129 replies to this topic

[Hexenhammer]

I've had playing pug, 4, 8 and 12 man teams. I enjoyed them all for different reasons. Is pug dead? I don't think so. Are queue times longer? Yes. Don't know if its people leaving or 12v12 games sucking up 50% of the player base.

[Thomas Covenant]

Communication tools will be added. My suggestion was to have some button commands.

battlefield heroes figured something out

Spoiler

http://mwomercs.com/...-aka-pug-tools/

mwo might do something along those lines to help the masses(of solo pugs)

[Thomas Covenant]

I heard some great suggestions.

The ability to say "attack my target" ping on map and letter appear.

Sos with map ping.

[travelbug]

0okami, on 07 August 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

yea great idea, I think we should listen to this bloke here.
Except for the one fact that this would split the que AGAIN.
Honestly this game cant even handle having the que being split when 3rd person arrives, so if we further split those 2 ques into 4 ques (2*2) then we might end up having 5-10 minutes ques for just one game xD
GmotherfernG

but thats exactly the underlying point of my op. let me explain.

almost every hardcore mw gamer(of past or present) is already in the game or has decided not to play it. in that sense, that particular demographic will very, very unlikely grow over time.

but the potential casual player base is huge and so is the potential to convert a casual gamer into a hardcore one. but if this is in fact the game we are having at launch with 12v12, performance issues, lack of servers outside north a, cbill nerfs, complicated concepts like heat scaling and groupings, and the grindy nature of game economy then i fail to see how new players can find this game fun, let alone worth investing time and money in.

yes my solution to divide the game into 8 and 12 would split the que even more but that just exposes another issue- limited number of players. even now you are probably seeing the same ign's during your play session and that just points to a limited pool players. the only real way to correct this is to have more players and from what i see, the game is unwittingly veering away from that direction.

also if you look around this thread the overwhelming 'advice' given is to get teamspeak/join a group/clan (which i am a part of actually). thats basically an admittance that yes pugging is hard especially now.

Edited by travelbug, 07 August 2013 - 07:05 PM.

[Sasha Volkova]

travelbug, on 07 August 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

but thats exactly the underlying point of my op. let me explain.

almost every hardcore mw gamer(of past or present) is already in the game or has decided not to play it. in that sense, that particular demographic will very, very unlikely grow over time.

but the potential casual player base is huge and so is the potential to convert a casual gamer into a hardcore one. but if this is in fact the game we are having at launch with 12v12, performance issues, lack of servers outside north a, cbill nerfs, complicated concepts like heat scaling and groupings, and the grindy nature of game economy then i fail to see how new players can find this game fun, let alone worth investing time and money in.

yes my solution to divide the game into 8 and 12 would split the que even more but that just exposes another issue- limited number of players. even now you are probably seeing the same ign's during your play session and that just points to a limited pool players. the only real way to correct this is to have more players and from what i see, the game is unwittingly veering away from that direction.

also if you look around this thread the overwhelming 'advice' given is to get teamspeak/join a group/clan (which i am a part of actually). thats basically an admittance that yes pugging is hard especially now.

Yes but my point still stands.
The game in its current state will have long ques when the playerbase is split due to 3rd person view with the ¨mixed¨ and ¨hardcore¨ ques.
Adding 2 other ques in each que will simply create waiting times that are unacceptable.
New players will more likely rage over the long waiting times between rounds than over the amount of players in the matches.
All the other issues you have presented in your above statement have nothing to do with pugs or really even 12v12 for that matter.

The thing is PGI/IGP must have some idea about what they think people would prefer aswell as some numbers indicating this (wow... I never thought I would jump to defend PGI/IGP like that ever...)

Edited by 0okami, 07 August 2013 - 07:10 PM.

