44 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Le Goat, on 20 August 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Looks like this thing would be very afraid of LRMs

Honestly it would be afraid of about everything which is why I don't see the issue of adding it. I mean PGI seems to have not yet realized that the most important aspect of a mechs performance is its shape and size. Even the best hardpoint layout ever will suck if the mech dies in 30 seconds, just look at the Awesome. It has good hardpoints but bad shape and it dies. The Catapult is the same in regards to the Cockpit. Even with the redefined cockpit hit box, it is still easy to headshot a Catapult.

The King Crap is ultra-wide so no matter what, it is going to have either a huge CT or huge Side Torsos or a little of both. Either way this thing will shed side torsos without a blink so no way in hell will you be able to run an XL and standard engines will massively cut the firepower you can wield. Also it is going to be a slower, less manuverable Stalker with pretty much the same weapon fire arcs with the only trade off being, you will be able to mount 2 AC/20 vs 4 PPCs.

It is also going have almost all its main weapons hanging very low to the ground thus preventing you firing over anything.

So yeah, bring it on. Hell I might even buy one just because I think it could look very cool if they used something similar to Bishop Steiners design. It also would bring a very unique looking mech into a game that has regressed into a blob of similar looking mechs.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 20 August 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 August 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

and often those record sheets have MORE errors. As noted, the Rifleman with full 4 arm actuator packages. So I will continue to NOT look at those as gospel. And regardless, the actuators served no useful purpose on the KGC, as even with split crits it got the more limited fire arc of the torso, and the very art design precluded any possibility of actually lifting or manipulating with them.

Of course, by the record sheets and Btech sown rules, the Stalker should be able to fire all it's arm mounted weapons in the rear quadrant, but hey, when have we seen that done? It might be my favorite game, but inconsistency, low quality control and lackluster editing have always been hallmarks of the franchise. Gives it it's charm, I reckon.

Looking at the record sheet for the Rifleman, it doesn't have all of the arm and hand actuators. The Rifleman only has shoulder and upper arm actuators now. It's called errata... get used to it.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 20 August 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

James The Fox Dixon, on 20 August 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Looking at the record sheet for the Rifleman, it doesn't have all of the arm and hand actuators. The Rifleman only has shoulder and upper arm actuators now. It's called errata... get used to it.

gosh, interesting, since mine does, Of course, mine are the original ones. *shrugs*

[James The Fox Dixon]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 August 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

gosh, interesting, since mine does, Of course, mine are the original ones. *shrugs*

Which has been fixed through an errata regarding it. Errata supercedes prior printings and fixes errors.

[blacklp]

GROGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Also i saw this in an earlier post... the whole landing pad thing. King Crab is OP it boats Jenners.

[Tennex]

sorry bud it does have split crits. Lower arm and hand actuator all the better to pinch you with.

not sure which to believe

though certainly would not mind if it were just a giant cannon instead of movable pincers (which linkely wont have lateral movment anyway since split crits are slaved to the torso


But it is still up to PGI to pick which version they want to use.
regardless, maybe the critical split problem will be fixed when UI2.0 comes in.

Edited by Tennex, 20 August 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[Joachim Viltry]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 August 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

gosh, interesting, since mine does, Of course, mine are the original ones. *shrugs*

HIPSTER!!!!

But seriously, sorry Bish new printings always supersede older printings. It was a nice try, though...

[Angel of Annihilation]

From the TRO:
Type/Model: King Crab KGC-0000 Mass: 100 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass Internal Structure: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00 Engine: 300 6 19.00 Walking MP: 3 Running MP: 5 Jumping MP: 0 Heat Sinks: 15 Single 3 5.00 (Heat Sink Loc: 1 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL) Gyro: 4 3.00 Cockpit, Life Support, Sensors: 5 3.00 Actuators: L: Sh+UA, R: Sh+UA 12 .00 Armor Factor: 272 pts Standard 0
17.00


Notice the area marked actuators: L: Sh+UA, R: Sh+UA. Sh stands for shoulder, UA stands for upper arm. No lower arm Actuators to see here. The Claws are just for show and are actually gun ports, not hands.

