53 replies to this topic

[Boyinleaves]

Almond Brown, on 25 August 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Premium Time is still a 50% bonus. It was 50% and remains @ 50%. Where is the LESS in that? The C-Bills per "microsecond played" has been reduced. Need to play more microseconds to compensate.

Do i seriously need to extrapolate the meaning of 'less effective'? If overall average earnings per time unit go down, so too does a percentage thereof, hence 'less effective'. Technically, premium time still does the same thing, but in real terms, there is a difference. I don't care either way, i don't feel any need to pay for premium time, and the money would be insignificant to me anyway, but this certainly matters to some people.

[Dan Nashe]

Two issues.
(1) lwer earnings no longer feel relevant to me. But I have two light chassis I like, 2 medium, 1 heavy and 2 assault. I can keep playing if it takes me 3-6 months to try another chassis.
So I'll stop spending money as my playtime goes down (new chassis are what I loved about the game). But ai'll keep playing.

(2) New players.
With tonnage limit a player NEEDS three elited chassis to join a team.
Say jenner, centurian and highlander.
That's over 100 million right there when you add in 3 variants, dhs x 9, a 300 xl engine. A 350 xl for the dff x 3, endo x 9, artemis x 7. A gaussr two, beagle ppcs to try new builds. Et cetra.

I used to earn 80k a match (check stats, over 2k games played).
Now that's 70k and games take 33 percent longer.

If you are new and not seriously focus grinding, that's 300k an hour (assuming 15 min snack and build breaks every hour).
Optimistically, call it 1 million per three hours .
Doub le that for no reason. (Add premium and optimism?).
150 hours, or 8-15 weeks before a serious gamer (10 hours a week is a lot for a hobby) before you can really play with a team.
In a team game.
Really?

Let's say they buy a champion.
They still need 25 million to play that one mech in a realway. (Just elite, not master).
Say they get premium.
After one month and $18 bucks, they have one mech.
They can barely play despite having spent more than wow would cost.
For a lance, they're at over $70. And 4 months?

Are new players really going to stick around?

(Nevermind no minimap means they won't understand what's happening, and non lights still can't see their legs in 3 pv and the reticle shake... but tha's another issue and I actually have no problem keeping 3 pv for all random 12s without a sparate queue :-)).


TL; DR I'm terrified this will cost mwo new players.

[BillyM]

Earnings shift will do little to run off new players that lack of tutorial, terrible new-user-experience, and ELO matching that continues to pit 4-man teams against brand new players, already hasn't done...

That said, I think it's folks like you who are having all the trouble with the earnings adjustment. Long time players who got used to the easy-road. The same folks who pugrolled in splatapults, 3l's and ddc's, poptarts, etc... Listen, don't like it? Buy the mechs with real money. PGI is welcome to balance earnings all they'd like and as long as they provide a fun/fair experience, people will still enjoy playing.

...the problem is that they don't necessarily provide a fun/fair experience. New users are abused and neglected, folks who want to run balanced stock-build mechs have no option, teams who want to drop against each-other repeatedly have no way to do so. Constant weapon-adjustment screwups, continually going back on their word, ignoring the player-base, and NOT YET PROVIDING ANY FORM OF COMMUNITY WARFARE...

THESE are the true issues and what should be focused on instead of your continued whining about how you don't make as much free game-money as you once did by playing a game you enjoy. I'm sick of it... Just shut up and play the game, or don't. ...just for the love of god quit waxing-on about how it'll scare off the new players, when you're obviously only worried about your own wallet.

I brought a half-dozen folks into the game and not a single one left due to "oh I don't make enough fake-money"...

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 27 August 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[IC Rafe]

BillyM, people have different experiences. I have quit the game basically, and so have people who i played with. All newer players who dont have a lot of time to play but want a fun experience.

