26 replies to this topic

[Primal Pharaoh]

Love the game, had fun learning and playing last night. Having done some more research I think I'm going to go with a Trebuchet or Hunchback as my first mech and go for a striker role. When it comes to choosing, say a Trebuchet, what do the different choices do for me. For example, I see a TBT-3C and TBT-5J, if you're able to customize your mech anyway, does it matter which of the choices I go with? Would I be able to customize any of them out the same way or do I have to be careful in choosing before hand so I can customize it to my play style?

[Ingga Raokai]

3C have higher speed cap
5J one with JJ ability and traded 1 missile slot for 1 energy slot

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

You need 3 chassis to master a mech.

And I think HBK is a nice choice, specially SP. In general they are beefier than TBT, and have a hunch (...)

Edited by gamemania666, 09 August 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[DEMAX51]

Different variants of the same 'Mech can have a few unique qualities (or "quirks") such as:

different numbers and types of weapon hardpoints
different stats for torso twist degree and speed
different ratings for max engine size
the ability to use jump jets or not

For instance, using the trebs you mentioned:

the 5J has jump jets, the 3C does not
the 5J has 5 laser hardpoints and 1 missile, the 3c has 4 laser and 2 missile
the 3c can hold a much larger engine (390) than the 5J (325)

You can only "customize" your mech within the limits of its design. You do not have free-range of customization.

Edited by DEMAX51, 09 August 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[zraven7]

Different Mechs have different hardpoints. These hardpoints determine which kinds of weapons you can equip onto a mech.

The 3C and the 5J are very, very different mechs. The 3C can equip up to a 390 size engine, giving it very high potential speed. owever, it has no jump jet capabilities, and has one of it's energy slots in it's chest, limiting it to 1 slot. The 5J can only equip up to a 325 engine, but has Jump Jet capability, and has all it's energy points in it's arms.

Personally, when it comes to Trebuchets, I believe you need to get the one's with the Jump Jets, or get a Hunchback or a Centurion. There is nothing a non-Jump Jet Trebuchet model can do that a Centurion or a Hunchback can't do better. However, the Jump Jet models bring a maneuverability and attack dynamic that you can't get out of Hunchies or Cents.

[Primal Pharaoh]

If I'm going for high speed hit and run close combat, would I be better off going with a centurion or hunchback and go for faster movement instead of having the jump jets then?

[Koniving]

I recommend looking at the variants through here.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

Click "No mech selected", then choose a mech chassis, then the variant. You'll see different hardpoint limits (E for energy, B for ballistic, M for Missile, ECM for Electronic Counter Measures, AMS for Anti-Missile System and so on).

With the Trebuchets the biggest difference you will notice is in the 7K.

For Hunchbacks, you will notice much more dramatic differences, and each one plays a bit differently.

[DEMAX51]

I would say a Centurion-9D is the way to go - it's an awesome striker build, and very survivable with a standard engine.

[Wintersdark]

I'd definitely recommend the Centurion if you're going for a non-jump speedy striker, or a jump capable trebuchet if you're after jump jets.

Many will recommend Hunchbacks for newbies - it's true that their default loadouts are all pretty decent, and all around they're good mechs, but while they were once the darlings of the starter mechs I personally believe that to no longer be true.

The reality is that in the current game, mediums are pretty vulnerable due to lower overall armor. The Centurion and Trebuchets both can get pretty speedy, but the hunchback is limited to an anemic 260 engine - this caps it's speed around 80kph.

Further, due to how damage transfer works, and how the hitboxes are made, a Centurion is far, far more durable than a Hunchback can ever hope to be. I personally feel that the Centurion line is the best medium line hands down (though I'm not a Cent pilot myself), and very rewarding for new players as it's so much more durable with the same amount of armor.

[zraven7]

Primal Pharaoh, on 09 August 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

If I'm going for high speed hit and run close combat, would I be better off going with a centurion or hunchback and go for faster movement instead of having the jump jets then?

The Centurion is one of the best striker mechs in the game, and when played right, they are ridiculously durable. The can be a little trickier to play than a hunchie, but I still see them all the time, and I've been killed by them plenty. The only reason to chose a Trebuchet over a Centurion is if you want Jump Jets. Hunchbacks are more support-fire mechs, really.

[Koniving]

Edit 2: Clarity, added in the benefit and risk of Kintaro.

