63 replies to this topic

[Farix]

First everyone complained about the dual gauss rifles, dual AC/20s and StreakCats. Then came the SplatCats and eveyrone complained about those. After taking an extended break, I come back to the reign of the 6 PPC Stalker and other 4+ PPC builsd. Now the newest complaints are about the2 PPC+Gauss builds. Sooner or later, I expect people to complain about quad AC/5s and tri-UAC/5s builds or builds that utilize more than one AC/10.

So exactly how much damage should there be in a single pinpoint strike? Is it 20, 25, 30, more more? Or should there be no cap at all?

Edited by Farix, 13 August 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

They'll continue to cry until nothing shot at them is big enough to kill them.

[Joseph Mallan]

See I am fine with 40 point Alphas (AS IS) it eats armor exactly like I am used to a single AC20 doing. Two of any Converging weapons is totally fine on my island.

OneEyed Jack, on 13 August 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

They'll continue to cry until nothing shot at them is big enough to kill them.

And the killing blow can never land.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

If you are talking about convergence you missed the point. Any amount of pinpoint damage is fine assuming the weapons have converged. But if you are talking about instant under the retiical snapshot damage, it is 1 weapons worth..

If you are are talkinga about heat tax for multiple weapons, it is not based on damage, players who used to run 6 PPC can easily run 1 Gauss + 2 PPC + 2 ER Large and igore the heat tax.

[Karl Marlow]

That depends. Are we talking about your mech or my mech?

[Unbound Inferno]

Flamers and MGs as they are (damage over time) are fine, but other weapons need to be staggered in my book. One shot each then aim - at that point there is no reason to complain if someone has the skill to do it that way reliably hit damage at a location.

But... paired weapons aren't that bad. But it does become a bit of a hassle for when one shot like that can ruin a mech.

[Bhael Fire]

People will continue to whine about anything that kills them.

[Donnie Silveray]

The primary concern is just how many various weapon systems does it take to deliver it. Example:
My Atlas AS7D can do an alpha at 200m at over 75 damage. Granted the LRMs and SRMs spread the damage but we're still talking an AC20 and 4 medium lasers to the chest at 40 accurate damage then 12 from the SRMs scattered amongst the torso and 20+ damage from the LRMs hitting various points of the body. So is there a problem with this? After all, I'm doing well over 40 pinpoint damage over the course of 1 second. 50 if you consider the SRMs being well aimed.

The only reason people aren't complaining about Atlai knocking people over is the short optimal range to deliver that damage . So really, the main problem isn't 'Alpha' or 'Pinpoint'. It's range now. 2 PPCs and a Gauss can hit at over 800m and deal 35 damage. Hurts yes, but I believe the Devs will be removing the two weapon's synergy in some manner. Granted I hope it's a sane approach, like halving the PPC's speed possibly or other such modifications.

[Joseph Mallan]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 13 August 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

If you are talking about convergence you missed the point. Any amount of pinpoint damage is fine assuming the weapons have converged. But if you are talking about instant under the retiical snapshot damage, it is 1 weapons worth..

If you are are talkinga about heat tax for multiple weapons, it is not based on damage, players who used to run 6 PPC can easily run 1 Gauss + 2 PPC + 2 ER Large and igore the heat tax.

I disagree Agent... sorta. If I snap my ret over you an Alpha, Some of my weapons should hit other could miss, but few should converge. Once I took a snap shot at a Smoke Jaguar player as he rounded a corner. Pop, head capped. Probably the most thrilling moment in m MWO history.

[Chavette]

OneEyed Jack, on 13 August 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

They'll continue to cry until nothing shot at them is big enough to kill them.

Truth

It'll go on until everyone else is just ramboing in atlases too, and then theyll say youre cheating.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Since the best solution to pinpoint damage is to limit the ability of any number of weapons to have the same aim point without deviation, I voted 25 (the next option after 20, since the AC20 does 20 damage and any less would have to impact that weapon).

Note: when I say limiting aiming without deviation, I don't mean adding RNG. You can have constant and predictable deviation without adding any randomization at all, and which would likely be a sufficient limit on pin-point damage.

[Jman5]

If I were PGI, I would be looking for ways to make most pinpoint weapon groups no more than 20 damage. So 1 ac/20, 2 PPCs, 1 Gauss.

Once you go over 20 damage, you are making the game too hit or miss for smaller mechs. You go from fresh to crippled in a single moment. This will only get worse as hitboxes and netcode improve. PGI needs to start thinking about how they can keep a jenner from completely crumpling just because some cataphract 3d landed a lucky 35 alpha on his side torso.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jman5, on 13 August 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

If I were PGI, I would be looking for ways to make most pinpoint weapon groups no more than 20 damage. So 1 ac/20, 2 PPCs, 1 Gauss.

Once you go over 20 damage, you are making the game too hit or miss for smaller mechs. You go from fresh to crippled in a single moment. This will only get worse as hitboxes and netcode improve. PGI needs to start thinking about how they can keep a jenner from completely crumpling just because some cataphract 3d landed a lucky 35 alpha on his side torso.

But, but, but, SKILLZ!

60 point alpha=20 Right torso, 20 Center, 20 Right arm?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 August 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Urdnot Mau]

Usually 50 tonner mechs have 40 points of armor on side torsos. Any of those running XL engines is in danger of being one shooted. Dual AC 20 jaggers used to be the worse, but now you can get almost insta cored from 550m away. You see.. the problem is not only pinpoint high alpha damage but the costs involved behind such builds. AC 40's and dual Gauss are very vulnerable (not to mention Gauss bullet speed). Mechs above the CTF (including this one) can run this build with STD engine, JJ, lots of heat sinks and enough ammo for a match. They can bypass the cover factor wich most people use (and don't tell me about JJ shake).

What i mean is... it only takes 1 click to ruin a medium mech's game. And it's not like saying "yeah if you are reckless your game should be ruined" cause these guys can be sniped from 550m and behind cover.

[Belorion]

OneEyed Jack, on 13 August 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

They'll continue to cry until nothing shot at them is big enough to kill them.

Then they will cry that they can't kill anything.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

[Xanquil]

I voted for always for one reason. Any more than one weapon always hitting the same location at the same time is too much. a 40point alpha isn't too much if that isn't all applied to the same location.

[Corvus Antaka]

20 -25 a single ppc and 1 gauss is barely acceptable, anything over that combined with focus fire gets ugly way to fast.

[Khobai]

20 is the most that should be allowed. Anything beyond that pushes the limits of what battletech armor values can handle.

[Joseph Mallan]

But Combat is ugly, an so a combat game should not be pretty.

20!!! Dude that is nothing. You can't even strip a Commando's leg with that little Alpha! How wimpy are the players of this game?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 August 2013 - 04:31 PM.