Edit: you might not have an issue with what you earn due to the mech's you have/play and playstyle, but according to the forums a lot of people do have an issue with it, and insulting them that they think only of themselves doesn't really help your argument. (ofcource people only think of themselves, you too since you say you dont have an issue with the issues others have and which decreases their fun. Extra cbills for you would obviously only be an improvement too, and others earning more cbills will not affect you in any way, yet you say we whine)

Edited by IC Rafe, 27 August 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[Boyinleaves]

BillyM, on 27 August 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

PGI is welcome to balance earnings all they'd like and as long as they provide a fun/fair experience, people will still enjoy playing.

...the problem is that they don't necessarily provide a fun/fair experience. New users are abused and neglected, folks who want to run balanced stock-build mechs have no option, teams who want to drop against each-other repeatedly have no way to do so. Constant weapon-adjustment screwups, continually going back on their word, ignoring the player-base, and NOT YET PROVIDING ANY FORM OF COMMUNITY WARFARE...

This, plus other issues. Earnings need to be balanced against the gameplay and purchases that are on offer.

I would gladly just play the game for the enjoyment of it, but I rarely have friends to drop with, I can't matchmake my own games, I can't modify rulesets, new people that I introduce have a very hard time picking up and playing the game, and even if they do, it's a while before they can use a 'Mech that is competitive in the current setup; game modes and maps are very limited, and 'Mech chassis balance is basically irrelevant given the current weapon (im)balances. All of these factors have led to most of my friends having little to no interest in playing the game. I'd gladly join another regiment, but without some form of ordered competition available to utilise, it almost becomes a chore to do so.

I have had one mate stop playing recently due to the drop in earnings, when he was generally enjoying the game otherwise, so it happens. I had previously bought him a Phoenix Package, so hopefully when it drops, he may have some interest in playing again. Unfortunately, if there's not much more to do than there is presently, he very well may not come back.

[Plonky]

Audlyn, on 14 August 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

I understand peoples frustration with the drop in c-bill earnings...but at the same time, I can't help but feel that it was eventually going to happen.
Everybody says they should bring back R&R and up the boosts again, but to me, that would only make energy weapons reign supreme again.
For a game that you can get almost EVERYTHING for free...I don't see why this is such a big deal. Sure you have to play more...oh well. I play for fun, not to "grind"...but I guess not everyone can be like that.

You can't get "almost everything" for free. It takes time to get anything. That time is worth something. The lower the rate of CBill earning, the less likely that a player will get new "stuff" at a rate that keeps them interested in the game. For example, if you were stuck on the same mech for the first year of playing, you'd be much more likely to get bored than if you got a new mech every couple of weeks.

I don't think anyone plays the game to "grind", which is why there are so many people complaining about the reduction in CBill earnings. The game is, for a lot of people, becoming more grind than fun.

[RedThirteen]

In its current state MWO strongly discourages experimentation. It simply isn't financially viable to muck around with weapon builds. This will lead to most new players (if they get past the insane drop in CB gains after that cadet period) simply min-maxing, and where variety helps enhance fun, cookie cutter D-DCs trash it. Some of the older players can and will tolerate this change because of the sheer volume of the stuff generated over the past year, but for new players it will be hell.

[necrotech]

i have no problem with the c-bills or exp. I've played a lot of matches in world of tanks to unlock a simple engine and i don't know how many to unlock a simple weapon upgrade for a tier 7 or 8 tank that it almost seems ludicrous. for the amount of time i spend in matches so i can upgrade my mechs is nothing compared to the grinding i had to do in that game. it's more fast paced and you get your stuff quicker. if you can't do that just like wot you can buy premium time or buy premium tanks/mechs. at least you don't have to repair your mechs after their destroyed. the one thing i hated in wot was finally earning that high teir tank only to be able to play a few matches a day with it due to repair costs. the only way around this was to essentially be forced to buy a gold tank to play the high teir tank i earned. i don't have that problem with mechwarrior online. i hope it stays that way

[ollo]

PeenyPoke, on 27 August 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

I don't think anyone plays the game to "grind", which is why there are so many people complaining about the reduction in CBill earnings. The game is, for a lot of people, becoming more grind than fun.