[travelbug]

0okami, on 07 August 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Yes but my point still stands.
The game in its current state will have long ques when the playerbase is split due to 3rd person view with the ¨mixed¨ and ¨hardcore¨ ques.
Adding 2 other ques in each que will simply create waiting times that are unacceptable.
New players will more likely rage over the long waiting times between rounds than over the amount of players in the matches.
All the other issues you have presented in your above statement have nothing to do with pugs or really even 12v12 for that matter.

The thing is PGI/IGP must have some idea about what they think people would prefer aswell as some numbers indicating this (wow... I never thought I would jump to defend PGI/IGP like that ever...)

honestly id rather have 8/12 than 3pv which seems pointless since you dont have your hud in that view. just good for making videos and such

edit:
the other issues are there to show that the way the game is going is making it more and more difficult for new players to pick it up. and 12v12 and pugging are part of those issues.

Edited by travelbug, 07 August 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[Sasha Volkova]

travelbug, on 07 August 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

honestly id rather have 8/12 than 3pv which seems pointless since you dont have your hud in that view. just good for making videos and such

edit:
the other issues are there to show that the way the game is going is making it more and more difficult for new players to pick it up. and 12v12 and pugging are part of those issues.

OH do not doubt for one second that I would not prefer 8/12 over 3pv.
I am, still, against 3pv though I know it is a battle that is already over.
3pv IS comming and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it.
But seeing as that is etched in stone, I still fear the solution you suggest as it could end up crippling the already broken body of MWO even further.

[travelbug]

0okami, on 07 August 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

OH do not doubt for one second that I would not prefer 8/12 over 3pv.
I am, still, against 3pv though I know it is a battle that is already over.
3pv IS comming and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it.
But seeing as that is etched in stone, I still fear the solution you suggest as it could end up crippling the already broken body of MWO even further.

imho, bringing back an 8v8 cue is one of a few ways to get new players to come in which is the only real solution. as it stands, the game has already alienated some noobs, puggers, people without monster computers, and others dissapointed with gameplay mechanics.

you can try to appease your limited game base or get more players to play the game. to me the choice is crystal clear.

Edited by travelbug, 07 August 2013 - 07:38 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

I still pug. works just fine.

[Sasha Volkova]

travelbug, on 07 August 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

imho, it is one of a few ways to get new players to come in which is the only real solution. as it stands, the game has already alienated some noobs, puggers, people without monster computers, and others dissapointed with gameplay mechanics.

you can try to appease your limited game base or get more players to play the game. to me the choice is crystal clear.

Wait you lost me there, what exactly are you referring to now?
3pv?
8v8 and 12v12 modes?
You didnt post any specific things so your post became a lot of filler with no indication of what exactly you are pointing towards. :b

[Vanguard319]

Every time I have tried pugging since patch, my so-called "teammates" proceeded to charge into certain death like the lemmings they are, so yeah, pugging is dead

[travelbug]

0okami, on 07 August 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Wait you lost me there, what exactly are you referring to now?
3pv?
8v8 and 12v12 modes?
You didnt post any specific things so your post became a lot of filler with no indication of what exactly you are pointing towards. :b

changed it up for you

[WarGruf]

To be honest I enjoy Pugging.. Don't see a problem with it at all during my prime-time 6pm-2am GMT.

Sometimes reading the forums sounds like some people are playing a completely different game.

My answer is No not dead.

[Rando Slim]

Although I would certainly like an 8 queue and a 12 queue (and am against 3rd person completely, wtf man thats the FUN of MW is being in the cockpit) I think the player base is far healthier than people think, granted I have nothing to back that up other than the fact that I can find games at any time at all in the day and not have to wait for a game more than 15 or 20 seconds usually much quicker. Maybe it takes longer because it has more potential players to sort through? I will admit this is not a terribly noob friendly game, but the same tactics that will lead to success or failure still apply in 12v12 as they did in 8v8. The biggest thing that would help is dedicated push-to-talk in game voicechat function no teamspeak or 3rd party chat software needed. Voice comm or lack thereof is the biggest reason I joined a merc outfit, otherwise I'd be cool with just pugging.

