2021 replies to this topic

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

I find myself playing less MWO and more MWLL. We could use some more people over their too, different game then MWO, plays differently, takes a little getting use to since it has Vehicles and Air assets but still loads of fun. Download it, join the forums, ask any questions, find us on NGNG and we can help if you have any problems. Anyone who plays MWLL is willing to help with getting you guys started and we'd love to have more people!

Edited by Werewolf486, 22 August 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Sasha Volkova]

igavemymomkoolaid, on 22 August 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

If you think it s*cks: it's BETA!!!

'nuff said.

You are the reason I am getting closer and closer to making a single huge thread making things crystal clear for you and everyone else like you that lives in "happyville" aka IGP/PGI's back garden.

THIS IS NOT BETA!!

I fail to see how you simply can not get that thing into your head.
But because I sympathize with people like you I will try to make things even more clear - in other words here is the reason why MWO is not in beta!

- Beta is a non-subscription based state of a game that is still in testing.

- Beta is the state of a game where microtransactions does not exist and is not an option yet because the game is not finished yet.

- Beta is a state where preorders are still available because the game is not released yet and preorders is the only way to make money in the beta state of a game.

- Beta is always wiped before the final release - the beta data is testing data and not something you get to keep because getting to keep something you had access to during testing is considered unfair to everyone else who will start to play the game when it is finally released.

- Beta is the final step before a release of a game - a release is the step where you begin earning money through various means such as microtransactions and subscriptions since these are actually allowed when a beta ends but not before.

Now with the above (hopefully) finally getting through to everyone who still claims this is a beta, I have only one thing to say - Wake up from your little dream/wonderland!!

I may have been rough with the above, but everyone needs to remember the following:

- This is not a beta.

- This is not an unfinished game that is still in testing.

- This is the product we will be given in 2 weeks.

- This is the released game - based on the fact that we are already able to buy subscriptions and make microtransactions and the fact that we will not have anymore wipes.
We already had our data wipe.
That wipe was a long time ago now - because the game was released a long time ago.

The "release" we have in 2 weeks is simply a PR stunt to try and save the company making this game from having to close it down since they can not make it work or pay for itself.

/Done bursting bubbles around here for now.

Cheers.

[Burning Chrome]

tuffy963, on 22 August 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Well, I have been playing a lot of 3pv to learn the in's and out's of the feature. I am still not very good at driving in 3pv (as the vid will show)... but I am getting better. While I don't fair particulaarly well in the captured game, I think this vid does a good job demonstrating the potential issues with a player base that will eventually become experts with 3pv...



I think the most telling moment is around the 2:00 mark when I catch sight of an Atlas in the volcano that would not have been visible to me in 1st person, that sets off a number exploitative moves, on my part, to avoid the rush over the top of the volcano.

Potential Implication: Players will eventually cobble together a list of maps and mechs builds that benefit most from 3pv and will dominate those situations. Playing at the top of this volcano is clearly more beneficial than other spots on this map. Combined with high mounted weapons, it becomes a significant advantage.

EDIT: I hope this is received as constructive feedback in the current sea of negativity on this thread...

This video clearly illustrates the advantages of 3PV over 1PV and the @$$h@ttery of lies and excuses defending allowing 3pv/1pv players in the same queue. Tested this for myself last night as well but lack the resources/time to record and post it.

Either Russ and his crew are souless liars and no longer give a damn, or they are beyond grossly incompetent. Or both?

MWO should have been a guaranteed win, but I no longer believe it will last. Mech scaling is WAY off. Hit detection is cr@p. Mech movement vs terrain is laughable. ECM is still beyond ridiculous and probably marks the point of no return. So many promises broken...

It is puzzling, but I'm beginning to believe IGP/PGI does not realize who/what their player base is.

But that is most likely my misunderstanding of how things really work as I'm not a member of the "elite phantom majority" that sways PGI in to making all these successful and game enhancing changes/decisions.

Truly is a shame, as there are some exceedingly strong positives in MWO...not enough to save it unless things change.

