62 replies to this topic

[Taemien]

Psikez, on 08 August 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

4x RAC2's FTW.

I can't wait till MWO gets Rotaries.

[MustrumRidcully]

Besides all the usual stuff -more upfront damage, better pinpoint damage results, more time torso-twisting, there is also that AC/10s produce a lot less heat than AC/2s. The AC/2 produces 1 heat per 2 points of damage, the AC/10 3 heat per 10 damage.

[BlacKcuD]

Taemien, on 08 August 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

I can't wait till MWO gets Rotaries.

This!

[Grey Ghost]

I got melted once by a quad ac/2 Jagermech in my fresh Atlas, as I was way too slow to move into cover fast enough. They are certainly no joke.

Though it does seem odd that it has the same DPS as the AC/10. A cooldown of 0.65 would put it just right under the AC/5 (3.08 DPS vs 3.33 DPS), or 0.60 to match it instead.

[Kitane]

I have mixed feelings about AC2.

On one side, AC2 shoots 20 times faster than its TT variant, doing 20x more damage. 10x if you count in the double armor. It makes ballistic mechs that can take advantage of multiple AC2s more powerful than intended. It also goes against the original PGI's idea of AC variants made by different manufacturers.

On the other side, current AC2/AC5/AC10/AC20 balance in the game works pretty well and players can balance between weight savings and the difficulty to use. All cannons are used frequently and all cannons are viable. The balance is much better than a balance of lasers or SRMs.

I would love to see SRM launchers being balanced in a same way: Halve fire rate of SRM2, reduce fire rate of SRM4 to around 2.8s and leave SRM6 as they are now. DPS would end up similar, but they would offer a choice between light weight sustained damage and a heavier high alpha damage.

[MeiSooHaityu]

orcrist86, on 08 August 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

The AC/2 is far better than the 10 in 12v12 in one role right now. Suppression. Load up an AC2 with ammo, and you can keep pop tarts and snipers at bay while maneuvering from long distance to medium.

A/C2s have been good for a while, but most ignore that.

As for what the OP was saying, it comes down to (do I front load damage on one location or do I spread the damage out and hope to put that damage whre I want).

Really, I run a dual A/C10 in the Catapult K2 and take advantage of the front load damage on that mech. I also run 3 A/C2s in a Hunchback 4G and use it as a sniper/suppression fire mech. It depends on what you are looking for and the roll you want to use the mech for. If people are hinting that this makes the A/C2 overpowered, it doesn't I do get rather high damage figures with the A/C2 (often around 400 ~ 500), but that doesn't translate into kills (not that 1.3KDR PUG is that bad for this mech).

A/C2s are nice, but not for every occasion.

[Joseph Mallan]

Taemien, on 08 August 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

4x RAC2's FTW.

I can't wait till MWO gets Rotaries.

Why? The whiners will have them exploding cause they are OP.
...
...
...
BTW I prefer a single RAC10.

[Zultor]

When is the last time anyone has seen an AC-10 on the battlefield? I can't remember one. Alternatively the 2xAc-2 builds (and even some with more than 2) are everywhere. I would say the OP is correct.

Another reason the AC-2 is better is that everytime an opponent is hit the explosion shakes him and obstructs his view. Chain fire form multiple AC-2's can effectively lock down a mech.

[Sable Dove]

For the record, it's actually 3-5 DHS to account for the additional heat of the AC/2 (depending on whether they're internal or external).
Odds are that if you want to be equally heat-efficient, you'll run out of room before tonnage.

AC/10 needs the same treatment as the AC/5 (faster fire rate, longer range).

[PEEFsmash]

Lazy Eye, on 08 August 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

AC/2: 2 damage every 0.5 seconds.
AC/10: 10 damage every 2.5 seconds.

Same damage/ammo/tonne.

AC/2 shoots 50% further.
AC/2 weighs half as much.
AC/2 uses *6* slots less.
AC/2 would generate 2 heat more.

Soooo... You can take:

• 2 DHS and still be lighter and more heat-efficient.

OR

• 1 DHS and 3 extra tons of ammo and still be lighter, nearly as heat efficient AND have 450 more damage potential.

Sorry, but that's JustPlainDumb^™.

Fail. Lack of Pinpoint damage makes this a stupid and uninformed post.

[Jorm]

Lazy Eye, on 08 August 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Sorry, but that's JustPlainDumb^™.

yes,,yes you are

[Khobai]

Not exactly a secret that the AC/10 is terrible.

Quote

Fail. Lack of Pinpoint damage makes this a stupid and uninformed post.

Not entirely true.

Two AC/2s do 4 damage every 0.5 seconds.
An AC/10 does 10 damage every 2.5 seconds.