[Sasha Volkova]

travelbug, on 07 August 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

imho, bringing back an 8v8 cue is one of a few ways to get new players to come in which is the only real solution. as it stands, the game has already alienated some noobs, puggers, people without monster computers, and others dissapointed with gameplay mechanics.

you can try to appease your limited game base or get more players to play the game. to me the choice is crystal clear.

Thx for the clarification ;b

And yes but PGI have stated that the game was supposed to become 12 v 12 from the beginning.
8 v 8 was just the easier goal in the beginning - consider it a stepping stone if you will.
Also I think I read somewhere (in here http://mwomercs.com/...24#entry2632824) that they would start doing active fixes to the matchmaker and balance of teams in general from now on.
So going back to allow 8 v 8 could risk creating a black area where their balance fixes may become either overpowered or underpowered considering the difference in mechs participating in the battle.

[RLBell]

Blalok, on 07 August 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

LRMs are rampant in this initial phase; I'll be curious to see if that holds up.

LRM's seem to be a mixed bag. If your team has some missile boats with deep magazines, slow enemies will suffer. Especially if a teammate, or two, with ample energy hardpoints mounts a TAG. However, too many will be a hindrance if your team does not have good scouts. My last match for this evening was a good case in point: The enemy had between 150 and 200 LRM tubes, but all of their scouts were destroyed out of LRM range, except for a single spider that spotted a single mech on our team (mine, unfortunately for me). My mech was destroyed before I got a single shot off, except for a spotting assist from TAGging said spider, which became a kill assist after it died (I scored zero points of damage and got a kill assist). Without spotters, their LRM fire was ineffective and the team was rolled up, once the brawl started.

My experience with LRM boating has been that there are more vulnerable targets, so I have been scoring more damage, while firing less missiles.

[travelbug]

0okami, on 07 August 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Thx for the clarification ;b

And yes but PGI have stated that the game was supposed to become 12 v 12 from the beginning.
8 v 8 was just the easier goal in the beginning - consider it a stepping stone if you will.
Also I think I read somewhere (in here http://mwomercs.com/...24#entry2632824) that they would start doing active fixes to the matchmaker and balance of teams in general from now on.
So going back to allow 8 v 8 could risk creating a black area where their balance fixes may become either overpowered or underpowered considering the difference in mechs participating in the battle.

thanks i never new that 12v12 was always the goal which is unfortunate because i felt 8v8 was perfect and it allowed for more varying, fluid gamestyles and yes it makes solo pugging more viable. and it just felt more like a mw game to me.

consider the atlas. it should be the bedrock of any group with its meatshield armor and firepower. two atlai piloted by good players with support fire could hold a ridge. three atlai with proper flanking help and support fire could sometimes steamroll. im no expert, but that seems consistent with mw lore.

with 12v12, the atlas just doesnt have that 'fear factor' anymore. in fact i will actively hunt an atlas because i know it will succumb to focus fire (sometimes in seconds) because there are just too many mechs in the battlefield.

i know some people will say l2p, but i do get the current meta right now (my scores are more or less at the same level). but murderblobs, diminished tactical importance of assaults, and the new hunter/killer teams of lances of lights just doesnt seem like mechwarrior to me.

Edited by travelbug, 07 August 2013 - 08:16 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

It is for me. So bad with 11 other ppl running around.

[Johnny Reb]

Redshift2k5, on 07 August 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

I've still played the majority of my games as a pug, and it's been fine.

Yes, however, a good player (which I think you are dropping with/against you) can survive and make a fight of it. I imagine the pugs are the first to die and fast. I don't fancy myself a good player (only competent player) and had this happen. With the reduced earnings, I feel for new players more than I ever did.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[Sam Slade]

For low specs players 12 vs 12 is just the end of the game. Too much rubberbanding and lag, not to mention GPU 'lag'... considering almost every high specs gamer will be migrating to Star Citizen I forsee the beginnings of a slow decline here.