Edited by Burning Chrome, 22 August 2013 - 09:06 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

James The Fox Dixon, on 22 August 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I'm going to give those that think by acting like children is the best way to achieve the results they want a crash course in etiquette. Thank ya Emily Post.

The Principles of Etiquette

Respect

Respecting other people means recognizing their value as human beings, regardless of their background, race, or creed. It's demonstrated in all your day-to-day relations - refraining from demeaning others for their ideas and opinions, refusing to laugh at racist or sexist jokes, putting prejudices aside, and staying open-minded. We show respect not just by what we refrain from doing but also by intentional acts, such as being on time, dressing appropriately, or giving our full attention to the person or people we're with.

Self-respect is just as important as respect for others. A person who respects herself isn't boastful or pushy but is secure in a way that inspries confidence in others. She values herself regardless of her physical attributes or individual talents, understanding that integrity and character are what really matter.

Consideration

The key to consideration is thoughtful behavior. Being thoughtful means thinking about what you can do for those around you and how your actions will affect them. Consideration leads us to help a friend or stranger in need, to bestow a token of appreciation, or to offer praise.

Honesty

Honesty ensures that we act sincerely and with integrity. It's the basis of tact: using empathy to find the positive truth and telling or acting on it, without causing embarrassment or pain.

http://mwomercs.com/...uette-over-3pv/

[Rainbow Unikorn]

http://mwomercs.com/...x-localisation/

[42and19]

tuffy963, on 22 August 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Well, I have been playing a lot of 3pv to learn the in's and out's of the feature. I am still not very good at driving in 3pv (as the vid will show)... but I am getting better. While I don't fair particulaarly well in the captured game, I think this vid does a good job demonstrating the potential issues with a player base that will eventually become experts with 3pv...



I think the most telling moment is around the 2:00 mark when I catch sight of an Atlas in the volcano that would not have been visible to me in 1st person, that sets off a number exploitative moves, on my part, to avoid the rush over the top of the volcano.

Potential Implication: Players will eventually cobble together a list of maps and mechs builds that benefit most from 3pv and will dominate those situations. Playing at the top of this volcano is clearly more beneficial than other spots on this map. Combined with high mounted weapons, it becomes a significant advantage.

EDIT: I hope this is received as constructive feedback in the current sea of negativity on this thread...

This is what we need more of. video and screenshots of how 3pv can be exploited and less of the "I'm pissy and I want my money back waaa!" Posts.

How the hell do we expect the developers to even consider listening to our feedback if we aren't really giving anything beyond the fact that a portion of the community is pissed off? I appreciate this individual and his post. From now on we should try to do this more often. If PGI is deluged with video and screenshots showing how bad this mechanic is for balance than they are more likely to fix it.

I do want to point out that the recorder died purely because they knew exactly were he was because of the drone. Which brings up my other point. The exploits of using 1pv against 3pv. It's weird to think this way since everyone is so pissed off about 3pv and I want to make it clear that this observation is made in support of separate ques (or removing 3pv entirely.) I run a jenner primarily and I have found that in pug matches 3pv is exceptionally fatal to use. I can spot a enemy mech from across the map because of that silly drone and that allows me to keep track of them and constantly harrass them when I may not have been able to otherwise.

I bring this up because this point goes directly against the main argument for having 3pv. If it is there in order to help new players learn the game how exactly are they going to be doing that if they are being targeted and killed near the start of the match? 3pv needs to be limited to a separate que or possibly even locked to the rookie period were new players get their c-bill bonus. If you haven't figured out the mechanics of tank maneuvering by 25 matches then...well. This game isn't for you.

I understand wanting to bring in new players and I understand wanting to make the experience for new players as pleasing and enjoyable as possible but I feel that this 3pv is going to do the exact opposite.

[Protection]

[DEMAX51]

I'm going to do something unheard of on these forums: write some actual feedback that's more than just a raging rant against PGI...

I completely understand the need for an implementation of 3PV, but in it's current state I don't see it being of much use for new players.

