27 replies to this topic

[Desdain]

I've been running my RVN-3L with NARC, and have to say it still isn't worth its weight. Even in teams with many LRMs, I'm not seeing any real benefit. What exactly is the goal with this equipment? I don't mean in TT, but in MWO. In practice its completely redundant to what most LRM boaters have (artemis and tag.)

As a side, but related note: given that release is just over a month away, don't you think you need to get the scout role sorted out and make it viable both in terms of in-game role and score equality (vs. killing)?

[IronChance]

Yeah, the NARC is ridiculously useless. Same with artillery and air strikes. I'm betting it'll be a while until these "auxiliary" systems see any rebalancing love.

[Unbound Inferno]

The problem is NARC mechanic itself is beyond useless.

After firing NARC, the mech that gets it CANNOT be hit by ANYTHING until LRMs are nearly on it.

THE SLIGHTEST DAMAGE (including bumping a teammate or fall damage from JJs) KNOCKS OFF NARC.

Then, well, its off.

ECM blocks NARC as well, and the bonus of NARC does not stack with ARTEMIS.
It does stack with TAG... but ARTEMIS+TAG is only marginally worse missile spread than NARC+TAG, and the NARC bonus dissapears when it gets knocked off, so unless its a full salvo hitting at once...


So.. yeah. Waste of space, missile hardpoint and tonnage.

[Volomon]

What NARC should do is not add any accuracy bonus at all, instead have it increase the range that an LRM can travel. That way it stacks with whatever. This would make it useful. Anything tagged with a NARC should have a special symbol so people know.

[Unbound Inferno]

Volomon, on 07 August 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

What NARC should do is not add any accuracy bonus at all, instead have it increase the range that an LRM can travel. That way it stacks with whatever. This would make it useful. Anything tagged with a NARC should have a special symbol so people know.

I'd rather have them just release the Arrow Launchers. Those things travel for miles.

[Roland]

If a Narc Beacon survived until the panel it was attached to was destroyed, it'd potentially be useful.

[General Taskeen]

I suggest playing MW3, MW4, and MW:LL and dream of when NARC will be like those games; Useful, competitive, and working as intended where upgraded SRM and LRM missiles track beacons.

I fear the Devs may have got owned by the last iteration of NARC in MW:LL, but that's just my conspiracy theory.

For now, PPC and Gauss it is.

Edited by General Taskeen, 07 August 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[Volomon]

Unbound Inferno, on 07 August 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

I'd rather have them just release the Arrow Launchers. Those things travel for miles.

If they add that then they have to add sniper artillery and the long tom.

[Ph30nix]

id be happy if they just let narc allow anyone to target that mech for X ammount of time with no limit to how many mechs you can Narc at a time.

could have a light mech with a narc run thru the enemy team narc the entire team and watch the LRM's fly.

[Shadey99]

Volomon, on 07 August 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

If they add that then they have to add sniper artillery and the long tom.

The problem with all 3 of those is they need mixed arm+torso critical spaces to shoe horn them onto mechs. It is why they always made more sense on vehicles. The clans fixed that by making them just barely fit in a torso (though by lore they were wildly unpopular).

[Bhael Fire]

NARC needs a range and speed boost. As for its actual effect, it should simply act as a transmitter that broadcasts the target mech's location to the NARC's team for 30 seconds, allowing all friendlies to target them within 2 km.

[Sephlock]

Iirc they finally made Narc work through ECM. It's still useless, but oh well...

[General Taskeen]

Sephlock, on 07 August 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Iirc they finally made Narc work through ECM. It's still useless, but oh well...

Even though it should be opposite.

Its been pretty awesome to use in MW3, MW4, and MW:LL in combination with SRM's and LRM's.

So if it was made to be powerful in MWO, it would then make sense that ECM is the 'canon' counter to keeping in an 'off' state when ECM is present.

It is the way it is now, because it is weak and a ghost of its former use in past Mech Warrior games.

Edited by General Taskeen, 07 August 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[SubRyan]

Make NARC missiles have the homing ability like SSRMs and they would be golden

[Sephlock]

SubRyan, on 07 August 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Make NARC missiles have the homing ability like SSRMs and they would be golden

That + not falling off at the slightest touch or running out of batteries after 30 seconds... One or the other, please.

[Joseph Mallan]

General Taskeen, on 07 August 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

For now, PPC and Gauss it is.

For now?

I've been using that combo since November!

[Sybreed]

Roland, on 07 August 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

If a Narc Beacon survived until the panel it was attached to was destroyed, it'd potentially be useful.

hey, that's what I was advocating in the latest ATD, but not enough people voted for my question about NARC. It got in 16th place...

General Taskeen, on 07 August 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

I suggest playing MW3, MW4, and MW:LL and dream of when NARC will be like those games; Useful, competitive, and working as intended where upgraded SRM and LRM missiles track beacons.

I fear the Devs may have got owned by the last iteration of NARC in MW:LL, but that's just my conspiracy theory.

For now, PPC and Gauss it is.

devs are completely afraid of NARC being OP. Yet, ECM.

[General Taskeen]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 August 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

For now?

I've been using that combo since November!

Correction.

For Always PPC And Gauss Until Further Notice.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Here is how to make NARC mean something:

1 - Give it a faster flight speed.

2 - Let is last for 60s or until the stuck location is destroyed.

3 - Let it broadcast a sensor return that can be targeted regardless of line of sight by any friendlies inside 600m. This entirely replaces lock-on, group size, or guidance boosts, which should be the province of TAG, Artemis IV, etc.

4 - Let ECM reduce its broadcast range by half, to 300m.

What does this do? It makes NARC a super handy fire-and-forget spotting tool that isn't hard-countered by anything, that is not redundant with other electronics (Artemis IV or TAG), and that is worth the high weight, low ammo count, and very short range.

[MustrumRidcully]

SubRyan, on 07 August 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Make NARC missiles have the homing ability like SSRMs and they would be golden

Not with the current homing capabilities of SSRM. Now it'S better to rely on standard SRM flight paths...

Two problems with Narc that I think limit their usefulness extremely:
1) They drop off from very low amounts of damage. That means they never last long enough to matter.
2) A LRM user can't use them. Their range is shorter than LRMs and they are not homing themselves, so if you can use Narc, you already have LOS to the target. In this scenario, TAG or Artemis (if you have 4 or less launchers) would already help you way more for less weight investment. So even if 1 was fixed, this would still mean it's a weapon for scout mechs, but what scout can afford to spend 4-5 tons of equipment without having a guarantee that there would be a few LRM boaters in his team?

There are other problems, but I think these two are killing it.

Potential Fixes:
1) Narc lasts until the opponent has lost a component. (Or until the component it is attached to is destroyed, whatever PGI can implement here without wreaking havoc with their game system) or 3 minutes.
2) Several things that could be done here:
- Narc becomes a homing weapon that is indirect fire capable exatly like LRMs. That means that a missile using mech can equip Narc to benefit itself. That's a solid solution.
- Narc launcher drops down to 1 ton weight. That breaks stock mechs with Narc - just fill up the remaining weight with Narc ammo (hoping there are crit slots left for that), or just leave them as is because who the **** cares about stock anyway.
But this allows even scouts to equip a Narc launcher and would make carrying it worth the risk. 2 tons of investment (the launcher +1 ton of ammo) and you can play tag for your team with lower risk than using TAG (since you spot mech, fire the Narc, and run off, and the next 3 minutes, your allies can hammer the target). (But if you'd used TAG, you had infinite ammo and a ton more avaialble for gear)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 07 August 2013 - 11:00 PM.