As long as you can put over 50% of your shots into the same location the AC/2s are better for pinpoint at <450m.

And at a certain range >450m, the AC/2s become outright better than the AC/10, because of the AC/10s damage dropoff.

Overall I would say AC/2s are much better weapons. The AC/10 is just so crappy. The only reason to ever take one would be if you only have 1 ballistic slot and not enough crit slots for an AC/20 or Gauss.

Edited by Khobai, 16 August 2013 - 01:25 AM.

[AlexEss]

It all comes down to play-style and preference in the end.

AC/2´s are easier to hit with as you can "walk" the shots in but the burst is a lot less potent unless you stack them. In essence the AC/2 becomes less efficient the smaller and faster the target gets, at least in the hands of the average user.

But seeing as most people run big, slow mechs it is a AC/2 Smörgåsbord.

[DaZur]

Is the AC/2 garbage?

IMHO... depends on what you want to do wit it.

If your looking to insta-kill... obviously not. That said... if you're looking for a suppression weapon it can't be beat.

Folks get so caught up in the "kill / capture / win"... Ancillary benefits are often overlooked and in this case, the 2' does a good job reaching out and telling the enemy peek-a-boo snipers to tuck their tails.

May not kill'm quickly but you sure can annoy the hell out of them as you close in the use your brawl weapons.

Edited by DaZur, 16 August 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[stjobe]

I recently started levelling BlackJacks, and I have
* BJ-1 with dual AC/2s and 4xML (18 firepower)
* BJ-1DC with AC/10 + ERPPC (20 firepower)
* BJ-1X with 2xERLL and 4xML (36 firepower)

BJ-1: 82 matches, 56 kills (0.68 kills/match)
BJ-1DC: 64 matches, 34 kills (0.53 kills/match)
BJ-1X: 66 matches, 43 kills (0.65 kills/match)

It's funny, but the dual AC/2 one gets me more kills than the others, even though it's the one with the lowest firepower rating.

[Zargar The Barbar]

I think Ac5's and Ac20's are both currently excellent weapons (Even if Ac5's dps look worse you have to remember that they are low heat and very ammo efficient for their weight. Double AC5s are a force to be reckoned with). AC10 and Ac2 could use a buff in my opinion. However I would rather take a single Ac10 over a single Ac2 because 2 damage per shot is far too soft to be anything more than annoying. Unless if your mopping up already damaged enemies who are basically dead already.

[DeadlyNerd]

For those that haven't noticed yet, AC/2 and AC/5 have better dps to weight ratio than AC/10 and AC/20.

[Lightfoot]

Reslin, on 08 August 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

This. In theory the AC/2 is better but this isn't always the case. Sometimes you only have time to get 1-2 shots off and the AC-10 will do more damage in this scenario. Not to mention you get 10 damage up front with the AC10 and you can twist your body to block incoming shots rather than staying on target. You could do the same with AC/2 but.. then you're not getting the full damage from it either.

You would turn away and let yourself be peppered for 4 seconds instead of two? Just saying the AC10 has 2.5 second recharge and the fastest you can realistically expect to re-aim is 2 seconds also. You can turn away in MWO, but you are really just withdrawing since you will take more damage than if you didn't turn away at all. Especially to grouped AC2's which will be hitting you constantly.

AC2s get pretty good accuracy on moving targets at long range, and that's how you play them.

[GingerBang]

Lazy Eye, on 08 August 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

AC/2: 2 damage every 0.5 seconds.
AC/10: 10 damage every 2.5 seconds.

Same damage/ammo/tonne.

AC/2 shoots 50% further.
AC/2 weighs half as much.
AC/2 uses *6* slots less.
AC/2 would generate 2 heat more.

Soooo... You can take:

• 2 DHS and still be lighter and more heat-efficient.

OR

• 1 DHS and 3 extra tons of ammo and still be lighter, nearly as heat efficient AND have 450 more damage potential.

Sorry, but that's JustPlainDumb^™.

I love how you conveniently leave out the part about having to hit the exact same spot over and over again for the damage to be effective.


Go home kid.

[Monky]

In a game where you're usually up against 6+ assault mechs, a few heavies, and maybe one or two lights or a slow medium, AC2's are really powerful, and aside from Gauss rifles, probably your best all purpose ballistic.

In a game where you're fighting mixed setups it gets a lot hairier, which is where the AC10 leads dual AC2 as you will need more potshots. Personally, I can land an AC2 almost every time on a circling light, but I can't guarantee i'll hit the same spot, which is where the AC10 comes into play more. This is, however, the only real place the AC10 shines and it's often better to go for a Gauss if you want real all-rounder capability.