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Mechwarrior Online Launch Party!


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#581 FactorlanP

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:48 AM

I'm definitely not a Chevalier Blanc...

Here is how I view what has likely happened.

PGI did not originally plan to totally rewrite the UI. I believe we learned that in the UI2.0 History Lesson (our only Command Chair post in September).

Previous estimates of when we would see Community Warfare did not account for the UI rewrite.

The decision to go ahead with UI2.0, even though it would set back everything else was most likely the right decision. As described, a completed UI2.0 will likely simplify adding new features to the game. This also was explained in the UI2.0 History.

It is likely that no coding of CW has been done, simply because the UI2.0 structure is required first.

Is this a problem? Depends upon your perspective... With the game having launched, and tepid reviews coming in, PGI is now under a great deal of pressure to produce, and produce quickly.

If the resources that have been tied to UI2.0 are able to shift to full bore production of CW, and to meet the deadlines, then everything may actually work out for the best. If they can't meet the self imposed timeline, things will be very very grim.

Personally, I am not even sure that meeting the deadline of roughly 6months for Phase 3 CW is soon enough.

What we do know, is that PGI has done an enormously craptastic job of communicating these challenges to the community, and if they had been more open and honest about the decision to re-do the UI and put CW on hold, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

I am not convinced that they have learned the lesson concerning communication.

Edited by FactorlanP, 28 September 2013 - 08:50 AM.


#582 MischiefSC

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:07 AM

90 days. It hasn't been 90 days yet.

Right around 90 days since the 3PV issue exploded in nuclear fire you'll see people talking about it less. The state of the forums though, the outrage that blows up every time any opportunity presents, that won't change. That's the new normal here now.

People repeat themselves because they don't feel they were heard or understood. That's why when you deal with an upset customer you probe to identify the root cause (in this can't it's not 3PV so much as how it was handled) then you acknowledge that issue, often by restating it (I absolutely understand why you're upset about X, that's certainly not what we wanted to happen or wanted it to come across) then you hit ownership (I'm going to do whatever I can to help make this right) and resolution (going forward we're going to do Y, so that X doesn't happen again).

That's it. In person dealing with an escalated customer can be handled by a skilled agent in 7-8 minutes, most of which is letting them fully express their concerns. It can go longer or shorter but that's the average.

The problem though is by PGI shutting down they've accomplished 2 things.

1. They have let this environment and 'feeling' become the new norm. This, all this drama and rage, this is baseline now. Get used to it.

2. Without listening, acknowledging or communicating with the community PGI has let one problem turn into a self-driven cycle of outrage. If PGI ever did want to try and mend things with their own community they now would have a much steeper climb.

Everyone on this forum has a relationship with PGI. It's a business/consumer relationship but it's a relationship. Like any relationship you need communication or you're going to have drama, varying from person to person. This forum is going to have people ranging from 'crazy stalker ex' to 'he only hits me when I make him angry, it's totally my fault' but human behavior is human behavior. None of this is new or even unusual.

It would be so easy to fix. Stupidly, ridiculously easy to fix. A couple of hours when it all happened, at this point maybe a few weeks. It'd change tons of Metacritic reviews and flip raging customers back into promoting consumers. The critic reviews are going to continue to be 5's and 6's. If the player reviews were 7's and 8s that's actually pretty significant - to the new casual player it means the people playing it enjoy it even if critics don't "get it".

Instead though we've got 'Don't look him in the eyes, he might come over and try to talk to you' response.

A bold strategy Cotton, let's see how that works out for them.

#583 Mystere

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 28 September 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

People repeat themselves because they don't feel they were heard or understood. That's why when you deal with an upset customer you probe to identify the root cause ...


Well, I see 3 main root causes here:
  • PGI is poor at communication
  • This is the Internet
  • Some people just have horrible upbringing. :D


#584 luxebo

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:33 AM

View PostDuvanor, on 28 September 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

I think, some folks in the forums make it a habit to complain and jump on every metaphorical whine train. Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of things that could be better here, especially comunication. I just say AtD 47.

