75 replies to this topic

[Bhael Fire]

I understand the reasoning behind the desyncing. BUT by placing a charge-time on the gauss, you will pretty much render it useless (with the current tonnage, crits, and damage).

Not sure if you spend a lot of time sniping in the game, but snipers need to be ready to shoot as soon as they get a clean shot. They can't sit around waiting for their weapon to warm up before they can take the shot.

Rather than nerf/kill a weapon that's pretty much perfectly balanced right now, maybe just make it so certain weapons lose effectiveness when alpha'd together due to energy drains.

For example, when a player fires more than one PPC and a Gauss, it places a tremendous amount of strain on the mech's energy resources, and therefore reduces the effective range and kinetic energy of the attack — reducing the damage and range of each weapon by a certain amount.

I don't know.

I guess if you're going to add weird/clunky design elements like heat scaling, you might as well add weird/clunky things that actually balance game play instead of make it annoying and un-fun.

[Monky]

The concept of a charging weapon isn't that hard to master, especially for a sniper. You have time to pick your shots, you have distance seperating you from the enemy which means they only have a few viable counters.

Charging time on the Gauss is fine (and even very forgiving at 0.75 seconds)

[Alistair Winter]

As others have said, it's a good solution for the wrong weapon. Gauss rifles aren't the problem right now. PPCs and ER PPCs are much worse. They should use the 'charge' mechanic for those weapons instead. The Gauss rifles is already limited by its ammunition and the fact that explodes when it's damaged.

[Kiiyor]

I like the idea, personally... however, they will need to look at the recharge time of the weapon itself - adding .75 seconds onto the stock recharge will have a large impact on the DPS of the weapon, even assuming the shot can be macro'ed or skilled to fire exactly after the .75 seconds. And when does the recharge start? After the shot is fired? After the .75 seconds?

I like the suggestion in the first reply to the current ATD - to give this to PPCs, rather than Gauss.

[Bhael Fire]

Monky, on 24 August 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

You have time to pick your shots, you have distance seperating you from the enemy which means they only have a few viable counters.

Only if you are on the offensive and seeking targets that are in their "safe" area, unaware of your presence.

However, in the flurry of combat when your services are most needed, a sniper must be able to select targets on the fly and eliminate them from the equation without harming any friendly units.

Charge time makes that impractical.

[DegeneratePervert]

Gauss doesn't need this nerf.... PPCs do.

[Corwin Maxwell]

why don't they just simply put the 0 dmg penalty on gauss that is or should be on std ppc's problem solved.

[Calon]

Charging a gauss makes no sense to me. Surely loading a round means its charged. That's why it explodes when it is destroyed.

Add the charge time to the PPC instead.

[Slumu]

Maybe I'm getting something wrong or not at all, but how is a charging time for Gauss rifles solving anything. As far as I understand, you have to charge up the gauss, then you can keep it charged for a few seconds and then you either have to fire or the charge disolves. That correct so far?

If it is, it only means I have to fire my PPCs 0.75s later to get the same Alpha output I had before. How is that helping with anything really? And please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Monky]

Bhael Fire, on 24 August 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

Only if you are on the offensive and seeking targets that are in their "safe" area, unaware of your presence.

However, in the flurry of combat when your services are most needed, a sniper must be able to select targets on the fly and eliminate them from the equation without harming any friendly units.

Charge time makes that impractical.

You are talking about fire support, not sniping. Fire support helps in the heat of battle, snipers funnel people into killzones by discouraging them from sticking out their heads.

Edited by Monky, 24 August 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[El Bandito]

Bhael Fire, on 24 August 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

Only if you are on the offensive and seeking targets that are in their "safe" area, unaware of your presence. However, in the flurry of combat when your services are most needed, a sniper must be able to select targets on the fly and eliminate them from the equation without harming any friendly units. Charge time makes that impractical.

See, this is the problem. The mentality of some random twitch shooter FPS players infecting BT lore.

MWO shouldn't be about popping enemy mechs left and right from long distance like some AWPer from Counter-Strike.

Not that I agree with having the Gauss have recharge time--canonically it is the PPC/ERPPC that should have charge time.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 August 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[xenoglyph]

If you don't have the coordination to still fire them both at the same time, here's a macro for you:

Left mouse button down = fire group 1 (Gauss)
Left mouse button up = fire group 2 (PPCs)

[Onmyoudo]

Alistair Winter, on 24 August 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

As others have said, it's a good solution for the wrong weapon. Gauss rifles aren't the problem right now. PPCs and ER PPCs are much worse. They should use the 'charge' mechanic for those weapons instead. The Gauss rifles is already limited by its ammunition and the fact that explodes when it's damaged.

This, this, this. I honestly cannot fathom how PGI works these things out sometimes. When was the last time you saw anyone complaining about a Gauss outside of the context of PPCs? Before they made the hp low and the exploding work properly, I'd think. The PPCs are evidently the problem. Sigh.

[Bhael Fire]

El Bandito, on 24 August 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

See, this is the problem. The mentality of some random twitch shooter FPS players infecting BT lore.

