impacted weapons in the game), but I'd still like to see SRMs generally get a slight rate of fire boost and PPCs, ERPPCs, and Gauss Rifles get a slight RoF reduction.

[Lightfoot]

I just don't see this in the game. No one ever turns away from me in a battle unless they are trying to quit the exchange. It's just a face-off to see which mech gets cored first. Four seconds is not enough time to turn away is what is actually the dynamic. You can turn away, but you can't turn back, aim, fire, and turn away again in the 2-3 seconds left. Or at least, not many players can.

I am not saying get rid of 2x Recharge. Just pointing out what is happening differently from earlier MechWarrior games. Earlier MechWarrior games had no problem with group-fire of much greater weapon groups. 5xLarge Lasers, 2x LBX20, 3x UAC 10's all very balanced. No heat scale penalty required, no DHS 1.4 nerf. Mechs all took spread damage because the pilots shielded their Center Torso area by keeping face-offs to a minimum.

2xRecharge forces those face-offs to be the normal gameplay in MWO. So players complain about anything that Cores their mechs.

Obviously to have 2x Recharge they need to make the Mech's CT tougher somehow while keeping it balanced because next on the hit list is Legs. Heat scaling group fire won't work, it actually increases face-to-face weapons firing and Mech coring.

[Lightfoot]

The condensed version is that Double Recharge is why your mech gets cored in MWO instead of having the major damage spread across the mech.

2-4 second recharge is not enough time to turn away from your opponent when they fire and then turn back and fire. So mechs just face-off and aim for the center torso. This is what is new in MWO and did not happen in previous MechWarrior games.

This is actually what needs to be fixed. More Center Torso armor or longer recharge? Overlapping hitboxes? Oddly the Heat Scale for grouped weapons just increases the time Mechs spend face to face.

Edited by Lightfoot, 05 August 2013 - 07:29 PM.