130 replies to this topic

[WardenWolf]

Mackensen, on 12 June 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

You get what you pay for. If Piranha cannot afford to pay for serious beta testing they obviously cannot expect top quality.

I don't think that is true! You can get plenty of quality from folks who *care* about a game and franchise. There are tons of us with extensive computer and gaming experience. And it sounds like Piranha is happy with the folks they have in the beta so far

[borisof007]

Yet Infinity Ward and Treyarch had millions to spend on QA and game changing bugs and glitches still made it into the final product (and are still being discovered). Just because a developer has money to spend on a QA Team (not taking away anything from Game QA professionals, they're awesome individuals for the most part) doesn't make the end product any better.

I'm sure Rovio didn't have a huge QA department when Angry Birds first came out and look at that. Same goes for Riot Games and League of Legends. They start out small and become huge giants. The F2P model allows this avalanche effect to happen over time more easily than other models.

[Mackensen]

WardenWolf, on 12 June 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

I don't think that is true! You can get plenty of quality from folks who *care* about a game and franchise. There are tons of us with extensive computer and gaming experience. And it sounds like Piranha is happy with the folks they have in the beta so far

I hope you are right. I remember playing Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries from Activision on my first PC ages ago. It was a very buggy game, crashing frequently! I hope this version will be much better.

[borisof007]

I think what the frustration here is, is that people are very very fanatical about this franchise and legacy. There's a ton of fans with a lot of lore and story that need to be taken into account and some people really want to get their hands on it to make it better, some want to play for the sake of playing an awesome mechwarrior game. Both are great things and we need to respect that. Piranah games COULD have tried to go the closed QA department route and maybe it would have worked, maybe not. The point being is that this game WILL come out, it WILL be awesome, and we will ALL enjoy it together!

We just need to be patient for only a tiny bit longer. Compared to the wait from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2, mechwarrior fans have had it ....easier I guess is the best way to say it. Won't say it's been easy, but not as bad as it could have been.

I apologize if I seem upset or in a bad mood, watched a referee make a non-call and then a huge knee jerk reaction back to back last night that spoiled my teams chances at the Stanley Cup (go devils!).

[Master Q]

Russ Bullock, on 12 June 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

I think your concern might be a little misplaced, yes there have been some NDA violaters but it is a mere handful of the thousands playing the game. For the vast majority of beta testers they are playing, putting in huge hours doing so and are effectively finding and reporting bugs. I agree with you this IS MechWarriors last big hope to re-establish the brand going forward. We really do take it that serious and understand the ramifications for both the brand and our company. I'm sure the days feel like they are just dragging by as you wait, trust me I feel the same way not to play because I get that honor but to release it! I really want this game to be out there, but I must remain patient for a while longer.

Russ,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. It may seem like a small thing but that does mean something, I've been in beta and testing environments where nobody ever bothered to respond to anything at all.

I really do hope that MWO does well. It's been far too long for Mechwarrior.

[Norrin]

Glory, on 12 June 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

I have never seen a Beta for a game before that had this many people feeling this entitled about their right to be selected. O_o

Really? I sure have LOL... In fact, any game of significance in the last 10 years that I can think of had the same complaints and whining thru the Beta stages... some even more so I think (and several with MANY more NDA breaches). It's just the world we live in today. Everything is about the "what's in it for me?" and the whole world revolves around me mentality.

[Warskull]

Major Tom, on 12 June 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

actually its a job with responsibilitiies. Which is exactly why it shouldn't be random.

People are inherently self interested. Ask anyone who wants in the beta who should be selected and they will tell you to use criteria that favor them. The simple truth is that there is no decent criteria for finding high quality testers. If they devs personally know someone to be good at this kind of thing, they can give them an invite, but they probably did that already with friends and family. The rest of them you have to use a random method and hope for the best.

People can argue that more forum posts, playing the all the previous mechwarrior games, knowing the tabletop, ect. would all make them a better beta tester. In the end, it doesn't. People are bad at judging their own skill and knowledge, plus none of this really makes you a better beta tester than someone who hasn't done those things.

The best thing the devs can do is randomly invite players and start to develop relationships with the ones they recognize as higher quality testers. You then give those people some keys in the hopes their friends are higher quality testers.

Master Q, on 12 June 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

You got a chance to really help Pirahna make MWO shine and bring Mechwarrior itself back from the land of dead, rescue it from all the damage certain people did to the brand years before. Please, treat it as such. Take it seriously, ok?

They are likely to have good testers in with the bad testers. The best you can do is hope the developer knows what they are doing.

