483 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 12 August 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

im sorta concerned over dysncing ppc & gauss. I tend to use 1 PPC & 1 gauss, and while it's a decent punch it's only 25 damage. desyncing this basically completely nurfs the build and makes it even worse & more useless for fighting lights.

Still, 25 pinpoint damage with current weapon numbers is quite advantageous, and desyncing gauss and ppc could in theory do what linking guns did - make pinpointing damage harder as the aimer must land consecutive shots to 1 location.

gonna have to wait and see for now i suppose.

Sorta with you on this. If it breaks up convergence only I am fine with it. My Atlas throws 64 point Alphas, including 1 Gauss and 1 ERPPC. Not a soul has complained about my Alphas to date. Even when my Alphas were over 70 (Pre SRM nerf)

[Drollzy]

We no longer see 3ppc and gauss builds being used - which is great.
6PPC Stalkers were ridicules and good riddance.
PPC cool down was increased which has seen a reduction in DPS.
Shake was added to Jumping which was an awesome idea now not just anyone with jump jets can pop tart.
Base heat was increased for PPC's.

Brawlers shouldn't be able to just run in the open to get within range and sniping has always been a part of modern warfare.

I still use my brawlers to good effect gone are the days when you can charge hell bent into the fray and tactical awareness is now a requirement when using these classes which I think is a good thing.

People like my self who play from Australia or over seas have recently had the opportunity to use ballistic style weapons thanks to the HSR (Prior to this these weapons were ignored due to the lag). This has given an even playing ground for all players and all we have seen is an increase in the number of players using these weapons giving the false impression that its being abused.

Its a numbers game 'x' amount could use them before and now 'y' amount can.

I'm sure i play on the same servers and against the same players as everyone else and with the right tactics i love bagging snipers and especially LRM boats. Harden up adapt to the game don'y make the game adapt to you.

Chronojam, on 12 August 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Curiously, you also cannot have 8% whine and 98% be fine, unless the playerbase has grown to 106% of what it was before (does not seem to be the case).

HAHAH Ok Ok i cant count but you get what i mean

[Chronojam]

You aren't seeing the forest for the trees, here. The "real" problem is that one kind of play, and one particular fitting, has been dominant for over half a year -- that particular play/fitting makes mechs die really quickly without much actual battle. PPCs are not the problem, Gauss Rifles are not the problem.

Make mechs live longer and battles last longer, and make the other weapons more competitive. More options is a good thing.

[Chronojam]

cdrolly, on 12 August 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

6PPC Stalkers were ridicules and good riddance.

They were never a "real" build, and are part of why decreasing the heat cap (changing how heatsinks work) is a good idea that has come up and would be a far better way to limit massed fire than ghost heat. You'd organically want to fire fewer PPCs simultaneously without having weird, hidden per-weapon settings and penalties to memorize plus it wouldn't feel like penalizing a specific build or unfairly impacting certain weapons (why were SRM2s affected by ghost-heat, but not LRM5 launchers? It comes across as unintuitive and unfair once you realize it is happening).

To be super clear, the 6PPC Stalker was never a serious/competitive build. It could earn kills, but it wasn't efficient/effective. There are better ways to make it appear sillier --while improving overall gameplay-- than adding byzantine new mechanics specifically because you dislike mechs that carry more than two PPCs at once.

[Bors Mistral]

Niko Snow, on 12 August 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Question from Solis Obscuri:[color=#959595] Why do you consider the 2xPPC+Gauss high-alpha build which nearly everyone has been using for the last three months a lesser balance problem than firing three Large Lasers or four SRM-4s at the same time?[/color]

Answer from Paul:[color=#959595] The assumption that we think the 2PPC+Gauss is a lesser problem than any of the other high alpha builds, is incorrect. We have looked at what we can do with the build in question and have come up with a plan to de-sync the firing times of PPC and Gauss and keeping the Gauss as a primary long-range weapon. More information on this will be made available as soon as we get the feature ready to test.[/color]

How about, you know, giving Gauss, PPC and ERPPC different projectile speeds instead, eh? That might actually help.

edit: Unless by "de-sync the firing times" you mean giving PPC and ERPPC a charge-up time, which would work nicely too.

Edited by Bors Mistral, 12 August 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[FupDup]

Ghost heat, ghost delay, ghost answers...it would appear that the devs prefer pretty much anything with "ghost" in it.

[Joseph Mallan]

cdrolly, on 12 August 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

We no longer see 3ppc and gauss builds being used - which is great.
6PPC Stalkers were ridicules and good riddance.
PPC cool down was increased which has seen a reduction in DPS.
Shake was added to Jumping which was an awesome idea now not just anyone with jump jets can pop tart.
Base heat was increased for PPC's.

Brawlers shouldn't be able to just run in the open to get within range and sniping has always been a part of modern warfare.

I still use my brawlers to good effect gone are the days when you can charge hell bent into the fray and tactical awareness is now a requirement when using these classes which I think is a good thing.

People like my self who play from Australia or over seas have recently had the opportunity to use ballistic style weapons thanks to the HSR (Prior to this these weapons were ignored due to the lag). This has given an even playing ground for all players and all we have seen is an increase in the number of players using these weapons giving the false impression that its being abused.

Its a numbers game 'x' amount could use them before and now 'y' amount can.

