96 replies to this topic

[Purlana]

Lefty Lucy, on 08 August 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Compared to closed beta with 8-man premades when nearly every game was 8-0? Getting 4 kills is hardly a "roll" especially with the way the game tends to snowball.

Maybe not a "roll" but it's still pretty bad...

[Shadey99]

Skyfaller, on 08 August 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Premade exploiting has gone from being very annoying to being game-breaking. Why, yes... its lovely when your 100% pug team faces 100% premade sync team that is chock full of ECM mech, LRMs and PPCs.

I ran into one of those this morning... I could neither see (in any mode) nor detect the enemy forces on a river city night map, yet I was pounded on by missiles, gauss, and PPCs. And It didn't matter where I went or how many other targets were around, they started with me as the heaviest mech on my team (in my highlander 733C) and whittled us down from there 1 by 1 heaviest to lightest. My team seemed completely incapable of mounting any response and while I tried hiding behind buildings and finding where they were, A highlander is not a very good platform to hide in. I died right after getting to the enemy forces as they all opened up on me as soon as I came into view. All hidden behind a group of DDC atlas mechs around 1km from where my team was holed up...

[Goose]

Purlana, on 08 August 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Most matches I played up end up with a score of 12-4. Once one side has gained momentum the blob of death can't be stopped.

And there often isn't enough scouting to avoid the blob in 'Mechs only going ~90kph.

[Mystere]

Magicbullet141, on 08 August 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

rolls: one team is wiped out, other team takes 4 or less casualties. It didn't happen too often in 8v8, but in now it happens all the time. The game is decided a full 10 min before it comes to a conclusion. The best part is that we are lucky to break 100k cbills, even on a win.

That might be the case. But, I have been seeing frantic, bitter, and desperate last stands worthy of Mechwarriors!

[MaddMaxx]

Redshift2k5, on 08 August 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

I see more like 20% rolls

It is all relative I guess. I see 25% Rolls, 28% Buns and 47% croissants. All in the eye of the beholder I guess.

[Corvus Antaka]

TexAss, on 08 August 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

my experience is the complete opposite. About 90% of matches end with the winning team having less than 4 mechs and I only pug (mostly alone or with one friend).

Yesterday I had a match where we led 6:1 and lost 8-12 at the end.

+1

[DaZur]

MaddMaxx, on 08 August 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

It is all relative I guess. I see 25% Rolls, 28% Buns and 47% croissants. All in the eye of the beholder I guess.

MAN.... you're on a roll today!

[Rugarou]

And again people are assuming the "sync dropping premade bogeyman" are to blame for them losing. Unless the other team all have the same house affiliation by their name or tells you outright, you cannot know that it was a synched drop. Simple as that. Just because one team seems to be coordinated, it is more than likely dumb luck or something as simple as "shoot the same target as everyone else" which is just good sense. Or more likely, people just don't want to admit they are not as good as they think they are.

And yes, I have been in plenty of losses both pugging and 4-mans since 12 v 12. Sometimes its due to uncoordinated play on our side. Sometimes it is due to the other team were just flat out better than us. And sometimes its cause I sucked and caused our team to lose. Get over it already and start looking at yourself for why your team might have lost. Learn from the mistake, adapt to new tactics, and try again. If you refuse to adapt or even think you might be the reason your team lost then you will never improve.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Aim64C, on 08 August 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

It really just depends upon how many people decide to rush single-file up the 'ramps' in the center of Therma or do similarly silly things.

The single-file rush up the ramps in the center of Therma isn't an issue, the stopping at the top and trying to back up, now that is the issue. The ones up front can't back up so they just die and the ones behind can't move forward to give support. Ends up being like ducks in a row for any enemy that can get a few mechs through to door and set up in a line of fire.

Moral of the story? If you take the ramp, you can't stop. You got to commit, rush through and fan out to the sides to present a firing line and everyone has to keep on comming in as fast as possible. Any hesitation and the tactic fails miserable 9 times out of 10. However, trying to all the playes in a PUG to realize this, even after your scream at them not to stop is practically impossible.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 08 August 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

I’m glad this thread was made. I was going to make it but did not want to deal with the founder’s only solution. "Get teamspeak".

I absolutely loved the 12 v12. Once the allure of it wore off and It went back to pug lolerstomps. I got sick again. PGI refuses to acknowledge they have no choice but to implement pug and premade only ques. Will they? I don’t know, maybe when it’s too late. The founders seem to love cutting their nose to spite their face on this one.

The silent majority is in favor of pug and premade only ques. Every game since 12 v12 was put in I say in chat "PGI needs to make solo and premade only ques". Everyone agrees except the premades. I even get "pugs are the problem with this game". The real problem is the people playing since closed beta feel more entitled then the royal family!

It’s simple. Make 2 ques. Solo drops and premade drops. With the option for solos to join ether one to fill numbers for the lolerstompers. The new players coming into this game are at such a disadvantage its silly. 20 Games in crappy trial mechs to earn enough for a new mech. Then they buy that new mech and have to grind the xp to unlock their trees. It’s a painful grind. Something I would never do again for any reason. All the while having to “accept” premades are always going to lolerstomps. Good luck on the turnaround guys.

I solo drop only. NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL join a premade! EVER! It’s not my game style. It’s even less fun to win 12-0 then it is too lose at this point, in other words the game is just not fun for me anymore. It’s just a place for me to get my mech addiction on and that is getting old.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 08 August 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

pretty much. 12v12 is just deathballing. An individual is no longer able to make a significant difference. In 8v8, 1 person could kill like 4 mechs and win the game singlehandedly. In 12v12 even when I kill 4 mechs my team still somehow manages to find a way to lose.