There was once this game called Fury. They hired a former Guild Wars player with a competitive background to be their Community Manager. He made sure to get a number of competitive Guild Wars players who knew what they were talking about to help test the game, they were ideal testers because Fury was striving to be a competitive RPG game. All the testers were warning the developer that the changes being made were making the game worse. The developer chose to ignore them. The game turned out awful and took the whole company under. Heck, the Community Manager would have been a better person to choose the direction of the game (he also warned them how bad they were screwing up) as the designers and producers had no idea what they were doing.

It all boils down to the developer. A bad developer will either ignore the good feedback and use their own flawed judgement or listen to the bad feedback. A good developer is able to recognize which suggestions are good and which are bad. They know how to use their resources as best possible. So it is all on PGI's shoulders.

So far PGI hasn't given any red flags and the videos look reasonable. So we'll see.

Edited by Warskull, 12 June 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[CompleteTanker]

Russ Bullock, on 12 June 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

I agree with you this IS MechWarriors last big hope to re-establish the brand going forward.

No pressure

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

Oh, this thread again - give it a rest.

[brn4meplz]

Having participated in closed Beta's for several titles(all of which I'm still under NDA for because of the legal wording) It is next to impossible to change the game from a design perspective. The most you can reliably effect is balance and bugs.

Inputs on design can be taking into future releases or expansions for a product but with MWO being an online, F2P game it would function differently. F2P games rarely see a large systemic overhaul.

There are probably tons of people making constructive feedback about MWO in the closed beta and probably finding lots of bugs and doing the server stress testing. I'm sure PGI has a bunch of stuff they still want to get into the product by release as well.

However, to assume that people don't feel honoured because they have negative things to say about the game is also ignorant. Simply because you can't change core design at this late stage of the process without significant delays.

[Norrin]

Mackensen, on 12 June 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

You get what you pay for. If Piranha cannot afford to pay for serious beta testing they obviously cannot expect top quality.

Nothing could be further from the truth!! Do you know what "REAL" paid beta testers do every day? They play any and every kind of game you can imagine - often things designed for like 5 year old children and make sure that no BIG bugs exist like getting stuck on objects or walking through walls, etc. Almost all of the harder to find bugs are obtained in beta by regular people. That is why all games have some form of beta testing with the "general public".

[Teralitha]

TheRulesLawyer, on 12 June 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I'm most concerned that random distribution of keys will have an overabundance of people with little to no familiarity with Battletech. This will lead to many suggestions based on non-canon performance of weapons and mechs during the critical tuning phase. Which in turn leads us towards yet another mechwarrior game that doesn't feel like proper battletech. I just hope that the devs remain committed to sticking as close to canon as possible in the face of that feedback.

If your focus is solely on making BT fans happy with this game, then you would be making a foolish mistake. If you truly want this game to be a huge hit, you need to have aspects that appeal to the rest of the masses, as a game, and have features that keep them playing it for years to come. Being solely based on BT ruleset, will NOT do that, Im sorry to say. I love BT but this is the cold hard truth of it.

So all you hardcore rules lawyers need to cool it. Your ways will ruin the long term success of this game.

Edited by Teralitha, 12 June 2012 - 10:31 AM.

[Hawkeye 72]

So that's about how long it took? 3 weeks since they even announced the closed beta, and 18 days since invites were first sent out, and this is the level of malcontent on the forums already?

I think this game is being taken very seriously, and the amount of new people jumping on these forums and complaining is getting absurd. I have only been around for 3 months myself, and can assure you this game is very serious.

That is not a jab at Master Q, who thanked Russ for his incredibly and unnecessary prompt reply. This is just an overall statement at the abundance of threads that complain about Beta keys.

Most games don't even welcome in fans for a Closed Beta. An Open Beta is reserved for the masses. And I feel Beta has become synonymous with "playable working title in full release"

Let's just settle down with the fire and brimstone, and thank Master Q for posting this in a calm and respectful manner

As for NDA breakers...well Inouye Man deals with them...

[Wiley Coyote]

autogyro, on 12 June 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

You know what I love the most?

That the President of Piranha Games is the second reply to this thread to assuage your fears that the developers might not be taking beta testing seriously enough.

If that doesn't show the dedication that PGI have to developing a true Mechwarrior title, I don't know what does.

He could have shown more dedication if he brought cookies as well. Or cake, cake would work too.

[Moksha Raver]

I've never been in any kind of Beta so I completely understand not getting picked. If I do, I'll give my all. If not, I'll wait patiently for a game I know is going to be good!!! I think PGI is doing a great job and working at the right pace. If the fans don't get what they expect, you know there will be hell to pay!!! I'd rather wait a few extra months than get a game that is too buggy! Keep up the good work and keep introducing new mechs!!!

[PANZERBUNNY]

Master Q, on 12 June 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

But here goes.