[Lucian Nostra]

Dunno why this keeps coming up, Look at the Victor 9S ingame. With an AC/20 it still has horizontal arm movement available to it, not as much as Victors that lack the AC/20 ability but it's still there.

Highlander 733c? same story the arm swings to the side again granted not as much as mechs without the ac/20.

Soooo what does it matter if the King Crab had split crits or not in BT? It can still have this method of arm articulation..

I think only the YLW lacks the ability to aim it's AC/20 arm...

[Tennex]

Lucian Nostra, on 20 August 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Dunno why this keeps coming up, Look at the Victor 9S ingame. With an AC/20 it still has horizontal arm movement available to it, not as much as Victors that lack the AC/20 ability but it's still there.

Highlander 733c? same story the arm swings to the side again granted not as much as mechs without the ac/20.

Soooo what does it matter if the King Crab had split crits or not in BT? It can still have this method of arm articulation..

I think only the YLW lacks the ability to aim it's AC/20 arm...

this is about splitting criticals not arm movement. either way split or no, the king crab won't have lateral arm movement. because the split weapon is slaved to the slower targetting reticle

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 20 August 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

this is about splitting criticals not arm movement. either way split or no, the king crab won't have lateral arm movement. because the split weapon is slaved to the slower targetting reticle

and since the split criticals or lack of lower actuators would serve ZERO purpose on the KGC-000 in MWO ANYHOW, it's rather a moot point, gnawed on by a few OCD TT fanatics. The solution, in line with the spirit of the claws according tot he lore ANYHOW, is to simply make the "claws" into armored covers for the ACs, that open and close just like the Catapult's armored covers, without having any hand or lower arm actuators involved.

The implementation of split crits was always poorly thought out ANYHOW, as they limit the weapon arc to the most limited location, hence no lateral motion, but somehow, those arms still benefit from that full range of motion for determining it's viability in hand to hand combat.

So despite having a BARREL in the midddle making them useless to actually pick up and carry, and zero lateral range of motion making them as effective in H2H combat as a first generation Star Wars figure, people want to get tied up in Record Sheets which pretty obviously were another example of someone taking an editing error and running with it. Since ALL the original source material listed the KGC's ACs as being IN THE ARMS only, and even the fluff for the 2750 TRO specifically mentions the massive issue of the arms being nothing but AC crits causing any internal hit to knock out the AC.

And even the 3039 and 3050 TROs list the "claws" as specifically being "armored covers or sheaths" for the AC.

It's not rocket science. We got rear and leg mounted weapons re-assigned because the don't work for MWO as shown in "errata and record sheets", ECM hard locked to a SINGLE critical location in mechs, 1.4 efficiency DHS, doubled armor, tripled ballistic range, doubled energy range, increased ammo, Modules with no basis in canon, and LB-Xs which don't remotely work in the way described in the "official TT rules" (aka no ability to use standard AC ammo slugs) and such, but some OCD folk want to find every possible roadblock to the KGC because it has "hands" that realistically DON'T DO ANYTHING ANYHOW.

I can only assume either the individuals in question are WAAAAAAAAY too Obsessive Compulsive, or have an irrational fear or hatred of the design for some reason, or simply suffer from severe Ostraconophobia.

*shrugs*

I'm all about finding logical ways to making things WORK, to try to improve the game, like my non-canon solution to the LB-10X. http://mwomercs.com/...b-10x-proposal/ Others seem to cling to "official TT" lore and rules no matter how ineffective they prove to be for a FPS environment, or how far from the tree the PGI apple has already fallen. And to me, this simply makes no sense.

[Lucian Nostra]

Tennex, on 20 August 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

this is about splitting criticals not arm movement. either way split or no, the king crab won't have lateral arm movement. because the split weapon is slaved to the slower targetting reticle

So I see you didn't really take in what I wrote. See how I said that both the Highlander and the Victor, mechs with AC20s in their arms have lateral arm movement while the YLW is the only mech one that lacks lateral movement?

All three have upper arm actuators. There's no reason PGI couldn't junk the Hand and lower arm actuators and make the King Crab just like the Highlander and the Victor. They've already taken some liberties here and there.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 21 August 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Khanahar]

Lucian Nostra, on 21 August 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

So I see you didn't really take in what I wrote. See how I said that both the Highlander and the Victor, mechs with AC20s in their arms have lateral arm movement while the YLW is the only mech one that lacks lateral movement?