I'm sure i play on the same servers and against the same players as everyone else and with the right tactics i love bagging snipers and especially LRM boats. Harden up adapt to the game don'y make the game adapt to you.



HAHAH Ok Ok i cant count but you get what i mean

So in other words, a brawler should have some long range capability so they can be of use while closing to max effective range? How amazing is that kind of thinking.

[Dakkath]

Bors Mistral, on 12 August 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

How about, you know, giving Gauss, PPC and ERPPC different projectile speeds instead, eh? That might actually help.

I tend to think that they do not need to muck with desynching but merely adjust recycle times on the guns.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 12 August 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Ghost heat, ghost delay, ghost answers...it would appear that the devs prefer pretty much anything with "ghost" in it.

With all these Ghosts... Mediums should come back into vogue!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 August 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[Sybreed]

sniper weapons should have the disadvantage of having a slow rate of fire, that's how it's done in all other self respected competitive FPS games. Miss your shot, you're in trouble. Don't miss it, the other guy is in trouble.

He got in closed range? Sucks to be you. Get ready to feel the pain.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Sybreed, on 12 August 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

sniper weapons should have the disadvantage of having a slow rate of fire, that's how it's done in all other self respected competitive FPS games. Miss your shot, you're in trouble. Don't miss it, the other guy is in trouble.

He got in closed range? Sucks to be you. Get ready to feel the pain.

But WHY is this such a complicated concept? That takes unnecessary and nonsensical mechanics to fix!?

[Deathlike]

cdrolly, on 12 August 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

We no longer see 3ppc and gauss builds being used - which is great.

I still use it and succeed. Maybe we're not on the same ELO brackets to show what the meta still is.

[Sybreed]

MisterFiveSeven, on 12 August 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

But WHY is this such a complicated concept? That takes unnecessary and nonsensical mechanics to fix!?

cause I'm not MWO's lead dev

[Anjian]

Desynching PPCs and Gauss won't bother me at all. While I often played 2 PPCs and a Gauss, they are always set in separate groups, first mouse button for Gauss, second for 2 PPCs. Somehow I always find I get more kills, better performance in a game that way.

While 6 PPC Stalkers are ridiculous, 4 PPC Stalkers --- using chained fire --- are still very good but you really cannot fault them for that. In general, Stalkers are just very good at what they do at the hands of a good pilot whether its a PPC sniper, an LRM boat or a brawler with lasers and SRMs.

As for medium mech buffs, it does appear that fortunately they are looking at things. I wish they would be more specific, as to include reducing or fixing hitboxes, improving agility and reducing mech scales. I wish they would include fixes on that major flop of a Kintaro.

It is good that they are paying attention to the Awesome. For me, fixing old mechs is as good as bringing a new one in.

I like what I hear about the new maps. Terra Therma quite frankly blows. Its a map suitable for an RPG, not a shooter.

I am always quite prepared for changes in the meta, and in fact, the meta has been gradually changing, one that involves a lot more SRM brawling and closer fighting. That's like turning full circle before the era of PPC dominance. I switched my Cataphract 2X for example, from 2 PPC and Gauss (yes, in separate groups), to 2 PPCs and 2 SRM6s. PPCs have been removed from my Highlanders and Victors; I call them Splatlanders now for a reason. I am having an absolute blast and my kills have improved, but best yet, it has given me the confidence even to take on brawling Stalkers and Atlases one on one, and still win. The design approach in my mechs lately is that for a given total damage, a greater proportion of that damage should be balanced or shifted to non energy weapons (missiles and ballistics). If for say, my Highlander does 69 damage, only 18 of that damage is only from energy weapons (2 LLAS), the remainder is from 3 SRM6 batteries and a Gauss rifle. This allows me to deal with an increasing number of hot maps in rotation, and cooler mechs means higher damage output over time in a brawl.

if you are still sticking to 2 PPC and a Gauss, I think the problem can't be blamed on the game, but you need to start experimenting and trying out new combinations.

Edited by Anjian, 12 August 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[Ter Ushaka]

ATD 44, in a visual sense:

[BlackJackRaider]

I have a twelve year old cousin who has never played an FPS or Mechwarrior game before. She could do a better job balancing this game, and would also have the honesty to admit it if she frakked it up. This is why ATD is worthless. PGI can't analyze data/criticism and respond with reasonable balance changes to save their lives.

What we should do is petition valve to buy this IP and game and straighten it all back out. I trust their work with DOTA 2 and Team Fortress, they can certainly handle this game better than the rank amateurs who unfortunately are in charge of MWO.

[Lastone]

What did I expect....

Answers...

What did we get...

Nothing really.

[Roland]

Lemming, on 12 August 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Ghost Fire: The Magnum Opus 2: The Double Down

This is pure gold right here.

[Anjian]

I think desynch means in effect, the 2 PPCs and the Gauss can't be fired at the same time, even if grouped and in alpha. What happens would be like 2 PPCs shoot off first, then followed by the Gauss. The effect would be more like chained fire, but instead of PPC, PPC and Gauss, it would be like 2 PPC, then Gauss.

[Anjian]

Personally I think PGI should just remove the ghost heat and desynch all alphas period. Instead of all the weapons firing at the same time, it would be like a automatic rapid chain link between the weapons, with the rapidity between the weapons set as a controllable variable that can be retuned later for game balance.