But when I look back to the other MW games with multiplayer I think MW:O has the superior multiplayer experience. MW 2-4 all had 3PV. The netcodes of MW2 and 3 were atrocious and it got never fixed. Poptarts like in MW4 won't be possible in MW:O, even with the 3PV. I don't like 3PV or coolant flush, but the MW:O implementation is more balanced then in previous games. So the Devs are not repeating mistakes of those games.

MW3 and 4 had not more mechs and as far as I remember not more maps for multiplayer, when they were released. Despite that we entered the MSN gamig zone after the SP campaign and started playing there for years. You may say now that was a different time. And it surely was. But most of us are here because we liked that time, right? At last I for my part don't want another CoD or BF. I want a good old mech game.

There is still a lack of content, but PGI will deliver. Probably not as fast as we would like them to. Probably even not as fast as they should do it from an objective point of view. But they will deliver. So we need patience. It does not help to preach against them and swing a metaphorical "the end is near" sign.

That does not mean there should be no critique. But it should be constructive, not destructive. People who make it a habit to complain or get insulting are not helping at all. Worse are those folks that have lost their hope for MW:O and stay in the forums with a irrational thirst for revenge. They seem to take this very personal and want to bring MW:O down. Thats just sad. Those folks should move on and do something more to their liking. Woulld be better for them and for the rest of us.

TL:DR
Compared to previous MW games MW:O offers a superior multiplayer experience.
PGI is slow, but progress is visible and eventually they will deliver that what we are missing now.

Criticism has its place, but it has to be constructive. Whiners do no good. And those critics who don't want to improve the game anymore but want to see it fail should stop wasting their and our time and move on.


I agree with your post. MWO is tons more balanced than MW4 and older games are (think about Arty beacons, high explosive, mektek weapons like assault laser and clan rail gun, plus cheese builds like 8 er large laser supernova with JJ, etc.). While PGI should speed up, we have to be patient and then Direct x11, UI 2.0, CW, and the clans will come, which all sound awesome.

#585 Roadbeer

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:55 AM

View PostKread, on 28 September 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:


I find it annoying hence I post/try to do whatever I can to make sure these thieves do not prosper.


Lulz... {Noble MechWarrior} for the whole Interwebs

#586 Marcus Roland

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:55 AM

Ok so I had a tonne of fun at the launch party and everyone I talked to seemed to be in agreement. There were some unforseen stream issues that were worked on long and hard. I met alot of the pgi/igp staff and can personally say they are good people who want to do good for the game.

I find most people on these forums complain way to much on things that they keep trying to give updates on. They have stated before everything hinges on ui 2.0 and they don't want to half *** this as it changes how everything else is intigraded. And if you saw the UI 2.0 demo released it was amazing.

The game is great and will keep getting better you just have to be patient. I for one will love this game until one day it ends, is that in 6 months or 6 years? Who knows but enjoy what we have while we have it.

#587 FSxHunter

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:01 PM

View PostAccurs3D, on 28 September 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

What prizes did 1st place receive? 2nd?

From what I understand, 1st place received 660 Tis, Razer Blackwidow Ultimate keyboards, Razer Kraken Pro headsets, and some type of Razer mice, I think Taipans. 2nd place received 660 Tis.

I've been told that the graphics cards were 660 Tis by some people, I've heard that they were 770s from Phil.


gtx 770

#588 DeathFiesta

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:01 PM

So I didn't read through all of the complaining, but one thing I didn't like is:
None of the Community Warfare discussion/description was done with in game material. It was all powerpoint slides, telling us how awesome it is going to be.
There was no 'don't mind the interface' or 'we are still working on getting every star system into the map' or anything to indicate actual programming work done on it.

UI looks better, but where was the social button?

