75 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Veranova, on 06 August 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

This is a really good point.
I feel like half the reason the game can seem so broken right now, is because lots of features which are needed to complete it are missing.
Nothing PGI is doing is short term, changes like this are thinking of the long term meta.

Not great for us right now. But it will save them time in rebalancing the game when the new features get added, if they've already estimated the balance.
And long term. That's a good thing for those currently frustrated. Remember ECM. They added that having not thought about it heavily in advance and it shook the whole game up for a while. Big backlash while they rebalanced the game around it. These days it's much better.

The thing is they shouldn't have to be rebalancing the game around their changes. This should have been extensively tested prior to being put into game and only require a few minor tweeks.

As far as the economy, they have had months and month to adjust the rewards up or down on the economy to tweak it to where they want it so it shouldn't be necessary for a major tweek at this point.

Additionally if they had tested extensively, they would see that while perhaps some players could score a major payday with the old rewards, the average player would not be doing so and any reduction would mean that 90% of the playerbase was going to experience a massive hit to their reward earnings.

I mean testing would have shown that the average earned before was say 150k per match and that with the change, it is now 100k per match which should have thrown up a red flag that their idea behind the reductions was not going to work as intended and maybe they need to address the problem, the reward for a kill assist, not all rewards.

Lastly, testing would have prevented them implementing a change that could be taken as a underhanded, greed motivated change designed to get more people to purchse premium subscriptions while appearing and pretending it is due to an adjustment for a new game mode. Whether that is what happened or not your playerbase feeling like it happend, posting that they feel like it happened, telling friends that they feel like it happend, is just a very, very bad situation for a game developer to be in.

People just don't like underhanded tricks and if the devs get a reputation, deserved or undeserved of doing this, it could mean the difference between success or failure. Trust it very important because your not going to stick with a game you don't trust for long.

[Purlana]

Hans Von Lohman, on 06 August 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I am watching the NGNG twitch.TV for Tuesday and they had Russ Bullock as their guest.

Early on in the video they asked Russ about the money they make and they said they had to reduce the C-bills because of the 12 mechs on the field. The C-bills needed adjusting because kill assists were adding up to ridiculous amounts of money if you just tag every enemy once.

Best solution? Cap kills / assist bonuses at 8, GG PGI I fixed the problem!

Edited by Purlana, 06 August 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[Chronojam]

Viktor Drake, on 06 August 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

So basically instead of concerntrating on the enemy in front of me to take him out of the game, I should just run around and shoot every one of them once. Do the Devs even play this game? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of and to think the system now encourges it, are you fricken serious.

I have a marvel idea. If the amount you recieve for kill assists is too high, REDUCE THE AMOUNT FOR KILL ASSISTS.

Instead they break the entire economy to fix that one asspect....UN-FRICKEN-BELIEVABLE!!

This is literally how the address problems, by creating more in a quixotic attempt to squish some nagging issue nobody else really minded.

[KhanHeir]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 August 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

The Logic was to get players to work together. It was a dumb idea doomed to failure... bu we already knew that.

OH REALLY JO MELON, TELL US WHEN EARLIER YOU WERE DEFENDING THIS TODAY?

WAS THAT YOUR POSITION MELON?

[Sug]

Hans Von Lohman, on 06 August 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

The C-bills needed adjusting because kill assists were adding up to ridiculous amounts of money if you just tag every enemy once.

Which almost no one does...

[Royalewithcheese]

Wow, PGI is almost as amazing at structuring incentives as they are at their own game.

[Bhael Fire]

Basically, because their method for defining Kill Assists is borked we all make less money for actual KIlls now?

Logic.

[Khobai]

Quote

Basically, because their method for defining Kill Assists is borked we all make less money for actual KIlls now?

Kills and Assists should be worth the same amount. You shouldnt get anymore money just because you got the last hit in. Especially if someone else did most of the work.

But getting 4 kills in a match and still getting less than 100k is ridiculous. I have to get 5 kills just to break 100k!

[Ph30nix]

Hans Von Lohman, on 06 August 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I am watching the NGNG twitch.TV for Tuesday and they had Russ Bullock as their guest.

Early on in the video they asked Russ about the money they make and they said they had to reduce the C-bills because of the 12 mechs on the field. The C-bills needed adjusting because kill assists were adding up to ridiculous amounts of money if you just tag every enemy once.

So, yes. There is a C-bill reduction, but you make it back with kill assists.

ummm assists are like 7500 cbills right? cant remember off the top of my head, so the possibility of an extra 30k cbills is horrible? OMG NOOOOOOO!!!

[Bhael Fire]

Khobai, on 06 August 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Kills and Assists should be worth the same amount. You shouldnt get anymore money just because you got the last hit in. Especially if someone else did most of the work.

