483 replies to this topic

[Mvrck]

Chronojam, on 12 August 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Probably the fact it took more effort than just this sort of drive-by crap you're pulling right now, had basically every remaining competitive team worth a damn invited/involved, and ended up with several thousands worth of players represented in a concise letter directly to PGI.

And you know what? A lot of refugees from teams that gave up, and solo players, also signed up. It's hard to not give up sometimes.

No one is debating the effort, we're saying you message sucked and you picked a horribly way to brand it and get it across. So congratulations, you're guilty of exactly what you complain about PGI doing.

[Squid von Torgar]

I signed your letter guys, because initially I thought your conduct was worthy of a punt. Now it seems you are showing your true colours.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Mvrck, on 12 August 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

No one is debating the effort, we're saying you message sucked and you picked a horribly way to brand it and get it across. So congratulations, you're guilty of exactly what you complain about PGI doing.

Ignoring the user base? and spinning lie after lie?

[GreatBeer]

Mvrck, on 12 August 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

No one is debating the effort, we're saying you message sucked and you picked a horribly way to brand it and get it across. So congratulations, you're guilty of exactly what you complain about PGI doing.

Gross incompetence on a corporate scale? Failure to understand basic gameplay concepts?

[Overon]

TOGSolid, on 12 August 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

[redacted]



The level of entitlement here is pretty funny. What exactly makes you think that your "townhall" would garner more attention than a really active forum thread?

Yes I'm asking for too much, clearly. Nothing says entitlement like "we acknowledge you exist." To answer your question I think a townhall would garner more attention because it was organized and people signed a common document and there was actual concensus agreed upon. If there was no concensus in the document, you didn't sign it. That's why concensus documents merit more attention than a forum thread.

[Zphyr]

Thank you for your time to not-answer.

Aside from the possible de-sync of PPC/Gauss (what does that mean anyway?), it's simply another batch of basically worthless answers and empty promises. Disappointing, yet again. *sigh*

Edited by Zphyr, 12 August 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Mvrck]

Sorry Niko

Edited by Mvrck, 12 August 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[Lemming]

Mvrck, on 12 August 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

If you want to break down why PGI isn't acknowledging you, it's because you guys have a terrible brand and terrible message. From the outside, the #savemwo theme implies to anyone even remotely interested that you think the game is a doomed failure. Right away any casual fans or new players to the game that happen upon your campaign are turned off to playing and will question their decision. On top of that, you're insulting the thousands of collective hours the developers have put into this game in an extremely negative manner. Couple that with annoying entitled attitudes on the forums here and you wonder why you were ignored?

The very first bullet point from the question via #savemwo is basically a whine about how you're just pissed PGI isn't listening to you. The reason they aren't listening to you is your message is entirely negative, it's bad press, and you're not actually working at all constructively with PGI in any way shape or form. Obviously that's probably not what you were aiming for, but you fell short and that's what you have.

Edit: In fairness to Gwaihir, I don't know if he's actually part of #savemwo. If you aren't then my apologies for lumping you in with them.

Why is it so bad that somebody has made an actual effort to coordinate sections of the community to send a more or less unified message to the developers that they have issues where the game is going? Also, why are you guys so quick to point out bias and lack of objectivity or whatever instead of addressing the specific issues on their own merits? There has been a lot of thought and effort gone into addressing specific points, and a lot of these concerns have been backed up with clear thought and evidence.

Also, the point of the townhall was not necessarily to come up with completely innovative issues with the game, the point was to gather a bunch of disparate groups to try to come together and form some sort of consensus. This way, you couldn't use the defense of "oh it's just a few posters in a few threads who are complaining, it's not a significant amount of people." It's not necessarily going to make anybody change their mind, but it does show there is some unity in the complaints.

If everything was a result of bias, then it should be easy to debunk the issues rather than the people bringing them to light. Why is your tactic to attack the messenger rather than the message?

[Gwaihir]

Personally, reasoned measured feedback has been something I and many others have provided since the earliest days of closed beta. It's been duly ignored in favor of 6 months of no simple weapons balancing, then ~GHOST HEAT~ and the new, upcoming ~GHOST DELAY~.

The townhall was a hail mary attempt to get anything at all, since it's clear which way the game is heading. Given the environment of the last 6 months, I personally didn't expect anything to really come of it, (Officially), but it was worth a try.

e: Woo I made it to page 6!

Edited by Gwaihir, 12 August 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[1Marius]

PGI and :
ac10 + 2 ppc
2uac/ 3uac + ppc
3-4 ac2
ac20 + ppc
nerf nerf nerf ......
or dont listen to nnooobs.

[Name140704]

I don't read these anymore. Bill has been summing them up, I just scroll down.

[Lemming]

Gwaihir, on 12 August 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

Personally, reasoned measured feedback has been something I and many others have provided since the earliest days of closed beta. It's been duly ignored in favor of 6 months of no simple weapons balancing, then ~GHOST HEAT~ and the new, upcoming ~GHOST DELAY~.

The townhall was a hail mary attempt to get anything at all, since it's clear which way the game is heading. Given the environment of the last 6 months, I personally didn't expect anything to really come of it, (Officially), but it was worth a try.

100% agree with this. I didn't expect a response because it does put the developers in a position where they would need to acknowledge reasonable criticism of their decisions, but it sure would have been nice and given me more confidence in the direction of the game.