I have the stance that basically there is no grind, there is just fun or no fun. If a game is fun, you'll play it regardless of incentives, think counter strike here. The problem is, that a good portion of the fun in a MW game does not come from the actual playing, but rather from building and experimenting with mechs and mech loadouts. The harder this gets, the more fun is taken away from the game. Pair this with the numerous problems that exist in-game and especially consider the new player experience, there you have a great recipe to drive people away.

[Kattspya]

necrotech, on 28 August 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

i have no problem with the c-bills or exp. I've played a lot of matches in world of tanks to unlock a simple engine and i don't know how many to unlock a simple weapon upgrade for a tier 7 or 8 tank that it almost seems ludicrous. for the amount of time i spend in matches so i can upgrade my mechs is nothing compared to the grinding i had to do in that game. it's more fast paced and you get your stuff quicker. if you can't do that just like wot you can buy premium time or buy premium tanks/mechs. at least you don't have to repair your mechs after their destroyed. the one thing i hated in wot was finally earning that high teir tank only to be able to play a few matches a day with it due to repair costs. the only way around this was to essentially be forced to buy a gold tank to play the high teir tank i earned. i don't have that problem with mechwarrior online. i hope it stays that way

That stasi employed a quarter or so of the population is not a valid argument for the opinion that KGB was fine. I'm not sure that a high tolerance for boredom in your leisure activities is something to be proud of

[Riptor]

Audlyn, on 14 August 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

I understand peoples frustration with the drop in c-bill earnings...but at the same time, I can't help but feel that it was eventually going to happen.
Everybody says they should bring back R&R and up the boosts again, but to me, that would only make energy weapons reign supreme again.
For a game that you can get almost EVERYTHING for free...I don't see why this is such a big deal. Sure you have to play more...oh well. I play for fun, not to "grind"...but I guess not everyone can be like that.

New players wont stick around if the grind takes to long... wich it currently does.

You do not introduce the grind to new players in the first hour.. no other f2p game currently on the market does that... not even WOT because of this reason.

If new players dont feel they are making good progress they will drop the game before having spend a single dollar.

Not to mention that someone new to the game might want to experiment with builds.. and with how slow you gain cbills now that is a serious fun breaker if you spend all your cbills on a build just to then figure out that it doesnt work.

People dont even have to pay you to figure out if they like your game or not with f2p titles... so they will drop them even quicker then a game they dont like but paid for. No investment in the game = no reason to keep playing it in the hopes that it might get better.

[Errinovar]

I haven't been playing too long, sometime in late spring I think. I played for a week at first, and while I enjoyed it, I pretty much sucked at it. So I dropped it for some other games, but I dropped back in a couple weeks later and picked it up again. C-bills were slow enough at that point, roughly 80-120k per drop, that it almost pushed me out again. But I pushed on, got better, started buying mechs, which forced me to buy MC so that I could expand my bays. Eventually I got somewhat better and bought a YLW, which added cbills and I also discovered a mech that suited me perfectly so my c-bills were up in the 180-200k range. At that point things really started to get fun and I could branch out and really try new mechs, find what I liked and what I didn't. And that was a major draw for me. If I were getting the current c-bills back then I never would have stuck it out. I introduced my friend who is into FPS and he liked the game, but the grind back then was too much because he bought an assault as his first mech and he hated it. The grind for buying a new mech was way too long for him and he dropped the game.

[Milt]

Imo you should be able to earn enough c-bills while leveling a basic variant to be able to purchase the next variant on your way to unlocking elite. You should also earn enough c-bills while leveling those variants to master to be able to afford your next chassis and at least one module.

[ollo]

Riptor, on 29 August 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

New players wont stick around if the grind takes to long... wich it currently does.
If new players dont feel they are making good progress they will drop the game before having spend a single dollar.

Errinovar, on 30 August 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

I introduced my friend who is into FPS and he liked the game, but the grind back then was too much because he bought an assault as his first mech and he hated it. The grind for buying a new mech was way too long for him and he dropped the game.

Did you guys work together?