57 replies to this topic

[Aym]

Solid guide, long read. I thought you were just going to tell them the best builds and why, let them all go out, circumvent ghost heat, and abuse the current high-alpha-pinpoint-damage issue that we're all trying so hard to make sure PGI is aware of. Figured getting new players to do it right out the gate would bring the problem to greater light.

[scJazz]

Aym, on 18 August 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Solid guide, long read. I thought you were just going to tell them the best builds and why, let them all go out, circumvent ghost heat, and abuse the current high-alpha-pinpoint-damage issue that we're all trying so hard to make sure PGI is aware of. Figured getting new players to do it right out the gate would bring the problem to greater light.

PGI can not fail to understand that point... but if that is what Victor was driving towards he did newbs a great disservice!

http://www.penny-arc...ncing-for-skill

More than that really it could have been summed up as... CTF-3D... Ilya.. which is the meta at the cheapest point.

[Victor Morson]

scJazz, on 18 August 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

PGI can not fail to understand that point... but if that is what Victor was driving towards he did newbs a great disservice!

Telling new players how to perform well at any level of the game cannot be a disservice.

And yes, I hope if new players opt to play the best game they can, it may reflect on the metrics and improve the game for everyone.

[Victor Morson]

scJazz, on 18 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

I'll be equally honest... it works... more than that it excels outside of High-ELO Team Play. ECM/TAG whatever... we are not talking about High-ELO Team Play. It works Victor, more than that as you pointed out if anyone had an AMS in Low to Mid-ELO it wouldn't.

My point is ECM & TAG are issues that show up frequently in casual play, and are excellent counters to mount yourself.

scJazz, on 18 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Your target audience is the Low to Mid players... otherwise your post wouldn't be in New Players. There are plenty of reasons not to use it while running 4 and 12 man Competitive Teams. There is exactly no reason to fail to equip it for Newbs, Low and Mid-ELO.

Sure there is, such as the Cent 9A recommended above. It is not worth downscaling the firepower for AMS on that design. I would recommend it on the Highlander and Cataphract. It's a situational decision.

scJazz, on 18 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Otherwise my crappy build wouldn't be so awesome excellent... but it is... and my numbers show it. It doesn't matter how bad you think my build is... the point... which is in the Title of your OP is... New Players be Competitive***!

1 ) Be on TS!
2 ) Be in a Team!
3 ) Fit AMS!
4 ) Use LRMs!
5 ) Use Streaks!

Yes
Yes
Most of the time
For casual games only (they dead end at higher levels)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Streaks are God awful. REALLY God awful. They might net you damage, but it's scattered because they randomly select a section to shoot at, while still doing less damage per missile than an SRM. Before they were awesome, now they are on my bottom of the barrel. You are better off equipping standard SRMs 100% of the time, at all levels of play, at this time.

scJazz, on 18 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

*** Side note: Being competitive means being on TS and in a Team. More importantly for a new player it means equipment and CBill purchases that are astronomic! It will take 100s of matches to end up in the High ELO Competitive range that Victor is talking about even assuming your first purchase is an Ilya.

Most of our new pilots we've taken on managed to grind out 3 chassis with at least 1 mastered in under a week. That might indeed be a hundred matches or so... but this should set people on the right track to that end, or so I hope! Nothing's worse than telling a new pilot that they spent all that time mastering a chassis that won't see play.

scJazz, on 18 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Victor is talking about an IDEAL situation from the point of view of someone who hasn't started at the bottom (Legendary Founder). In one sense his post is worthless... the Cataphract 3D is a Tier 1 mech but requires lots of CBills and practice. On the other hand nothing he said was wrong. The Cataphract 3D is a Tier 1 mech. (Sorry Victor)

The Cataphract 3D doesn't require that many more cbills than any other solid 'mech, and a new pilot should be able to afford one right out of the gate. It doesn't require any more practice than any other design, plus it's flexible and can fill a number of roles if the meta changes or the pilot wants to try something different - i.e. refitting it as a brawler.

It's a Tier 1 'mech that's also highly accessible to people of all skill levels. What could be easier than learning to shoot a simple 2-group weapon setup that works effectively at all ranges, while also getting to learn how to use jump jets and arm guns? It's pretty much the single most perfect newbie 'mech out there, despite being the most competitive heavy in the game.

[StarGeezer]

For those of us who are truly unwashed n00bs, could you please explain what you mean by Tier 1/2, etc? I only just figured out what Elo is (thank you, Google.) The math to figure that out made my eyes bleed, but I get the vaguest of its basic concepts.

[Johnny Marek Summers]

Uhm Tier 1 is sort of like 'see these mechs? use these for competition', because those mechs do the best at the roles he mentions. Tier 2 are good mechs but not the best. Any other mechs are... less than ideal.