#589 Kiiyor

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostTaren Avalis, on 27 September 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

PGI hasn't exactly churned out tons of content, but they're a small studio with a fraction of the resources of studios that have tanked much bigger projects. If all the people crying about the game's lack of content in this thread really cared about the game/IP you think they would've caught on by now with all of their purported wisdom and realized that all the good suggestions in the world can't make PGI work faster, and either accepted that or moved the hell on, instead of bringing their toxic attitude here and constantly bashing the developers.

At this point, if you really feel the developers cheated you, contact the BBB, Labor and Industry, start a class-action suit, do whatever you need to, except hanging around on the forums trolling like teenager with no outlet for their frustrations at the world at large. All you're doing is doing harm to the IP and creating a stigma that may chase players AND developers away for years to come at this point. I understand that the idea is "PGI screwed me, I'm going to make sure they never succeed with this game out of spite", but how often does that type of rancor actually do any good in this screwed up world? I'll answer that for you - never. Maybe instead of being so ******* petty, you could get over yourselves and move on, and deal with this issue in the appropriate channels as I mentioned, or *gasp* just learn to let something go without the need for vengeance.

Investing in the development of a game in its infancy is a risky venture - if you all don't know development timelines change, and hopes and expectations get tempered with realism over the course of a project, I guess you haven't seen too many of these massively multiplayer games over the past decade. You bought futures in PGI, and they didn't carry the torch of this game to your liking, but you should've known the risk when you started throwing money at the screen.

I feel your pain. I waited almost decade hoping that BioWare would make a Star Wars MMO, only to watch the studio/publisher combine to butcher the entire project and make a half-assed WoW clone that could've been so much more. Instead, they folded, set up a cash shop, and went into maintenance mode to milk the few people still into the game enough to shell out money for new dress-up items. When I realized that all the good suggestions in the world weren't getting through to the company, I voted with my wallet and moved on, but I didn't keep trolling the forums like a spurned lover.

In case you haven't noticed, that's the way the MMO winds are blowing these days. Sad but true. It's not about making the game that it could be - it's about making enough of a game to get by and turn a profit. All that seems to take anymore is a cash shop. Developers are sick of scrambling to make timelines under the threat of incessant nerd rage, it seems, and just tune us out and move on to the next cash grab.

So where does that leave us? I'll take this game for what it is, a fun stompy robot simulation, lacking any sort of substance or reason to play other than enjoying the thrill of the battle, the IP, and shooting {Scrap} with your friends. I still find it vastly more entertaining than the same-old Call of Duty remake every year, which has just as little substance and still manages to be one of the most popular games in the world.

Like Crey Rivers said, some of us come here to look for info and discussion about the game, and half the threads we stumble into are haunted by the same handful of ******** trolls that just can't seem to let go. I care too, but I'm realistic. This is about as good as it gets for the immediate future. The one good thing about this game is that some of us have real lives - and it doesn't take a massive time commitment to get a few drops in with friends and then move on to wife, kids, job, etc. So don't play it constantly. Play it a little bit. And maybe in 6 months or a year this game will be a little closer to what you want, and you can throw yourself into it again with gusto. And if not - find something else to do, because there are a hell of a lot better things to do with your life than troll a bunch of silly Canadians without the wherewithal to defend themselves or the care to justify their actions to you. They're making enough cash from mechs they really don't care. Sad truth of online games today.


It's a trite saying, but I wish I could like this post more than once.

Every time I shake my head in bewilderment at my persistence in reading the forums, a gem like this pops up and makes wading through the bile all worthwhile.

Your statement about the devs not defending themselves really struck a chord with me, and I totally agree. I'm quite enamoured with Firefall at the moment, and the devs of that game are more than willing to post to defend or explain their actions, even for volatile issues. They even call people out on their idiocy. It's glorious. I check the dev tracker there before anything else. The thing is, they were once in a similar situation. Their community was caustic, and it was a courageous dev that braved the forum badlands. Then one day, they acknowledged communication issues, and started posting. People started seeing their passion. Detractors became supporters, or tolerant at the very least. The community managers here could do well to examine that example.