Primal Pharaoh, on 09 August 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

If I'm going for high speed hit and run close combat, would I be better off going with a centurion or hunchback and go for faster movement instead of having the jump jets then?

Centurion, 9D or A. Remember that their engines can be changed to go faster.
Hunchback 4SP and 4P can do it too, but they can't quite go as fast (92 kph cap, where the Centurions go early 100s). 4SP and 4P are also dirt cheap to make, so easier on the pocket. Few changes necessary.

If you wait until the third week of the month, Kintaros will be coming out. They cap at 116 kph. They have zero risk for XL engines due to their hitbox design (but high risk to their center torsos).

A centurion vid I was in, though it's not mine. The in the The advice contained in the video is useful for the following mechs:

• Mediums: Kintaro, Centurion, Hunchbacks 4P and 4SP (but since the 4P and 4SP are so much shorter it can brawl better), Cicadas.
  
• Heavies: Dragon, Quickdraw.

The advice is spaced out for a screen of reading, plenty of action, screen, action, screen, action.
Since I'm leading the pack I am usually the foremost (farthest ahead) Centurion in any group scene. I'm also the Cicada at the end dancing.

Edit: Fixed for English (can't believe they used to let me teach it to ESL students).

Edited by Koniving, 09 August 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Dan Nashe]

gamemania666, on 09 August 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

3C have higher speed cap
5J one with JJ ability and traded 1 missile slot for 1 energy slot

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

You need 3 chassis to master a mech.

And I think HBK is a nice choice, specially SP. In general they are beefier than TBT, and have a hunch (...)

Very nice presentation of all mechs side by side in a spreadsheet format.
Use this link every day.

Don't go hunchback. Max speed is too slow. Almost all heavies are just as fast or faster (except one phract variant).

Build what you want to run in smurfys. Then decide. You might find that a 275 standard gives you the weapons loadout you want. Then go cent. If you like lasers and jump jets, treb.

Personally I feel standard engine brawler striker on cent, fast long range on trebuchet with xl or fast light hunter with xl. Although a hunter.

The only reason to go hunch is for an ac20 if you can't afford the yen lo. Everything else cent, treb or kintaro (brand new!) Are better for.

Tl; dr: hunchback for an ac20 if yoj won't pay for a yen lo, yen lo for ac 20, cent for a 99 kph (with speed tweak) medium laser and srm boat. Treb for everything else.

Caveat, I am unfamiliar with kintaro builds. I think cents are tougher because of hitboxes, and I wasn't impressed with kintaro. 4 missile racks are just too heavy for a fast tough medium. And trebs will be more maneuverable for speed.

For a really fast med, I prefer the hardpoints on a treb 3c to a cent, that ac hardpoint on the cent d is wasted.

[Redshift2k5]

All mechs come with extremely specific hardpoints, maximum engine rating, as well as quirks such as turn rate and torso twist angle.

In some ways, yes, you need to be careful before you buy. some build you may wish to play can only be built on specific mechs, or may cost a lot of c-bills in order to outfit.

In other ways, different mechs may be capable of performing similar feats. If you want two AC-20s you have two totally different chassis that can build that with many different quirks. If you want a 'fast hit & run' mech, you have many chassis/variants to choose from with different maximum speeds, different weapon hardooints, etc.

[Aym]

Primal Pharaoh, on 09 August 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

If I'm going for high speed hit and run close combat, would I be better off going with a centurion or hunchback and go for faster movement instead of having the jump jets then?

In general I'd say Centurions are best for the striker role in the 50 ton category because of their excellent survivability with a standard engine, however the Jenner is not to be over-looked. That said the Centurions are an excellent chassis with plenty of good variants all well suited to the fast moving hit-and-run style. Of course this all assumes that SRMs continue to be viable/strong since fast moving Cents rely on them so heavily.

[Corvus Antaka]

hunchback 4G is an incredible AC/20 striker.

protect the hunch is your bible

[Wintersdark]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 August 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

hunchback 4G is an incredible AC/20 striker.

protect the hunch is your bible

here's the thing. Unless you're a very good pilot, you're not going to protect the hunch well enough. There are great hunchie pilots, but really, its a bad newbie mech these days. They're slow (no speed tweak yet and likely for some time) and terribly fragile in comparison to the Cent.

I think Hunchback recommendations are a holdover from The Old Days, but they're not very good newbie mechs now. They just get diced up by PPC/gauss fire from assaults and heavies. The 4sp is the most survivable, but even then nothing compared to a centurion.

