21 replies to this topic

[Iskareot]

I have to wonder now, after seeing more and more Clan driven premades destsroy Pugs...

Should the game say in the first download:

Join a clan, or group, friends because while you can go solo this game is intended for team play and you will not succeed nearly as much if you are solo vs a premade group?

You will need voice comms to really be decent in most matches for enjoyment and winning outcomes?

While this is a solo game, with the added 12 v 12 battle concept we encourage team play with plans and loadout premade group focus fire and strats.

I ask this because I have done both... and without a doubt whatsoever, being in a group is key now to winning more then ever and not being destroyed in 10 seconds.

I had a couple friends join the game... (you know, trying to expand the population...) I have played since last year and love the game but they are newer... do not have a group, do not have a clan.. (I didnt join one yet either).. and now the premade grouping seems more imbalanced with the elo system than ever.

SO -- if you are first time or even a 20 battle later type player.. unless you are in a premade group your odds of winning are even more in the hole. I have done groups and solo and hands down the group rolling of a pug is a joke. If you have coms, (vent or TS, skype etc..) and you focus and talk, also know where and what your teamate is doing it is hands down cake to roll a pug..

And that pug could be a new potential player and money giver to the cause.. yet he is going to play 10 times and think, "Well all these premade folks have it made, I may as well not even bother to continue"... AND this has happend to some gaming friends of mine already.

So I really think somehow some way this concept of choosing a "premade battle vs pug battle" thing needs to be figured out before we lose too many newer people that want to feel better and successful at least in the first couple months of the game vs 2 days and call it quits due to imbalance.

Again... DO not think of yourselfs... put yourself in the mindset of the new people.. that just downloaded the game and or took your advice into playing it. I see now more than ever the issues this is headed towards with the 12 v 12. 3 , 4 man teams are flat out nasty.... period.

I say let them farm other 4 man teams and let the newer people play solo and have a bit more of a chance.

OR AT LEAST warn them as they download how this will go down if they do not clan up -- or group up.

Edited by Iskareot, 09 August 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[Iskareot]

And please... do not even do that "well I play solo and Im bran new"... and I win every time... that won't fly. Also the "I play solo and I have been playing for 2 years.. cause that is not a good example either"... lol.

Again, before the game goes live think logics in this.

[Novakaine]

There are no Clans.
The Clans do not exist.
The Clans are a myth.
You have been warned.
FedCom MilSec

[KuruptU4Fun]

Your issue isn't new Iskereot. Pugs choose to pug and there is information available to join many groups or communicate using TS and other VioP programs. In game chat is what we have, and there is NO guarantee a Pug will choose to follow it.

pug (Solaris) is being worked on but way down the pipe line, Clans will get here before then.

[Iskareot]

Novakaine, on 09 August 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

There are no Clans.
The Clans do not exist.
The Clans are a myth.
You have been warned.
FedCom MilSec

Lol.. right. Well as a Vet of the game, I do hope you chime in logically. Again I would love to roll each game in groups with friends every time. I had two new people with me and they were amazed at how the game is different when playing with people focusing on things with coms etc..

Prior I had lost two people that I got to join due to the imbalance in play somewhat. I could not even lie and say OH it's a myth lol. I mean maybe it all balances out in the end but I know for sure that a new person vs a premade has about 1 chance in 10 of even pulling off a kill ha.

[Iskareot]

KuruptU4Fun, on 09 August 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Your issue isn't new Iskereot. Pugs choose to pug and there is information available to join many groups or communicate using TS and other VioP programs. In game chat is what we have, and there is NO guarantee a Pug will choose to follow it.

pug (Solaris) is being worked on but way down the pipe line, Clans will get here before then.

Now this is of course true but you are thinking everyone is going to KNOW this in the chute and read everything and do everything when starting to play this game. You have to think "as we say in the IT world" LCD - lowest common denomenator. DO not assume everyone that plays wants or knows that this game and winning has a key element that group premades and coms are a needed aspect. DO not assume that everyone is or WANTS to do this. They assume it can be played well as a solo player. Understand I have witnessed new and older player issues with this myself now. Bottom line I see a few sides.

And yes I have also seen clans "claim OH NO nothing is wrong let us continue to farm the pugs please" desires as well.

No matter what, there is an issue there and it is stopping some new players from staying in the game now that the game is established more so and ready to go live almost.

In respect, launching software myself and seeing how masses take it on is not a lot different really. You have both spectums of players and one side right now is catered to more. It is almost clear as can be too.