Just remember he is talking about being most effective in the game for wins. Many people have other objectives while playing. It all depends on how you want to play.

I'm not saying that focusing on winning is a bad thing. Given that CW probably means that winning is going to be very important, it'll be good if new guys have a solid basis to start.

[Aym]

StarGeezer, on 18 August 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

For those of us who are truly unwashed n00bs, could you please explain what you mean by Tier 1/2, etc? I only just figured out what Elo is (thank you, Google.) The math to figure that out made my eyes bleed, but I get the vaguest of its basic concepts.

Tier 1.5 is better than tier 2 but not QUITE as good as tier 1. But it's a fine hero mech for grinding and taking advantage of the two PPC + 1 Gauss best-weapon-combo-ever-currently.

scJazz, on 18 August 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

PGI can not fail to understand that point... but if that is what Victor was driving towards he did newbs a great disservice!

http://www.penny-arc...ncing-for-skill

More than that really it could have been summed up as... CTF-3D... Ilya.. which is the meta at the cheapest point.

I'd counter that Streaks and LRMs should be the thing balanced for skill, ie low skill easy to use like the noob-tube in the video.

[Araara]

Suggestion : add a few twitch streams and videos so that people know how team competition / different gameplay from various units play out. Here are my suggestions and contribution :


From one of the sniper of Swords of Kentares : http://www.twitch.tv...mminent/profile
-Random videos : 4 man and 12 man, both for fun and serious drops
-Sometimes stream live

From the competitive unit Luna Wolves : http://www.twitch.tv...awolves/profile
-Usually stream their 12 man games
-Usually stream live matches and 12 man drops


From the competitive unit DV8 : http://www.twitch.tv/aimrobot/profile and http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash/profile
-Very competitive MWO unit
-Rarely plays crappy mech, they usually stream good loadouts and gameplay
-Streams often


Marik Civil war season 2 Round 2 - SwK vs LW : some samples of our games against Luna Wolves, this was a no jumpjet round

Araara is a light mech scout / flanker
3rdWorld is a sniper

Current marik civil war rules : http://marikcivilwarseason2.enjin.com/


Games 2-3-4 - Luna Wolves PoV : http://www.twitch.tv...ves/b/446403529

Drop #1 tonnage : 550 - no more than 4 of any mech chassis
3rdworld's PoV


Drop #2 tonnage : 700 - no more than 3 of any mech chassis
3rd world's PoV
Araara's PoV


Drop #3 tonnage : 850 - no more than 3 of any mech chassis
Araara's PoV


Drop #4 Drop tonnage : 550 - no more than 4 of any mech chassis
3rd's PoV
Araara's PoV

Edited by Araara, 16 November 2013 - 11:17 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Expect a big OP update in a couple days, as the recent changes are tested out!

It looks like Ultras might be going up a tier, Streaks might find their way to Tier 2 and Machine Guns are going back in the trash pile, at the moment. But those are just guesses based on the recent changes here on 8/20!

[Aym]

Don't forget to tell the noobs to turn off 3PV ASAP as it's a heck of a handicap

[Mechwarrior413183]

I only played this game casually with friends and when they stopped I did too so I'm semi newb, that was like a month or two after open beta I stopped playing. So if you would be so kind as to answer what's better for brawling a "Misery" or "Heavy Metal" and what might be example fits for those, also is sniping superior to brawling in terms of effectiveness or profit?

If you'd kindly answer yet another question which class of mech is most profitable out of all of them?

Hopefully these questions would also be useful to some newbies so not too much of waste answering.

[Victor Morson]

Mockeryangel, on 20 August 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

I only played this game casually with friends and when they stopped I did too so I'm semi newb, that was like a month or two after open beta I stopped playing. So if you would be so kind as to answer what's better for brawling a "Misery" or "Heavy Metal" and what might be example fits for those, also is sniping superior to brawling in terms of effectiveness or profit?

If you'd kindly answer yet another question which class of mech is most profitable out of all of them?

Hopefully these questions would also be useful to some newbies so not too much of waste answering.

You could make an acceptable brawler assault out of both the Misery and Heavy Metal, if you are looking for one that has a cbill bonus attached. You could really make a case for either; the Heavy Metal's jumping abilities are likely to make them more viable at a competitive level, where you see them sometimes next to 732s. Just because the Highlander overall is so good, you might want to opt for a Heavy Metal and master Highlanders, as there is something for everyone there.

In terms of raw profit, damage matters a lot. If you are looking for an optimal cbill grinder 'mech, I actually don't recommend either the Misery or the Highlander, but instead the Cataphract Ilya Muromets. You can mount 3 UAC/5, 3 Medium Lasers on it - which are far more durably placed than the Jaggermech equivalent - and rack up tons of damage.

