129 replies to this topic

[travelbug]

Aastarius, on 12 August 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Think I have to disagree with this, as splitting the games further will likely to lead to ever increasing wait queues.

In theory, we are already going to be splitting into regions (actually hoping this is sooner rather than later), and that's in addition to 1PV vs 3PV queues.

If you want shorter cues then you need more players. And with the changes made by pgi in the last last major patch, including 12v12, the game just got a lot tougher for new players. The cue itself is not the problem, the player base is.

Oh and it take 8v8 any day over 3pv. Splitting the cue for that gimmick is one of the most useless features we will have.

[Karenai]

OriginalTibs, on 08 August 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Having a K/D ratio higher than your win ratio is odd. You are either being capped too often or you are playing conquest in very slow assaults.

Every player on the team makes a difference.

You mean it is odd to kill more then one mech per game? As long as you kill at least one mech per game, your k/d will be higher then your w/l. My k/d is 6/1.3 (3.45) my w/l is 2/1, while pugging 90% of the time. Don't you mean the other way around? Having a higher w/l ratio then your k/d is odd? Because in that case you are beeing carried.

Concerning pugs/premades. IMHO as a pugger, even coordinated 4 man drops are not as easy to stop as they were in 8vs8. And full blown synch drops, yeah they still happen, are even worse. In 8vs8 if you knew those guys always run together, and which ones hit their targets, you tried to look for them and execute or at least counter them. Now those 4 guys pull the 8 other guys with them, leading them to a flanking move which destroys half of your troops before anyone in your team hits R. 12vs12 has more of a snowball effect and premades in it make it worse. And if you commit to killing that one guy who is realy good, his scrub friends will fry you in the mean time.
As long as your team has half a brain amongst them, your 4 man drop will stomp the pugs. The only way you can fail is by your own error, or if you realy hit the jackpot on pug elite aka scrubs.

I saw just one game since the 12vs12 patch in which we, the pugs, stopped a full blown synch drop. It was intense trench warfare on Forrest Colony, LRM crossing in the air ( I blindfired most of the time, trying to keep them at bay), my AMS ammo was gone in under 5 minutes. And by that time not even one mech had dropped. That is maybe the opposite effect of 12vs12, the pugs did not run into death but waited untill the barrage weakend. When the first synch drop mech dropped, the rest followed one by one, still taking over half of our men with them. And the only reason why they started to drop, was because their AMS ammo was gone, too. And we still had missiles to send them. Had they advanced, we would not have killed even one of them. The loss was by their own making.
In 8vs8 stopping a synchdrop was also a feat, but not uncommon.

[Brasticus]

Aceramic, on 11 August 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Single-player PuG'ing is not dead. In fact, it's all I do. Roughly 1,100 total matches, and I'd say... Maybe 100 of them were with 1-3 friends. Probably less.

I'm always in TS, but I'm always alone... Maybe I should find a public TS that actually has people in it. >.>

Comstar North America
Address: na1.mech-connect.net
Password: WordofBlake

First sticky in this forum.

edit: confounded color codes

Edited by Brasticus, 12 August 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[Enigmos]

Karenai, on 12 August 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

You mean it is odd to kill more then one mech per game? As long as you kill at least one mech per game, your k/d will be higher then your w/l. My k/d is 6/1.3 (3.45) my w/l is 2/1, while pugging 90% of the time. Don't you mean the other way around? Having a higher w/l ratio then your k/d is odd? Because in that case you are beeing carried.

Concerning pugs/premades. IMHO as a pugger, even coordinated 4 man drops are not as easy to stop as they were in 8vs8. And full blown synch drops, yeah they still happen, are even worse. In 8vs8 if you knew those guys always run together, and which ones hit their targets, you tried to look for them and execute or at least counter them. Now those 4 guys pull the 8 other guys with them, leading them to a flanking move which destroys half of your troops before anyone in your team hits R. 12vs12 has more of a snowball effect and premades in it make it worse. And if you commit to killing that one guy who is realy good, his scrub friends will fry you in the mean time.
As long as your team has half a brain amongst them, your 4 man drop will stomp the pugs. The only way you can fail is by your own error, or if you realy hit the jackpot on pug elite aka scrubs.

I saw just one game since the 12vs12 patch in which we, the pugs, stopped a full blown synch drop. It was intense trench warfare on Forrest Colony, LRM crossing in the air ( I blindfired most of the time, trying to keep them at bay), my AMS ammo was gone in under 5 minutes. And by that time not even one mech had dropped. That is maybe the opposite effect of 12vs12, the pugs did not run into death but waited untill the barrage weakend. When the first synch drop mech dropped, the rest followed one by one, still taking over half of our men with them. And the only reason why they started to drop, was because their AMS ammo was gone, too. And we still had missiles to send them. Had they advanced, we would not have killed even one of them. The loss was by their own making.
In 8vs8 stopping a synchdrop was also a feat, but not uncommon.