[Corvus Antaka]

Wintersdark, on 10 August 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

here's the thing. Unless you're a very good pilot, you're not going to protect the hunch well enough. There are great hunchie pilots, but really, its a bad newbie mech these days. They're slow (no speed tweak yet and likely for some time) and terribly fragile in comparison to the Cent.

I think Hunchback recommendations are a holdover from The Old Days, but they're not very good newbie mechs now. They just get diced up by PPC/gauss fire from assaults and heavies. The 4sp is the most survivable, but even then nothing compared to a centurion.

just depends on the pilot i think. i hate the centurion, and TBH i dont find it that great a zombie mech when i run it, even though it can be annoying to kill sometimes.

[Aym]

People I've introduced to the game have found the Cent a great chassis. A lot of options from extra lasers to a ballistic in the arm, and good speed/survivability when built that way

[Wintersdark]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 August 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

just depends on the pilot i think. i hate the centurion, and TBH i dont find it that great a zombie mech when i run it, even though it can be annoying to kill sometimes.

The thing is, if you're recommending a mech to a new player, the Centurion is objectively sturdier than the Hunchback, with comparable firepower, and the opportunity for more speed.

Because of how the hitboxes work, and damage is transfered, a Centurion can use his destroyed arms to shield his (already very narrow) center torso. Hits against the shoulders (and they're very big) result in only 25% damage actually inflicted on the center torso.

The Hunchback, on the other hand, (SP excepted) has a huge, glaring weakness, and one that works in the opposite way. It's a fire magnet, and is extremely difficult to protect. Even in low-elo ranges where newbies will play, opponents will be hitting the hunch more often than not simple because it's so damn big.

I'm not saying the Hunchback is a bad mech. I know it's a personal favourite of many players, particularly a lot of "old school" players if you will. However, it's simply, objectively, not as sturdy as a Centurion.

I'm not even a medium pilot. I hate the things in general. But it's been my experience since November that Hunchback's are really easy to put down, while Centurions outlast Atlases, particularly in the midrange elo and below - because players don't know(or can't) that you must hit the very tiny CT or leg them to actually kill them in any reasonable time frame.

This is why I caution new players against Hunchbacks. When piloted without decent skill, they get cut down extremely fast by high alpha heavies and assaults. Their only hope is that they get neglected as targets in favour of "higher threat" opponents... which is really not a strong defensive strategy.

New players learn more by staying alive longer, and the Centurion allows that at no cost: They don't sacrifice anything for that longevity, it's just a result of their hitbox allocation.

[scJazz]

The Trebuchet is the redheaded step child of the medium class. There is nothing that it can do that a Quickdraw can't do better more or less.

So the choice as always for Mediums comes down to Centurions or Hunchbacks, ignoring for the moment the fact that the Kintaro will be available shortly. The main advantage in choosing Hunchbacks is the fact that there are many variants and all of them are cheap. The Centurion is a stunningly durable mech but the drawback is that 1 of the 3 basic variants costs as much as 2 Hunchbacks/Centurions. One of the other 3 variants is a Hero mech that costs $$$.

That is the crux of the matter in a nutshell. Hunchbacks, cheap and plentiful. Centurions, not cheap or plentiful.

[Wintersdark]

scJazz, on 10 August 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

The Trebuchet is the redheaded step child of the medium class. There is nothing that it can do that a Quickdraw can't do better more or less.

...except give the other team another medium, instead of a heavy - likely a Cataphract, Jag, or some such.

Quote

So the choice as always for Mediums comes down to Centurions or Hunchbacks, ignoring for the moment the fact that the Kintaro will be available shortly. The main advantage in choosing Hunchbacks is the fact that there are many variants and all of them are cheap. The Centurion is a stunningly durable mech but the drawback is that 1 of the 3 basic variants costs as much as 2 Hunchbacks/Centurions. One of the other 3 variants is a Hero mech that costs $$$.

That is the crux of the matter in a nutshell. Hunchbacks, cheap and plentiful. Centurions, not cheap or plentiful.

Hunchbacks and Centurions are both roughly 3.5m cbills. The only expensive Centurion is so because it includes an XL300 engine - this is a very valuable engine, and ideal in a great many mechs. Even if you don't use it in the Cent (and there's many reasons not to) nobody cries because they have an XL300 in their mechbay.