[IceSerpent]

Iskareot, on 09 August 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Lol.. right. Well as a Vet of the game, I do hope you chime in logically. Again I would love to roll each game in groups with friends every time. I had two new people with me and they were amazed at how the game is different when playing with people focusing on things with coms etc..

Prior I had lost two people that I got to join due to the imbalance in play somewhat. I could not even lie and say OH it's a myth lol. I mean maybe it all balances out in the end but I know for sure that a new person vs a premade has about 1 chance in 10 of even pulling off a kill ha.

Dude, what he is trying to tell you (in a kind of tongue-in-cheek way) is that "Clan" in BT/MW is not the same as "unit" or "guild". Anyway, your whole OP basically says that it's easier to play with friends than solo. That holds true for any game that allows groups and it has ben like that since forever, so what's your point exactly?

[KuruptU4Fun]

Iskareot, on 09 August 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Now this is of course true but you are thinking everyone is going to KNOW this in the chute and read everything and do everything when starting to play this game. You have to think "as we say in the IT world" LCD - lowest common denomenator. DO not assume everyone that plays wants or knows that this game and winning has a key element that group premades and coms are a needed aspect. DO not assume that everyone is or WANTS to do this. They assume it can be played well as a solo player. Understand I have witnessed new and older player issues with this myself now. Bottom line I see a few sides.

And yes I have also seen clans "claim OH NO nothing is wrong let us continue to farm the pugs please" desires as well.

No matter what, there is an issue there and it is stopping some new players from staying in the game now that the game is established more so and ready to go live almost.

In respect, launching software myself and seeing how masses take it on is not a lot different really. You have both spectums of players and one side right now is catered to more. It is almost clear as can be too.

All you have to do is click on the forum, and all the new player is at the top. As I like to say for those who try to make that point about the suffering of pugs is:


Ignorance is Bliss, you can solve the problem by informing yourself. It's not on us to do it for you.

[Purlana]

Warning MWO is a team based FPS?

[MaddMaxx]

KuruptU4Fun, on 09 August 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

All you have to do is click on the forum, and all the new player is at the top. As I like to say for those who try to make that point about the suffering of pugs is:

Ignorance is Bliss, you can solve the problem by informing yourself. It's not on us to do it for you.

Actually K, many of the "us" you mention have done some great work to provide any NEW players Tips, Tricks, Builds, etc. etc. etc. etc. and as you noted, can be found on these exact Forums.

More new players should spend more time in the Help Me Threads reading up, then go to the Training area. "Yes, good advice Maxx. But it is soooo boring in there. No one is shooting back".

Well, wth. Then you can't really complain when you don't at learn the basics, then when you do your first drop, it is into an area where the enemy DO shoot back.

MWO is not an easy starter game. If that is a bad thing, then I am unsure what to say. Not every game a player tries will be to there liking. I have tried many, many games over the years, and I certainly did not like all of them. But that did not mean those I didn't like weren't perfectly good and playable games.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 09 August 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

MaddMaxx, on 09 August 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Actually K, many of the "us" you mention have done some great work to provide any NEW players Tips, Tricks, Builds, etc. etc. etc. etc. and as you noted, can be found on these exact Forums.

More new players should spend more time in the Help Me Threads reading up, then go to the Training area. "Yes, good advice Maxx. But it is soooo boring in there. No one is shooting back".

Well, wth. Then you can't really complain when you don't at learn the basics, then when you do your first drop, it is into an area where the enemy DO shoot back.

MWO is not an easy starter game. If that is a bad thing, then I am unsure what to say. Not every game a player tries will be to there liking. I have tried many, many games over the years, and I certainly did not like all of them. But that did not mean those I didn't like weren't perfectly good and playable games.

I agree with you wholeheartedly Maxx, This game has a hard learning curve and the only real way to best find a way to overcome it is to team up, use comms and play play play. I myself have offered the same suggestions and help you have.
There is another "training area" in the pipeline, where opposing mechs move and shoot back. But until it happens we have what we have. No amount of QQ threads is going to change that.

[Homeless Bill]

Meh. I PUG 3/4 the time, and I've got a pretty good KDR and WLR. It's about working as a team, even when you're with PUGs. It's not ideal, but it's really not as bad as most of you make it out to be.

[Alexandrix]

What they should do is implement built in voice chat.But that's not going to happen anytime soon because they'd rather have 3rd person view evidently.

