361 replies to this topic

[Ozric]

Open W/L stats are terrible for the playerbase long term, that path leads only to false elitism and griefing. I like stats, and I like to improve them, but of all of them W/L is the most susceptible to bad luck and malicious exploitation. There’s no need for any of them to be public, and if a unit needs to screen a new mechwarrior I’m sure there will be better ways than relaying on an often misleading stat.

Luckily for the sane among us, the devs thus far have made a point of leaving out exploitable game systems, and I expect this will be another one for the cutting room floor.

[hornet331]

Franklen Avignon, on 13 June 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

The flaw in your argument about gold shells is that you seem to think you need to have them to do damage to some tanks. I assure you that, with virtually any gun, I can cause damage to any vehicle. It's a matter of knowing where to aim (where to soft-spots are) and what your role is in the game. Not to meme it up here, but if you roll out in every tank thinking your job is solely to to get kills and take the enemy head-on, you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm sorry that every tank you get in isn't an uber solo pwn-mobile, but that just isn't how the game is designed, and it isn't how MWO is being designed either.

Yeah cool story bro... show me how to damage a maus with T43, or a IS4 with a T20 while under in game conditions aka hes shoting back and not a mouth breather... you either ding or load up HE, do pathetic damage (or also ding with HE thanks the latest HE nerfs), or in the case of the IS4 vs the T20 you pray you can get to his back while you still have hp or hope you get a lucky penetration hit on the side that not gets absorbed by tracks.

You are plain lying when saying you can cause damage to any vehicle with any gun, cause WoT is plain unforgiving in that case. Not enough penetration no dmg for you, and low caliber HE is as useless as it gets now. Thats why MWO alone has the superior model since any mech regardless of weight class can damage each other as long as they hit.

[Jabberwockee]

I find some stats useful. In COD I pay attention to which weapons I am most effective at and try to learn more about the ones I suck at. Different tools require different techniques and stats are useful for that.

My internet connection is pretty unreliable so my overall win/loss fluctuates radically day to day. I know I'll never be top tier stats and sometimes I just need to put on my red shirt and take a few hits for the team I can still be useful when my shots don't "count" due to lag (and yeah, that's real in many games).

Overall it's all about cookies.

COD you see the Kill/Death ratio and it affects your play. the K/D "ego cookie" flavors the battles. Even in objective based battles it can impact how people play - for themselves. It's fun. I play it. I play for just a couple matches some days, sometimes for hours. It's fast and furious and satisfying.

MAG (and yes, I do play console games so sue me ) is very objective based. You get cookies (xp and game cash) when you work closer to objectives. objectives also tend to bring more strategy into the battles. if you and the enemy both know vaguely what everyone is trying to do (like in real battles) then people tend to take strategic roles rather than just berzerk PVP killah#1. I think cookies, whatever they are, should relate to team play.

Yeah, my scores in MAG are bad. I lag quite a bit. When I spend a game fixing a turret and setting mines, in a *good* team game I might get one or two kills but I still get lots of cookies (game cash) and feel I have played my part. We kept our bunker alive for 15 minutes straight. if stats reflect that, so much the better. I note that in COD I would check stats far more frequently than in MAG. it does skew gameplay. I've been kicked off squads in MAG because of low percentages but I know I've turned the tables in many battles because of how I play. Their loss. whatever..

I do see the points of others. bragging rights are fine and braggards can be jerks. paint your tail red and watch teams come after you. As long as I can slap a NARC on your butt and run I know I'm helping my team I, personally, would rather see some people get paints or whatever for high stats. I'm more likely to know the Red Baron by his colors than knowing his K/D ratio. That makes it tougher for him (prime target) and more interesting strategically for the opposing team.

statistics will never purely identify the "great" players.. only the best players according to *those* statistics and how they are generated. I am just hoping the games are %75 fun (or better)

[VK4502B]

Well, stats don't matter IMO.

I've seen people in WoT with 60% and they die instantly.
And seen people with lower stats own.

With stats in WoT (And other games with RANDOM people) you need luck to win.
Or an über round where the game decides you have all penning shots, and they miss or ding.

[TKG]

There is one glaring issue that will likely seperate the use of % between MWO and WOT;
MWO does not have a pack of devs who make up things as they go, WOT does, they invent tanks *cough t110's imbred TD cousins cough*, ignore historical data *Cough t110's silicate armor and turret design cough*. In comparison with MWO we KNOW how the mechs on paper are supposed to perform, we can reference this from our own books or verified sources and theres no real way to fudge this information to show great bias because you know the hardliners will see it.

As long as the Core units of the game, are designed well the use of Win/loss stats and such will at least not see unusual spikes due to design bias from the game designers ie the T59, which they had to pull out because the devs got a heck storm over it. If thats the case, then the percents have a good foundation and only player ability should influence the ratios, in theory.

I just hope they dont allow Reticule mods....

[VK4502B]

I grew tired of WoT cause of the "Balancing" and making up stuff they do.
E-75 with rear transmission: "Oh lets put it on front so it goes on fire more often. "

I know... Off topic.

[TKG]

how about that new E-100 TD.....really WoT the germans needed more firepower?! So...it's TD in an assault tank's body?

[VK4502B]

The E-100 TD looks sweet to be honest.
Germany finaly something they excel at with 170mm cannon.
Russians have cloak, armor, speed and firepower.
USA has strong turret, fast and RoF.
French has RoF with drumloader and speed.
Germany has... Frontal transmission that catches fire. Now they get 170mm cannon.