All three have upper arm actuators. There's no reason PGI couldn't junk the Hand and lower arm actuators and make the King Crab just like the Highlander and the Victor. They've already taken some liberties here and there.

Yes, the YLW is the only lower-arm-actuatorless 'mech that lacks horizontal movement*

*Except for the Jenner, Raven, Cicada, Blackjack, Catapult, Jagermech, and Stalker.

The actual rule seems to be:
1) Full actuators (give or take the hand) get full movement
2) Minimum actuators get no horizontal movement
3) Mechs with a mobile RA and immobile LA get limited horizontal movement, to avoid having 3 reticles


The exception to the rules is indeed the CN9-YLW, but only because it's the only 'mech in category 3 that has no LA weapons, making the 3 reticle issue moot and causing it to function like a category 2 mech. If they introduce the YLW with lasers on its LA, they may have to give it limited arm movement.

The King Crab is unambiguously in category 2. It has two actuator-deprived arms, like the Jenner, Raven, Cicada, Blackjack, Catapult, Jagermech, and Stalker, and will not get any lateral movement. (Unless you split criticals, which puts its in a new category: locked to torso for both movement types).

[Grey Ghost]

Does it even have 3 variants available in this era?

[HIemfire]

General Taskeen, on 20 August 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

Because they are going to follow the newest record sheets that's why. Hence why an AC/20 is not mountable on everything with full arm actuators, unless it splits. AC/20 requires 14 10 criticals, where 2 spill over into the torso when mounted on an arm if full actuators are present.

Just a slight adjusment there. 14 tons, and 10 crit slots. at 14 crit slots the Atlas could not mount one in it's side torso.

General Taskeen, on 20 August 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

However, it doesn't matter anyways, because even with full actuators and splitting a big gun, it still has all the drawbacks of having just the upper actuators since the gun is locked into the torso, thus no lateral movement would be possible of the arms.

So Jagermechs have no lateral swing?

General Taskeen, on 20 August 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

Same thing goes for Heavy Gauss and LB 20-X. The IS LB 20-X literally requires split critting no matter what, which is also on one of the King Crab variants, it is not possible to mount it even with just the two upper actuators.

Heavy Gauss is only mountable in the Side torsos (one of MW4's screwups there), it can overlap the legs or center torso though. I wonder if they are going to put the Lao Hu (Main gun is an LB 20-X in the right arm/torso) in and how that is going to work if they do (this is way down the road for us).


On topic: It would be nice if they just dumped the lower arm and hand actuators on the King Crab and called it good.

Edited by HIemfire, 21 August 2013 - 09:31 PM.

[HIemfire]

Grey Ghost, on 21 August 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Does it even have 3 variants available in this era?

Counting the SLDF Royal variant it does. Those went Extinct back during the SLDF Exodus.

Ermm, that means sort of, I guess... The ones that are likely in production in this era are the -000 (original design) and the -0000 (lower tech Succession Wars downgrade).

Edited by HIemfire, 21 August 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Grey Ghost, on 21 August 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Does it even have 3 variants available in this era?

KGC-000
KGC-0000
KGC-010

Sadly the 4th variant , the KGC-000b is a Royal Brigades exclusive, so not gonna show up any time. soon. That said, 3 is enough.

also......

courtesy Kiriage~san

nuff said

[HIemfire]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 August 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

KGC-000
KGC-0000
KGC-010

Sadly the 4th variant , the KGC-000b is a Royal Brigades exclusive, so not gonna show up any time. soon. That said, 3 is enough.

also......

courtesy Kiriage~san

nuff said

Nice pic... -010? The -001 starts production in 3052, a short time away still unfortunatly.

[Bishop Steiner]

HIemfire, on 21 August 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Nice pic... -010? The -001 starts production in 3052, a short time away still unfortunatly.

NOPE, 010. A command mech variant using LB-10X instead of AC20.

[Grey Ghost]

Has MW:O added any Star League era variants (of any Mech) as of yet though?

Edited by Grey Ghost, 22 August 2013 - 06:32 PM.