It needs to be done, as ignoring community issues (especially those raised by the trolls) only allows the troll movement to gain confidence and momentum.

Unfortunately, the forums here are possibly impenetrable to the devs. Here's hoping something turns around.

Edited by Kiiyor, 28 September 2013 - 10:37 PM.


#590 soarra

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostMystere, on 28 September 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:


The only fools I am seeing here are those who claim:
  • They hate the game.
  • They hate PGI.
  • They are no longer playing the game.
and yet still inhabit the forums like a band of spurned lovers reduced to stalking.


The honorable, not to mention sensible, thing to do is leave. But, I guess such things are quite lacking these days ...

don't forget the ones who praise PGI for all their dumb decisions, which led to a chunk of the community leaving.

#591 Dymlos2003

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:31 PM

View Postsoarra, on 28 September 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

don't forget the ones who praise PGI for all their dumb decisions, which led to a chunk of the community leaving.


I don't see them, I see people enjoying the game and like talking about it, being positive. If that's what makes people WK or PDF then I don't know.

Funny thing the whole PDF is now being used cause they can't call people WKs anymore. Are you guys that desperate to call people names?

Edited by dymlos2003, 28 September 2013 - 10:31 PM.


#592 Mystere

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:11 PM

View Postsoarra, on 28 September 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

don't forget the ones who praise PGI for all their dumb decisions, which led to a chunk of the community leaving.


Well, those players are probably still enjoying the game and see all the problems as temporary setbacks rather than the coming of the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

Patience vs. "It's the end of the world"? Frankly, I prefer the former. But, at the same time, I must admit that it's a whole lot more fun to poke at the ones who act like the latter.

Edited by Mystere, 28 September 2013 - 11:17 PM.


#593 Duvanor

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:42 AM

View PostDeathFiesta, on 28 September 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

So I didn't read through all of the complaining, but one thing I didn't like is:
None of the Community Warfare discussion/description was done with in game material. It was all powerpoint slides, telling us how awesome it is going to be.
There was no 'don't mind the interface' or 'we are still working on getting every star system into the map' or anything to indicate actual programming work done on it.

UI looks better, but where was the social button?


I think, this might be a problem caused by PGIs communication again. They clearly wanted to show, not tell. Hence a presentation of the parts of UI2.0 and those CW slides.

What we don't know is, what the state of coding is. There are claims that they did not even started to program CW. That has not necessarily to be true. But since they did not show anything you could click on and did not talk about progress in detail (as usual), people suspect there is nothing done. Databanks and coding are the parts of CW which will take the most time, not a star map or some buttons.

I have no proof for my theory, but neither have those who claim that nothing has been done yet. I just want to point out that it is not necessarily as bad as it seems.

#594 Theron Branson

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:24 AM

View PostDuvanor, on 29 September 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:


I think, this might be a problem caused by PGIs communication again. They clearly wanted to show, not tell. Hence a presentation of the parts of UI2.0 and those CW slides.

What we don't know is, what the state of coding is. There are claims that they did not even started to program CW. That has not necessarily to be true. But since they did not show anything you could click on and did not talk about progress in detail (as usual), people suspect there is nothing done. Databanks and coding are the parts of CW which will take the most time, not a star map or some buttons.

I have no proof for my theory, but neither have those who claim that nothing has been done yet. I just want to point out that it is not necessarily as bad as it seems.


If what your saying is true then why show a small clip of UI2 and nothing of actual game play of CW in action? Not even a screenshot or clip like they did for UI2 or say we've got much of the Databanks work done for CW or anything besides a slide show that was made earlier that day?

Edited by Theron Branson, 29 September 2013 - 03:24 AM.