I'm a little frustrated by the way beta keys are being handed out, and I'm sure many other people are as well. I know the devs say the only fair way is to do it random (plus their usual "friends and family" grouping), regardless of system spec. If I don't hit the beta-key lottery, so be it. I can deal with frustration if I trust there's a good game coming and a good team of beta-testers doing their job, testing well, and not holding back exploits for their own use later or otherwise tilting the system too hard.

What is annoying me is how unseriously this seems to be taken, though. MWO is a chance for Mechwarrior, and actual simulation games, to come back. It's a big chance and a big leap after the damage done to the concept, the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise, and the overall Mech games idea by over a decade in which all we had to work with was *shudder* MechAssault, Chromehounds, and Armored-Core level garbageware.

And now with this beta, it sometimes seems like the beta isn't a beta at all, it's a cheesy word-of-mouth campaign. A whole lot of people breaking NDA. It's making me lose that faith about the coming game a little. It's actually making me less inclined to go for the Founder's Pack, and I already had the 60 bucks set aside a month ago.

If you got into the beta, you got an honor. You got a chance to really help Pirahna make MWO shine and bring Mechwarrior itself back from the land of dead, rescue it from all the damage certain people did to the brand years before. Please, treat it as such. Take it seriously, ok?

BETA an honour? Really?

Playing a game,you may or may not be reporting bugs in, not having full access to all features? (Most isolate what people are testing in closed. Who knows what they are doing here.)

This game is coming out soon no matter what.

Chill.

[RG Notch]

Major Tom, on 12 June 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

actually its a job with responsibilitiies. Which is exactly why it shouldn't be random.

Yeah it should be based on number of posts on the forums or the lies people tell on their Beta application of how much they care about the franchise, their beta experience or how much BT minutiae one knows. Personally, I'll take random over that nonsense. I notice a lot of complaints about how beta selection works, from folks not selected...hmmmm

[Aegis Kleais]

Master Q, on 12 June 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

But here goes.

I'm a little frustrated by the way beta keys are being handed out, and I'm sure many other people are as well. I know the devs say the only fair way is to do it random (plus their usual "friends and family" grouping), regardless of system spec. If I don't hit the beta-key lottery, so be it. I can deal with frustration if I trust there's a good game coming and a good team of beta-testers doing their job, testing well, and not holding back exploits for their own use later or otherwise tilting the system too hard.

What is annoying me is how unseriously this seems to be taken, though. MWO is a chance for Mechwarrior, and actual simulation games, to come back. It's a big chance and a big leap after the damage done to the concept, the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise, and the overall Mech games idea by over a decade in which all we had to work with was *shudder* MechAssault, Chromehounds, and Armored-Core level garbageware.

And now with this beta, it sometimes seems like the beta isn't a beta at all, it's a cheesy word-of-mouth campaign. A whole lot of people breaking NDA. It's making me lose that faith about the coming game a little. It's actually making me less inclined to go for the Founder's Pack, and I already had the 60 bucks set aside a month ago.

If you got into the beta, you got an honor. You got a chance to really help Pirahna make MWO shine and bring Mechwarrior itself back from the land of dead, rescue it from all the damage certain people did to the brand years before. Please, treat it as such. Take it seriously, ok?

The thing is, even once MWO goes gold, it's still an Minimum Viable Product which can have subsequent features patched out to it at regular intervals. PGI can make more Mechs, Tech, Maps, Game Modes, Promos, etc and with a modular content delivery system, we can keep moving the game forward.

I plan on doing an in-depth write up, even though I won't be in the early-access Beta (and possibly the Founder's Beta) Feedback is usually very useful in such a project at any stage of its development. If enough people have similar feelings towards gameplay aspects as you do, chances are PGI will address it.

[CeeKay Boques]

Glory, on 12 June 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

I have never seen a Beta for a game before that had this many people feeling this entitled about their right to be selected. O_o

I can't help it, Battletech becomes a part of you... after years of TT, and mechwarrior and leagues, you just feel... as if you helped build the universe. You made it what it is. Alll the suggestions you pour out... And when some random guy who... doesn't even know what a heat sink is gets in, it just hurts.

Sure its not real, you didn't really make it what it is, but when you're a stars biggest fan, posters on the wall... I know none of that has to do with the Beta RNG selector, Its not rational, its emotional!

[wanderer]

Gotti, on 12 June 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

That's where the pain point is for us. Is seeing and knowing the people who are breaking the NDA are the very ones who were selected who should not have been. Meanwhile, those of us who really do care, are seemingly left out in the cold when the value to _you_ folks is not being fully realized.

That's all we are saying.

For every NDA-breaker, there will be dozens of honest testers that are doing their best to make the game better for open beta, and those in turn will make it better for the actual rollout. What's behind the scenes would back that up if it wasn't hidden behind the NDA's, I'd guess.