I'm not really a "twitch shooter" fps player.

I'm a 42 yr-old veteran of both BattleTech TT and the MechWarrior computer game franchise.

Truly sorry that my "mentality" offends you.

[Ralgas]

Slumu, on 24 August 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

Maybe I'm getting something wrong or not at all, but how is a charging time for Gauss rifles solving anything. As far as I understand, you have to charge up the gauss, then you can keep it charged for a few seconds and then you either have to fire or the charge disolves. That correct so far?

If it is, it only means I have to fire my PPCs 0.75s later to get the same Alpha output I had before. How is that helping with anything really? And please correct me if I'm wrong.

makes snap shots and leading mechs more difficult/random with a full alpha. Jump sniping timing just got an extra dimension as well

Edited by Ralgas, 25 August 2013 - 12:57 AM.

[El Bandito]

Bhael Fire, on 25 August 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

I'm not really a "twitch shooter" fps player. I'm a 42 yr-old veteran of both BattleTech TT and the MechWarrior computer game franchise. Truly sorry that my "mentality" offends you.

1. Yes it does offend me.

2. If you were indeed who you say you are, then you should be offended by what you said, as well.

[John MatriX82]

Charging the gauss isn't so bad, but I may Agree that PPCs should have more "energy charge" than the GR; besides this, that mechaning is going to cripple the DPSs put out from that gun, so I think they should lower the recycle time a bit, like 3.5"+0,75" of chargeup should leave its dps near to what's now, yet desyncing it from the PPCs.

[Monky]

John MatriX82, on 25 August 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

Charging the gauss isn't so bad, but I may Agree that PPCs should have more "energy charge" than the GR; besides this, that mechaning is going to cripple the DPSs put out from that gun, so I think they should lower the recycle time a bit, like 3.5"+0,75" of chargeup should leave its dps near to what's now, yet desyncing it from the PPCs.

I think a charge up on both is in order honestly.

Gauss rifles; 15 tons, 3 tons of ammo for a 12 v 12 - no heat, 15 points of damage at long range.

PPCs; 7 tons + heatsinks, no ammo, 10 points of damage at long range.

Both of these weapons outperform AC10's and AC5/UAC5, and AC2. They need to be made harder to use and there's only so much tweaking you can get away with in terms of projectile speed/heat/ammo per ton/etc. Charge up time fits the bill for both of them so they stay functional as sniping weapons and reduce effectiveness in a brawl - giving the other weapons a clear area where they are actually superior.

[Lord Perversor]

Slumu, on 24 August 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

Maybe I'm getting something wrong or not at all, but how is a charging time for Gauss rifles solving anything. As far as I understand, you have to charge up the gauss, then you can keep it charged for a few seconds and then you either have to fire or the charge disolves. That correct so far?

If it is, it only means I have to fire my PPCs 0.75s later to get the same Alpha output I had before. How is that helping with anything really? And please correct me if I'm wrong.

As it seems all this fixes are part of a larger picture (it's seems they are taking care of the Clan weapons along with this fixes too) And while the main issue is the PPC, we are aproaching a time where mechs cans till carry 2x Gauss+PPC with easy (Heavy/Assault chassis with heavy ballistic) .

For the explanation you hit fire, and the weapon takes a 0'25 seconds to load, then you have a 1.25 seconds to fire, if you don't fire i guess the weapon will get the CD but without firing any round, this among other things harden the PoPtarting specially with Gauss. (it seems they are increasing Gauss life after this fix)

And while i do Agree with almost everyone, this should not be the main Fix for high alpha pinpoint issue, the best fix it's Return the PPC to their original Beta values, where the projectile traveled Slower and generated way more heat, as right now it's almost always more efficient get 2x PPC +4 HS than a Gauss +3 ammo tons.

P.S: Canonically the Gauss weapon was quite taxative, when firing one in a Battlemech the weapon will Drain most of the Mech energy , thus stoping it from firing several other weapons , or even devote to much energy to basic movement (at least as explained in the novels)

[MustrumRidcully]

Slumu, on 24 August 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

Maybe I'm getting something wrong or not at all, but how is a charging time for Gauss rifles solving anything. As far as I understand, you have to charge up the gauss, then you can keep it charged for a few seconds and then you either have to fire or the charge disolves. That correct so far?

If it is, it only means I have to fire my PPCs 0.75s later to get the same Alpha output I had before. How is that helping with anything really? And please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think in practice it boils down to one of these two possibilities:

- It is worth waiting 0.75 seconds to alpha your PPCs together with the Gauss Rifle for a sniper
- It is not worth waiting 0.75 seconds to fire a Gauss Rifle, and it will become a rare sight on the battlefield.

The extra effort of managing the charge-up must really be worth it for this to function.
Maybe a Sniper can work with the charge-up, but when he can work with it, there isn't any reason to not time the other weapons to fire with it.

But I suspect that for anyone that uses a mixed weapon loadout, this whole charge-up loadout makes it too complicated to be effective. You already have to manage the enemies defensive maneuvers to time your shot and your weapons normal cooldown, adding an extra step for the Gauss will not work so well.