It is my understanding that 3PV was instituted to give new players a way to see exactly how a 'Mech moves, vis a vis legs moving independently of the torso. I completely agree that this is a difficult concept to understand for people unfamiliar with the genre, and it is in PGI's best interests to make the game open and accessible to the largest number of people they possibly can. Unfortunately, in an effort to keep 3PV from becoming substantially more useful in a competitive setting, the mission to make the game easier for new players has not been accomplished.

By pinning the 3PV camera so close behind the player's 'Mech, you cannot adequately see the 'Mechs legs! 3PV in its current iteration is, in my opinion, not going to help new players learn the intricacies of 'Mech movement. Too many compromises were made in an effort to avoid segmenting the playerbase. Restrictions, such as the lack of HUD elements and arms being locked to the torso, definitely help to keep 3PV from becoming OP compared to 1PV, but they also severely hinder players looking to learn how to play the game.

The solution for this is simple: 3PV needs to be more useful (i.e. wider field of view, being able to see your entire 'Mech, and having the same HUD elements available), and players using this enhanced 3PV need to be segmented to their own "training" queues. I don't care if 3PV in its current form stays in the game and people in 1PV queues are able swap to 3PV at will as they do now (people who are saying that it's ruining the game and that it can be exploited are just being absurd - it's not an exploit if it's usable by everyone, and trying to actually FIGHT in 3PV is horrible), but if the intent is to make the game more accessible for newbies, I feel like more needs to be done.

[Protection]

http://themittani.co...ure-communicate


Just nails it.

[Silverlance]

I've been reading into the whole legalities thing in previous posts. There's a ton of no no laws like this in the U.S. too. And while I haven't made up my mind either way yet. As a small business owner, my business lawyer is going to look into this for me and my options. Especially since I've poured money in for:
Legendary Founder
Overlord Phoenix Project Package
Sarah's Mech for a friend
Talon Phoenix Package for a friend
Countless amounts of MC for not only MC but ALSO Premium Time as well
I've dropped FAR MORE than 200 dollars into this game and it's about time that I, as a FOUNDER, started being listened to. I'm sure that all the other FOUNDERS will agree with me in this matter, especially in light of the current what could be major **** storm on a legal scale PGI might be facing if they don't get their act together. This isn't about rage or full ******. This is about passion ladies and gentlemen. We all play this game for the sole reason that: We Love Mechwarrior. In either one form or another, a huge percentage of us have previous MW experience. Be it from TT to MW4 and on. We gave to this game and it's creators to assist them in making something for us that we had been waiting patiently in the shadows for, for way too many years. Then this pops up and loyalists flocked over, screaming, "Shut up and take my money!" at the devs for a chance at making something absolutely epic for a fanbase of a ton of people. But after fail after fail after fail, you can only spoon feed us so much ******** before we spit it back in your face and say no more. Which, people are starting to do left and right.
I'm pretty sure anyone else who's spent money on this game in ANY amount will agree, that we didn't spend our hard earned pay checks on lining your pockets. We spent it in the hopes that our money would push you to listen to us and make a product that our money DESERVES. Which you started out greatly at doing. But now, have failed for the last time.

PGI. I implore you. You have a magnificent product that I will happily spend hours on end playing and spending money on...once you get your ***** in gear and start listening to your players. You know, the people whom without being here you'd all have nothing? Yah. Us. Please. Read this. Learn from this. Actually LISTEN to this. Listen to US. This is your last chance for redemption. If you truly want to have a totally bad *** game that everyone likes and talks about and spends money on and shares with their friends and posts vids and pics online all over social media sites, then you'll start changing things for the better and start addressing the promises you made and come through.

If not. Well. May the Force be with you because my next step is legal action and I know I won't be alone once someone steps up with the balls to stare you down. And if that has to be me, then so be it.

[Telemetry]

Silverlance, on 22 August 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

If not. Well. May the Force be with you because my next step is legal action and I know I won't be alone once someone steps up with the balls to stare you down. And if that has to be me, then so be it.

You are right you won't be alone. It is important that we don't allow PGI to set a dangerous precedent in the F2P world. They need to give back the money, give us the game that was promised, or we take the money back via the court system. I smell a class action lawsuit brewing.