But getting 4 kills in a match and still getting less than 100k is ridiculous. I have to get 5 kills just to break 100k!

No. Assists should not be worth the same as a kill, unless the assist actually did more damage than the kill.

Running around tagging mechs for a few points of damage all over the map should NEVER count as a "kill assist" — as obvious as that sounds. That's even more true now than ever before.

That was my point; It makes no sense to punish players just because of one aspect of a poorly thought-out reward system.

I don't have time to diatribe about how messed up the reward system is in this game, but this new turn of events is prompting me to make it priority.

[OneEyed Jack]

Khobai, on 06 August 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

4) Other games reward/penalize players for following/not following commander orders. For example, in some games you have to request money from the commander to buy a vehicle, but if you continually disobey orders the commander wont give you any money.

Oh wouldn't it be fun to see what happened if they tried to penalize people for ignoring the i d i o t that happened to first to click the take command button?

[HeavyRain]

I am going to try tagging everyone once with the jenner and see if it makes me more money than 5 kills in a heavy.

[Sephlock]

Roland, on 06 August 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Isn't it somewhat unlikely that in a 12v12 battle, you are actually going to be shooting every single mech on the enemy team?

Yes

Quote

Or do they really expect us to walk around as a single giant mob?

Yes

Quote

I thought the point of having 3 lances was that you'd likely break up that huge group somewhat, and have multiple engagements taking place.

Nope.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 06 August 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Kills and Assists should be worth the same amount. You shouldnt get anymore money just because you got the last hit in. Especially if someone else did most of the work.

But getting 4 kills in a match and still getting less than 100k is ridiculous. I have to get 5 kills just to break 100k!

Sounds like I will be doing well then. I get more assists then kills. I always have.

[StaIker]

Quote

And so on... the point is this game does almost nothing to encourage teamwork. It just sticks 12 randoms together and hopes for the best.

This is an important point I think, part of a larger failing in the game design. The Devs seem not to know the difference between playing ON a team and playing AS a team. Not only is there nothing in the game to help people play as a team, there are actually features which make it difficult and cumbersome and in some cases impossible.

In a shooter, ON and AS are almost the same thing, as the kills come a lot faster and there is no opportunity to combine fire when a headshot ends the matter in half a second. But this game is not that kind of shooter, it requires much more in the way of active cooperation to get the best results and it's something that has received little or no attention by PGI.

It is also a major reason why so many former team players from MW4 don't play this game. But PGI knows better than their customers I guess.

Edited by StaIker, 06 August 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[jakucha]

I've had so much money I honestly haven't paid attention to my round winnings for a month.

[Jungle Rhino]

If the introduction of Coolshot, Seismic, and soon 3PV hasn't already made it abundantly clear: PGI make most game design/balance decisions based on cashflow.

That is the fundamental problem with f2p games.

[StaIker]

Jungle Rhino, on 06 August 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

If the introduction of Coolshot, Seismic, and soon 3PV hasn't already made it abundantly clear: PGI make most game design/balance decisions based on cashflow.

That is the fundamental problem with f2p games.

What they haven't understood up till now is that their casflow is poor because they designed a version of Mechwarrior that the paying community wasn't interested in. They've picked the least popular game mode from the Mech4 days, for what reason I cannot imagine, and then imposed a system that keeps old league teams (the most dedicated core of players) out of the game by their stupid drop limitations and assorted team-unfriendly features.

If they were actually trying to screw up, they could hardly have done a better job of it.

[CarpetShark]

BOTA49, on 06 August 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

1042XP (2084 with the x2 bonus) and only 80,000 CBills for a win with 4 kills and 2 assists in a Jenner. That's just awful. I can understand lowering it, but they dropped it way more than I personally think they should have.

And now it'll only take you 62 of these 4 kill, 2 assist matches to buy that XL engine you've had your eye on. How delightfully fun! Thanks, PGI!

Edited by CarpetShark, 07 August 2013 - 05:49 AM.

[Cadodd]

110k CBills for a win on Canyon map, 2kills 4assist, 7 components desytroyed.
I couldnt shoot more becauses the team splited up, that way it was an interesting match, but next time I will not try to push my Flank, instead I will run over to the other half of my team to also get an assist mark on their enemies, that way I would have made more CBills even if we would have lost. (Salvage bonus was only 12k)
yes PGI working as intended! You guys didnt consider the fact that with the increased # of players its possible to split the teams up? but no your stupid change to the economy even forbids any other strategy, instead we are forced to make the brainless 12vs12 blobs, trying to hit every enemy at least once and the getting killed by your own team because you cant move anymore in the blob!
well done!