#595 Duvanor

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:36 AM

They said, CW would be done in 6 months and PGI is not good at communications. They might think we get that they are already doing something while the pessimistic forumites think nothing has happened so far.

#596 The Unknown Pilot

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:09 AM

View PostDuvanor, on 29 September 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

They said, CW would be done in 6 months and PGI is not good at communications. They might think we get that they are already doing something while the pessimistic forumites think nothing has happened so far.



Haven't they been saying this since the game's inception though? it's like the mythical Rapture, coming soon so be prepared.....

#597 Duvanor

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 07:49 AM

Maybe, maybe not. We will see if they can deliver CW 1 shortly after UI2.0. I heard something about them coding half the game again so that it would accept new modules easier and would run more stable. So that might explain the delays. They were pretty fast from announcing the game to running closed beta after all. So I think they got some people who can work reasonably fast.

They said, UI2.0 would be there in around 4 weeks, so I think, we should wait and see how this turns out. I expect them to aim for the release of CW1 by end of November to mid December.

#598 Scromboid

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 07:58 AM

View PostKiiyor, on 28 September 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:


It's a trite saying, but I wish I could like this post more than once.

Every time I shake my head in bewilderment at my persistence in reading the forums, a gem like this pops up and makes wading through the bile all worthwhile.

Your statement about the devs not defending themselves really struck a chord with me, and I totally agree. I'm quite enamoured with Firefall at the moment, and the devs of that game are more than willing to post to defend or explain their actions, even for volatile issues. They even call people out on their idiocy. It's glorious. I check the dev tracker there before anything else. The thing is, they were once in a similar situation. Their community was caustic, and it was a courageous dev that braved the forum badlands. Then one day, they acknowledged communication issues, and started posting. People started seeing their passion. Detractors became supporters, or tolerant at the very least. The community managers here could do well to examine that example.

It needs to be done, as ignoring community issues (especially those raised by the trolls) only allows the troll movement to gain confidence and momentum.

Unfortunately, the forums here are possibly impenetrable to the devs. Here's hoping something turns around.


Edit:

Actually I read the post again and cannot agree more.

The sad thing is that this realization has put the final nail in the coffin for me. :lol: Thank you, though, for putting this all together and explaining it in such a profound way. :wacko:

Bye bye, cruel forums :ph34r:

--Scromboid Out.

Edited by Scromboid, 29 September 2013 - 08:02 AM.


#599 BabyCheesus

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:39 PM

Dear PGI,

I wanted to say thank you for hosting the event San Francisco, I had a blast meeting several of my fellow Mechwarriors and playing on Team Oxblood. The open bar and the tournament added much to the fun night and the ending fight was great. I also appreciate getting the chance to meet Randal M. Bills from Catalyst Game Labs as well.

As a software developer I appreciate the challenges and difficulties involved with making the decisions on paving a path that no one really has traveled before with this property. I'm glad that Mechwarrior is alive and I don't feel that my money was wasted when I invested in this game.

The forthcoming features are welcome and I can't wait to see what PGI has next in store for us. Can't wait for the next event.

#600 Blackfang

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:50 AM

View PostBabyCheesus, on 29 September 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

Dear PGI,

I wanted to say thank you for hosting the event San Francisco, I had a blast meeting several of my fellow Mechwarriors and playing on Team Oxblood. The open bar and the tournament added much to the fun night and the ending fight was great. I also appreciate getting the chance to meet Randal M. Bills from Catalyst Game Labs as well.

As a software developer I appreciate the challenges and difficulties involved with making the decisions on paving a path that no one really has traveled before with this property. I'm glad that Mechwarrior is alive and I don't feel that my money was wasted when I invested in this game.

The forthcoming features are welcome and I can't wait to see what PGI has next in store for us. Can't wait for the next event.

And I thoroughly enjoyed spectating through the livestream, was an awesome evening of beer, live streams and meching.





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