To improve upon that recommendation, the recent buff to UAC/5s are likely to make that into a competitive build as well as PUG money maker. So that'd definitely be my recommendation for making money as rapidly as possible.

Now if you're looking for the best brawler, without a concern for cbills, I'd recommend looking at the Centurion 9A with 3X SRM6 / 2x ML - in particular after the recent medium buffs, it's one of the easiest to use and hardest hitting 'mechs out there. It's Hero version (the Yen Lo Wang) is not very good however, with an arm that's way too easy to blow off. While there are good brawler assaults (Primarily the AC/20 3x SRM6 DDC), I'd be less inclined to recommend them for lone wolf games because they need to move as a group, and you're likely not going to get much support. The Centurion is at least quick enough to get around the battlefield, and damaging enough to obliterate heavies in as little as two shots.

I hope that answers most of your questions. As a recap, I'd say brawling and sniping are both in the same profit range, but "lot of damage" weapons like the UAC are the most profitable (if not the most competitive), in particular after the recent buffs, with the Ilya being one of the best overall money making 'mechs available.

Edited by Victor Morson, 20 August 2013 - 09:35 PM.

[Aym]

Nice reply Victor, you're doing a great job with this thread!

[Mechwarrior413183]

Is it okay if I ask for advice on builds I did for a heavy metal in this thread? People seem to know what's up in this thread vs the more random quality of advice in making a new thread.

[Victor Morson]

Sure! I didn't see any posted in the thread, though, so I think I might have misunderstood ; are you looking for Heavy Metal designs, or to run some past us?

I can post up some decent HMs at Smurfy if you'd like; I don't drive them personally but I know several people that do. (The only hero I own is the Ilya, it's nothing against the HM.)

Something like this would be a decent XL cash grinder:
Standard HM Sniper

Edited by Victor Morson, 23 August 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[Mechwarrior413183]

Hmm I need more cash before I can build that how about these http://mwo.smurfy-ne...32f4791a60e349f

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a1794fe3e34bd0b

those are in my price range though I could do that sniper one after some farming. I based one of these builds (LL one) off an article on themittani.com. I could strip a bit of armour off the ERPPC one and a couple JJs to fit some normal SRM 2s with 2 tons ammo.

[Victor Morson]

Mockeryangel, on 23 August 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

Hmm I need more cash before I can build that how about these http://mwo.smurfy-ne...32f4791a60e349f

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a1794fe3e34bd0b

those are in my price range though I could do that sniper one after some farming. I based one of these builds (LL one) off an article on themittani.com. I could strip a bit of armour off the ERPPC one and a couple JJs to fit some normal SRM 2s with 2 tons ammo.

Not bad, but the biggest thing holding them back - bar none - is the Standard frame. As soon as you can possibly afford an upgrade to Endo, it will free up a lot of tonnage to upgrade your designs. Try to make that your first purchase then transition the design over to the more expensive model if you can.

I like the Gauss + 2 ER PPC one you setup way better than the 3 LL, because that creates ghost heat (2 is the limit on Large Lasers), and stagger firing lasers results in an even longer burn time... plus I'm really not 100% sold on Streaks even with the damage yet. But that PPC + Gauss one looks about as solid as I think you can get on a standard frame, so that one seems solid!

EDIT: The big reason you want a 325+ engine when you can afford it is that it allows the storage of 3 DHS, which frees up enough crits to make the design work. Big engines are really nice on assaults.

EDIT 2: Oh one minor thing before I forget.. AMS ammo (unlike Gauss ammo) can explode. I'd recommend you try to mount it in your head; while that sounds crazy, it'll get used up first, and is far less likely to be critted there (since if you're taking internal damage to the head, you're in trouble anyway).

Edited by Victor Morson, 23 August 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Mechwarrior413183]

Thanks for the advice how is this bit more expensive one for brawling?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d246f7d54a7d502

Still standard frame, could have an AC/20 instead of a gauss too. Assaults seem pretty hard to fit when you got endo in without a big engine.

[UnwantedProblem]

you should update this, streaks are pretty useful when fighting lights right now (2.5 dmg per missile, so if you equip 3 or more streaks, you will be a hell good light hunter). Other than that, streaks are pretty crappy.


Good guide tough

[Victor Morson]

UnwantedProblem, on 27 August 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

you should update this, streaks are pretty useful when fighting lights right now (2.5 dmg per missile, so if you equip 3 or more streaks, you will be a hell good light hunter). Other than that, streaks are pretty crappy.


Good guide tough

Sorry for my temporary absence.

And indeed, I'm considering moving Streaks up to the 1.5 Tier. Even with 2.5 damage per missile, their random element tends to make them far less reliable than SRMs, and you are better off with Small Pulse for fighting lights. They are considerably better than when I first wrote the post, however, given their light tonnage and low requirements. But they're definitely not T2 again.