No, if you are getting many more kills than deaths but your teams are losing much more often than they win you aren't adequately supporting your team you are feeding off their efforts. The mech on point will be hit and killed more often. The ranging scout will get into trouble or the mech that evaluates as a greater threat will attract the heaviest fire. With over three thousand kills (3878: just checked) I don't think anyone can successfully argue I am often carried by my team, but I confess I die too often and it is not beneficial for my team when I get myself killed early, but I also often tie up four of the opposition while dying. I could hang back and let others take the hits and disconnect when it looks like the odds have turned against us and raise my K/D that way but I'm in the game to play it. If your teams win and you have a high K/D then more power to you. My teams more often win but I die a lot.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 12 August 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[White Bear 84]

I would love to have the occasional pug but then with 12v12 it is really important to have team coordination. Without team coordination the outcome of the battle is anyone's guess, sometimes you have a good pug round sometimes you dont. More often you probably wont. I have seen some stupid things in my time playing this game and will always pick group play over pugging when division members are present.

[travelbug]

OriginalTibs, on 12 August 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

No, if you are getting many more kills than deaths but your teams are losing much more often than they win you aren't adequately supporting your team you are feeding off their efforts.

i would say this is generally true for 8v8 but not necessarily so for 12v12. ive been in games where ive had 4-5 kills, 600+ damage and we lost, and many of my friends complain of such. if i had those stats in 8v8 there was almost no way our team would lose except through capping.

White Bear 84, on 12 August 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I would love to have the occasional pug but then with 12v12 it is really important to have team coordination. Without team coordination the outcome of the battle is anyone's guess, sometimes you have a good pug round sometimes you dont. More often you probably wont. I have seen some stupid things in my time playing this game and will always pick group play over pugging when division members are present.

12v12 is really meant to cater to clans/groups that can field a 12man, then there you will see more strategy and coordination since timing is such a key factor (and mistakes are punished by focused fire). for pugging, 12 man is still viable but you have to be resigned to the fact that the outcome will be more a function of matchmaker team make up, which you have no control over, as opposed to actual pilot skill- as my example above shows.

[White Bear 84]

travelbug, on 12 August 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

for pugging, 12 man is still viable but you have to be resigned to the fact that the outcome will be more a function of matchmaker team make up, which you have no control over, as opposed to actual pilot skill- as my example above shows.

Exactly this.

[Orchid Vein]

If anything, 12v12 pugs allow a new player to start the game with less individual combat initially. I am still new to this (like a week) and obviously have only done pugs. I played a couple days of 8 person matches and it was more 1v1 during base things. Now with 12v12 you have a chance just by sheer numbers to move with a few people and see focus fire in action.

Is it dead? Nope, just more of a gang fist brawl instead of a football game. xD

[DegeneratePervert]

Nearly exclusive pugging, my stats are as follows:

Kills / Deaths: 1,895 / 704

Experience Points: 1,151,153

Wins / Losses: 881 / 716

Wins / Losses Ratio: 1.23

Kill / Death Ratio: 2.69

Accumulative C-Bills Per Match: 140,184.65

Average XP Per Match: 720.82

Sometimes, I think that Pugging feels unbalanced because the defeats are so utterly crushing; It is my experience that I get rolled 75% of my losses, the other 25% are close games that are extremely fun. It feels like about 50% of my wins are close games, and 50% being steamrolls, but I cannot put a hard number on it, as I do not record every match. Based upon my stats, ELO is working as intended by providing a relatively balanced and fair matchmaking environment; in practice, it is often unfair, with noobs being thrown to the wolves while expecting experienced players to overcome impossible odds.

Just my $0.02.

[xengk]

I play pure PUG since Day 1, with occasional 2~4 man with buddies.

Playing PUG require even more situation awareness and tactical thinking, since you only have yourself to rely on. After so many drop, you can tell by experience where the push will be coming from in certain map and where is the best place to go to meet/avoid them depending on your mech build.
Assuming both side are pure PUG, everything is a throw of the dices. But I rarely see rolling after 12v12 been implemented. Outcome is still about 50/50, which I feel is fine since Im mostly a casual, the more competitive player might find this unbearable.

That Ace Pilot that can take out 4 enemy solo and carry the team is now outshine by a lance of average joe with focus fire. Taking out 4 mechs in 8v8 is a big deal because that is half of the enemy team, now it is only 1/3 and you often comes out in bad shape as easy picking by the remaining enemy.
I have seen plenty of match where 1 side is winning suddenly face a reversal from flanking mediums (gotta love them AC/20 HBK when they do this) or pushing too deep too fast and get pick off on enemy ground.

Communication still remains the key in any match, even in death you can still jump between survivor to observe what the player might been too tunnel visioned to notice and type out warnings.
The communication need not be elaborate or perfect, usually I drop message such as these
"d4 5 inc" "stk ats 2bj ?" "e3 ddc" "e6 lboat" "b3 flank inc"

Experience Points 1,224,476
Kills / Death 932 / 1,043
Kill / Death Ratio 0.89
Wins / Losses 869 / 941
Wins / Losses Ration 0.92
Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 129,216.09
Avg. XP Per Match 676.51

Not pretty, but I pilot primary medium mech and I value component destruction and kill assist over actual kill.
Neuter a target and move on to the next, let someone else finish him off. Since I have the speed to move between brawls and add my firepower to where it is needed.