So the message should say
"Team up or bend over.Your choice."
With an HTML link to the TS servers and a TS download page.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Alexandrix, on 09 August 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

What they should do is implement built in voice chat.But that's not going to happen anytime soon because they'd rather have 3rd person view evidently.

So the message should say
"Team up or bend over.Your choice."
With an HTML link to the TS servers and a TS download page.

Again, if people would read that in voice game chat is not available "yet". The amount of threads pertaining to it that do not relate to gameplay balance but more towards feature suggestions would find better responses than we give here.

[MaddMaxx]

Alexandrix, on 09 August 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

What they should do is implement built in voice chat.But that's not going to happen anytime soon because they'd rather have 3rd person view evidently.

So the message should say
"Team up or bend over.Your choice."
With an HTML link to the TS servers and a TS download page.

And when asked. "Would you use a in-game Comm system?" many responded. What and listen to the children scream and shout. No thanks, I will use 3rd party thanks where the kids are not allowed.

Great to have, but having it does not assure "everyone" will use it though. Priorities list Item #356.

[Alexandrix]

MaddMaxx, on 09 August 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

And when asked. "Would you use a in-game Comm system?" many responded. What and listen to the children scream and shout. No thanks, I will use 3rd party thanks where the kids are not allowed.

Great to have, but having it does not assure "everyone" will use it though. Priorities list Item #356.

The "listen to kids screaming and yelling" is a bogus response,and not a good reason to NOT have a built in voice chat in an online/MMO game now days.Planetside 2 for example has a great built in voice chat.Most outfits don't even have teamspeak servers because the in game voice chat is just that good.It's very easy to just hit escape and mute anyone that's being annoying.It's very easy to control everyone's volume,and even what channels you want to hear.Know how often I hear a spammer on proximity chat in PS2? about once to twice week,which gets shut down in about 2 mouse clicks.And planetside 2 is even a massive game with hundreds of people in the same area at once.Yes yes,i know different game,different engine,all that jazz.Simple fact of the matter is,not having a good built in voice solution in this day and age is pathetic.

Especially so when you have people using third party software for voice chat steam rolling unsuspecting nubs day in and day out.

Edited by Alexandrix, 09 August 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[Dreamslave]

Purlana, on 09 August 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Warning MWO is a team based FPS?

It is? Jeez I better find a unit ASAP!

[KuruptU4Fun]

Alexandrix, on 09 August 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

The "listen to kids screaming and yelling" is a bogus response,and not a good reason to NOT have a built in voice chat in an online/MMO game now days.Planetside 2 for example has a great built in voice chat.It's very easy to just hit escape and mute anyone that's being annoying.It's very easy to control everyone's volume,and even what channels you want to hear.Know how often I hear a spammer on proximity chat in PS2? about once to twice week,which gets shut down in about 2 mouse clicks.And planetside 2 is even a massive game with hundreds of people in the same area at once.Yes yes,i know different game,different engine,all that jazz.Simple fact of the matter is,not having a good built in voice solution in this day and age is pathetic.

Especially so when you have people using third party software for voice chat steam rolling unsuspecting nubs day in and day out.

Whether the game has in game VC or not, teams will still use 3rd party chats. So your point is kind of moot.

[Alexandrix]

KuruptU4Fun, on 09 August 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Whether the game has in game VC or not, teams will still use 3rd party chats. So your point is kind of moot.

No,it isn't.The point is that everyone would then have an equal footing of communication by default.Unless you think trying to type out information in the heat of battle is just as easy as instantly communicating via voice without having to take your focus off of dodging/shooting/playing?

Communication is the only real divide between the average teamspeak premade and the pugs.At least from what i can gather from the very few times I've bothered to join TS.The general pool of players there is just as good or crappy as your average pug.No better,no worse.Joining a TS premade doesn't magically make anyone a super awesome elite mechwarrior.The only difference is the ability to relay information quickly and efficiently without losing focus on the game.Well,that and being able to coordinate builds with your team mates,which is also a big deal.

Put everyone on equal footing from the start,and I guarantee you will see different results.

Edited by Alexandrix, 09 August 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Arkadash]

Homeless Bill, on 09 August 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Meh. I PUG 3/4 the time, and I've got a pretty good KDR and WLR. It's about working as a team, even when you're with PUGs. It's not ideal, but it's really not as bad as most of you make it out to be.

This has been my experience, too.