It's also literally the most reasonable option that a community has to do that is both non-combative and constructive. Instead of doing something more radical, but negative, like trying to organize a boycott, or something pointless like going into full-rage mode and just shitposting on the forums and griefing in game, the point of it was to try to get people together to show a united front of how they feel the direction of the game is going. Anybody who says that the town hall wasn't an objectively good thing for the game and for the community is showing their own bias, to be honest. Zero percent of the message was pointlessly spiteful in any way, and while there were complaints, they were backed up with clear reasoning and framed in a constructive manner with possible solutions.

[Uba]

So to recap:

- PGI listens more to a small group of players whose only interest is self preservation as opposed to 5000 or so players organizing and explaining their dissatisfaction with the game.

- They're dissolving the forums and restricting most of the communications to Reddit (a terrible tool for discussion) and their own sponsored/supported "totally not affiliated" podcast.


Am I missing anything?

Edited by Uba, 12 August 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[MechFrog1]

Squid von Torgar, on 12 August 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

I signed your letter guys, because initially I thought your conduct was worthy of a punt. Now it seems you are showing your true colours.

Ignore people long enough and they tend to be less polite. You'd expect no more from other downtrodden and ignored communities.

[GaussDragon]

Gwaihir, on 12 August 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

Personally, reasoned measured feedback has been something I and many others have provided since the earliest days of closed beta. It's been duly ignored in favor of 6 months of no simple weapons balancing, then ~GHOST HEAT~ and the new, upcoming ~GHOST DELAY~.

Precisely this. Many of us tried to give reasoned responses, then saw them get completely disregarded, nerfed the SRMs to the ground, watched the sniping game explode then work in this ghost heat mechanic as the solution (at the same time as a partial SRM) rebuff. Come on. How can you possibly expect people to remain constructive when balance turns into a bigger /facepalm fiesta month after month? The cherry on the cake was how many votes certain questions got for ATD #44 only to be completely disregarded. Why would we remain constructive when it was never shown to work in the first place?

We're frustrated with you guys constantly not being able to discern noise from thought. We aren't a bunch of people going MUH IMMERSIONS! or BUT A DICE GAME 30 YEARS AGO.... We got together and discussed more specific problems; 'x attempts to do y but instead causes z and here's 1, 2, 3 and 4 as well as to why r is more akin to s than k'.

edit: ran outta likes for today; too much good posting

Edited by GaussDragon, 12 August 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

GaussDragon, on 12 August 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Precisely this. Many of us tried to give reasoned responses, then saw them get completely disregarded, nerfed the SRMs to the ground, watched the sniping game explode then work in this ghost heat mechanic as the solution (at the same time as a partial SRM) rebuff. Come on. How can you possibly expect people to remain constructive when balance turns into a bigger /facepalm fiesta month after month? The cherry on the cake was how many votes certain questions got for ATD #44 only to be completely disregarded. Why would we remain constructive when it was never shown to work in the first place?

This

[AceTimberwolf]

Niko Snow, on 12 August 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

---

Question from Mechiro:What will happen to Command Console component and Advanced Zoom module on the launch date, will they stay as they are right now?
Command Console does nothing other than taking place and weight when mounted.
Advanced Zoom does not work as expected:
current zoom level returns to 1x and shows blurry image where almost nothing can be seen, and after being turned off zoom level remains 1x (does not return to previous level).
mechs are indistinguishable, triangles that show friend or foe are constantly moving back and forth to match zoom levels of 1x and 4x.

Answer from David: The exact nature of how the Command Console will work keeps changing and evolving. It’s possible but unlikely that it will be updated before launch. Hopefully we can get it in not too long after, but it’s currently not scheduled.
Regarding Advanced Zoom, that has admittedly gotten left by the wayside. It’s still too expensive to properly render a picture in picture zoom like that, but we probably should take another look at that module, and find some ways to make it more viable.

---

On the Topic of Zoom: Why Not Make Zoom module work like MW3 Zoom where it is only on the free reticle. Less Area taken up on the front screen rendering a much smaller area and the benefit of having the Zoom Module is that you can still have clear view of your surroundings while you are Sniping. It is a more Elegant way of using the module and you can even have different setups like A Circle Zoom or Triangle Zoom which can be MC to Decided which one you like best. Just an Idea

PS: Even if it not a welcomed Idea would it be possible in the engine?

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 12 August 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Quinton]

Everyone should remember, PGI has no interest beyond what they think will make them more money. Time and again they have ignored thousands of players on various issues in order to steer the game to a more casual, mindless demopgraphic. No amount of rational argument, or open letters with thousands of signatures will change any minds. You guys want change? then do the only thing that will get their attention, vote with your wallets, or lack thereof. Take a dollar out of their hands, and watch them change the world to get it back.

[Royalewithcheese]

Quote

We have looked at what we can do with the build in question and have come up with a plan to de-sync the firing times of PPC and Gauss and keeping the Gauss as a primary long-range weapon. More information on this will be made available as soon as we get the feature ready to test.

I've got my fingers crossed that this is something logical like a projectile speed change and not 2 Ghost Heat 2 Furious.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 12 August 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[The Wolfpack75]

Thank you for the answers. Looking forward to Aug 20th to see the update. New maps, etc

Overall, I guess I am in the minority that like the game and look forward to seeing the finished product.

Keep up the good work.

Rio