[TKG]

Lol except for one thing few ever aim at an american tank's turret unless thats all they can aim at. hen again the germans to have that rear-turret VK that basically has to dangle 50% of it's body out of cover to shoot around a corner.

Anyway...lets just hope the stats are based on something fair.

[VK4502B]

I bet you, the stats are not fair.

[wizwoz]

I only really see the availabilty of stats as being a negative if it makes some people play in a certain fashion that takes away from the enjoyment of the majority of people playing. That's from a gameplay side but I agree with people saying that the forum community will lose something if people use stats to finish every discussion and the forum may lose some of it's charm and current good natured banter. I have totally given up on using the battlefield 3 forum due to the level of vitriol and childish posts that seem to poison most game related forums. I just hope that the maturity that seems to be present here isn't ruined by an influx of such people. I'm not worried about stats I just want to play the game and have a laugh.

[Elysion]

Win rate is a good stat, but they really should divide it up into solo play and when you are playing with a group you know.
Its a much better stat than kills or a kill:death ratio, thats for sure, because it basically shows how effective you are at making your team win.
Win ratio works because for every unlucky thing that happens to you, it happens to everyone else as well, same for every lucky thing. Over thousands of games win rate is a valuable stat, but it can be stacked if you never go solo, since you will win more often (or lose more often if you and the people you group with all suck=P)

Edited by Elysion, 13 June 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[DarkAnubis]

I hope MWO makes you stay til the match is over, unlike Chromehounds. We had groups dropping out left & right to avoid a loss. That's the only stat that should be public is, drop out % or match completion %.

[StriplingWarrior]

Stats are fair, and objective as long as they are not the result of some mystery formula. Even then as long as the formula applies to everyone equally they are still mostly fair. ( WOT efficiency is right out. Mine has been purposly dropping with great prejudice for some time now. That I can do that and maintain my W/L says something right there.)

Wins, losses, kills, deaths, damage dealt, damage recieved, mechs spotted, bases capped, objectives achieved, shots fired and shots connecting with a target. All of those are hard numbers that can not be mistaken for anything else. The number 42 will always be 42.

Where we all are going to fall in the bell curve of stats is unknown but I can give you a pretty good picture of it if I wanted to. Do I think stats should be kept track of? Yes I do. Do I think everyone should have to see everyones stats? No I don't. Should we be able to show stats to those we want to? Yes. Is having stats kept track of but not being able to see others stats going to make me work harder to get mine up? Absolutely it will. Do I care for W/L? Not at all when damage done/recieved counts for more IMHO.

Stats done right can help elevate the player base to even greater heights of performance. Done poorly they drag the game down into stat whoring and remove much of the fun that used to be in it. What is right is a matter of preference and does correlate somewhat to poor stats=stats dont matter. Not a lot but there is some correlation. I think it comes down to mindset. Some people want to be the best E-peen Mech pilot they can be, others want to blow off some steam. Both have a place in this game. Only one type takes the fun out of the game for me. Stats help the E-peen crowd to wave their peen about while crowing about how only 2% of players are better than they are. I don't consider myself to have an especially thin skin but, too much peen anywhere turns me off.

I do think that if stats must be there the more the better and that provisions be made so almost any stat concievable can be implimented including W/L solo and W/L in lance/company/whatever.

Edited by StriplingWarrior, 13 June 2012 - 10:35 AM.

[JTS]

I´m with Elysion, but I understand if some people like to keep them private. I personally like seeing my stats progress, since you can learn much from analyzing them. Specially Winratio is a good stat to be tracked, since in the long run it shows how much you actually help your team to win.

So I think the option would be to make complete stats available, but let people choose if you want to keep them public or not.

[Elysion]

I wouldn't mind however if there were no stats at all. I kind of like win rate as a stat because it helps me assess my own performance, but its also not a difficult stat to track yourself in these kinds of games.
Something like a kill:death ratio however would be detrimental to their goal of different roles and having people play them. It would encourage people to go for builds best suited for ensuring they get those kill shots in. From discouraging supportive builds to flat out encouraging builds that are not very effective but are really good at bursting away the last few bits of health instantly so they can grab kill credit from everyone.

Edited by Elysion, 13 June 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[Imagine Dragons]

WulfNine, on 13 June 2012 - 06:13 AM, said:

Now you have

*stares at where the round hits*

You don't have your server cross hair up...

Want me to go recreate that scenario? The same reason why it is very very hard to "hack" WoT is the same reason for that shot missing so bad on your screen.

Everything is server-side, what you see on your client is like a window... sometimes the client gets desynced with the server... but the server is always "in the right"

If you had your server crosshair up you may have noticed that according to the server, your turret was rotating in the opposite direction realtive to what you saw on your client... and thus why the shot was so off because the server thinks you are still rotating a gun that is not actually aimed at your target when it looks like you actually are aimed in on your screen...

Oh forgot to mention that pressing "capslock" and the "0)" keys at the same time summons up the server crosshair...

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 13 June 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

I hope the only stats tracked are Fail rate. Missed shots, times killed, falls taken, allies fragged, suicides from overheating, could all be tracked publicly so we could all compare how badly we suck relative to each other.

[Grunkzzz]

I like stats, I like lots of stats, I would like the stats to be sortable by last 10 games 100 games, 1000, 10000, by time period, different mech types(Assualt, light etc) you name it. I would like to have a button that lets me share my stats by the week, month etc

Edited by Grunkzzz, 14 June 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[BanditRaptor]

The Kill-Death ratio could single handedly ruin the game, people will focus on getting their own kills than contributing to the team.