Maybe because it is a team game over a solo one. So team work is now working better and solo players can no longer be RiStars. Good I say.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 August 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Maybe because it is a team game over a solo one. So team work is now working better and solo players can no longer be RiStars. Good I say.

when 12 pugs drop on a TEAM. That is a TEAM. voice comms and premade is not the only way for a TEAM to play. This argument is so false it stinks like a new york sewer.


team:


noun
1.
a persons forming one of the sides in a game or contest: a football team.
2.
a number of associated in some joint action: a team of advisers.
3.
two or more horses, or other harnessed together to draw a vehicle, plow, or the like.
4.
one or more draft animals together with the harness and vehicle drawn.


nope, nothing about temspeak or must get in a premade to be on a team.... try again.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 08 August 2013 - 12:26 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

FatBabyThompkins, on 08 August 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

I've been on and received the 12-0 roflstomp. I've also seen it whittle to one on one and been the last Spider (without a leg mind) vs. an Atlas (intense conclusion that had everyone on the seat of their pants). It is so random and chaotic, I seriously doubt there is any way to balance these matches to give fairness. We're talking about ELO, mech, weapon, map, teams and on-the-fly decision making and trying to create a fair play for everyone. It will not happen. 12 vs. 12 is great when you're the one stomping, horrible when you're losing and awe inspiring when it has resulted to a duel of two mechs. I agree that 100% 12 vs. 12 is a bad idea, but they're likely trying to get as much data as possible right now. Personally, I like both. At first, I did not like 12 vs. 12, but now, playing with the mobile cannon (the PPC Spider, which is wholly broken, but frustrates the hell out of the PPCWarrior), I was having fun.

Lol you said spider. You can't count your games until the devs fix them. Oh wait you admit to it! Grrr now I can't be mad at you.

[Joseph Mallan]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 08 August 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

when 12 pugs drop on a TEAM. That is a TEAM. voice comms and premade is not the only way for a TEAM to play. This argument is so false it stinks like a new york sewer.


team:


noun
1.
a persons forming one of the sides in a game or contest: a football team.
2.
a number of associated in some joint action: a team of advisers.
3.
two or more horses, or other harnessed together to draw a vehicle, plow, or the like.
4.
one or more draft animals together with the harness and vehicle drawn.


nope, nothing about temspeak or must get in a premade to be on a team.... try again.

However the Better teams are still winning, an those teams with Comms are still working together better than PUG teams. Just because you group together 12 random players it does not mean they are a "team". It would be akin to me and my buddies playing baseball v the New York Yankees and expecting to have a close game. We are both teams but we are not on the same level though.

[WVAnonymous]

I concur with the OP statement, and speculate that the Elo is completely borked for constructing 12 v 12 teams with any sort of weight-class grouping.

MM starts with the teams and then in-fills with PUGs. Is there a real possibility that the first team to get constructed can be predominantly teams and the second team is predominantly PUGs?

Tuesday night I was 0/6 W/L, Wednesday night I was 5/2 (roughly). Much streakier than usual, regardless of the reason.

[Khobai]

Quote

Maybe because it is a team game over a solo one. So team work is now working better and solo players can no longer be RiStars. Good I say.

There is hardly any teamwork in this game. The vast majority of the time its just khobai and 11 confused pugs that sometimes follow him and sometimes dont

I would LOVE It if this game had better ways for me to communicate with my pug teammates. But the command interface leaves a lot to be desired. Plus theres no quick-key macros. Or integrated voice chat.

[FatBabyThompkins]

PropagandaWar, on 08 August 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

Lol you said spider. You can't count your games until the devs fix them. Oh wait you admit to it! Grrr now I can't be mad at you.

Oh no, you can be mad at me. I'm not only abusing one thing, but two. It kind of brings me back to my old quake/tribes/UT2004 days running around with the perfect aim sniper rifle/rail gun (twitch gamer at heart). I still die quite regularly to one hit wonders, but if I'm taking a PPC on the hardest to hit mech, I have no room to talk . I am also no light hunter in current form as I have to also worry about hit reg against my fellow lights, so I can very easily be swamped in the light dance.

[Dedzone]

I have to agree that the games, for the most part, are pretty lopsided at the end. The one I just finished, 12dead to 4 dead.

This reminds me heavily of EVE. More numbers only creates more of a blob. I bring 10 battleships to the fight so the other guys bring 15. So next fight, I bring 20. Before you know it you have a fight where literally 1000's of ships are on the field.

Yes, this is only a 12v12 map but the mentality is the same. EVERYONE knows that if you even have 2 or 3 mechs move off in a diff. direction than the main force, those 9 mechs are at a severe disadvantage if they run into the full 12 of the other group. So THIS promotes blobing at it's very core. It is a human nature and a military tactic. Power in numbers.

How do we avoid it? Who the hell knows. Its been the bane of multiplayer games since the dawn of time. As it is human nature, it simply cannot be avoided.

Edited by Dedzone, 08 August 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 August 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

However the Better teams are still winning, an those teams with Comms are still working together better than PUG teams. Just because you group together 12 random players it does not mean they are a "team". It would be akin to me and my buddies playing baseball v the New York Yankees and expecting to have a close game. We are both teams but we are not on the same level though.

THIS is exactly why there needs to be solo and premade ques.
12 v 12 pugs the better team will win. The pugs that work as a team will win. No comms needed.

Basicly your argument and solution is "get team speak".

[KuruptU4Fun]

Drasari, on 08 August 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Perhaps there is still some adjusting to do on the players part to the new play style.

As they say: " Rome wasn't built in a day" so yes people need to learn and adapt to the tactics..