[Silverlance]

Telemetry, on 22 August 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

You are right you won't be alone. It is important that we don't allow PGI to set a dangerous precedent in the F2P world. They need to give back the money, give us the game that was promised, or we take the money back via the court system. I smell a class action lawsuit brewing.

Over the course of the next few weeks, I'll be evaluating how well the devs begin addressing the issues and delivering what was promised. Adding into this "What Was Promised", I will specifically be looking at earlier promises, particularly the 1:1 timeline and other such promises revolving around this idea of theirs.
I invite any and all people who are on the same page and who have the same thoughts about any type of class action against PGI, email me at TidewalkerPhotography@ GMail.com. We will take things one step at a time and I think the first step is to form a petition of some sort to show to PGI that we mean ******* business and see what their reaction is before resorting to drastic measures.

One way or another however, we will know for sure within the coming days how we as the lifeblood of this game will be treated.

Oh, and to you mods, admins and other PGI/IGP staff. Go ahead. Delete my posting. Ban me from the forums. These have already been screen shot and added to the file for evidence down the road. The deletion of these postings will also be screen shot and added as evidence.

[Lugh]

Silverlance, on 22 August 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

I've been reading into the whole legalities thing in previous posts. There's a ton of no no laws like this in the U.S. too. And while I haven't made up my mind either way yet. As a small business owner, my business lawyer is going to look into this for me and my options. Especially since I've poured money in for:
Legendary Founder
Overlord Phoenix Project Package
Sarah's Mech for a friend
Talon Phoenix Package for a friend
Countless amounts of MC for not only MC but ALSO Premium Time as well
I've dropped FAR MORE than 200 dollars into this game and it's about time that I, as a FOUNDER, started being listened to. I'm sure that all the other FOUNDERS will agree with me in this matter, especially in light of the current what could be major **** storm on a legal scale PGI might be facing if they don't get their act together. This isn't about rage or full ******. This is about passion ladies and gentlemen. We all play this game for the sole reason that: We Love Mechwarrior. In either one form or another, a huge percentage of us have previous MW experience. Be it from TT to MW4 and on. We gave to this game and it's creators to assist them in making something for us that we had been waiting patiently in the shadows for, for way too many years. Then this pops up and loyalists flocked over, screaming, "Shut up and take my money!" at the devs for a chance at making something absolutely epic for a fanbase of a ton of people. But after fail after fail after fail, you can only spoon feed us so much ******** before we spit it back in your face and say no more. Which, people are starting to do left and right.
I'm pretty sure anyone else who's spent money on this game in ANY amount will agree, that we didn't spend our hard earned pay checks on lining your pockets. We spent it in the hopes that our money would push you to listen to us and make a product that our money DESERVES. Which you started out greatly at doing. But now, have failed for the last time.

PGI. I implore you. You have a magnificent product that I will happily spend hours on end playing and spending money on...once you get your ***** in gear and start listening to your players. You know, the people whom without being here you'd all have nothing? Yah. Us. Please. Read this. Learn from this. Actually LISTEN to this. Listen to US. This is your last chance for redemption. If you truly want to have a totally bad *** game that everyone likes and talks about and spends money on and shares with their friends and posts vids and pics online all over social media sites, then you'll start changing things for the better and start addressing the promises you made and come through.

If not. Well. May the Force be with you because my next step is legal action and I know I won't be alone once someone steps up with the balls to stare you down. And if that has to be me, then so be it.

Please keep everyone posted on the class action suit. I already have a request in for a refund for EVERY SINGLE DIME I've paid in to this game which is founders 120, 99 MC, and 80 overlord package. I gave them ten business days to process the credits.

After that their troubles begin.

[arghmace]

Just noticed one thing done right with 3PV.

FOV is fixed in 3PV. It's always the same no matter what you set in the config file.

This means that with my FOV setting of 80 I actually see more to my sides in 1PV than in 3PV - assuming I have a mech with proper side windows, of course.

[Chazer]

Flip-flopping stances is fine as long as there is clear and timely communication. The way PGI operates has continued to shred any trust they had with me to begin with.

[Mussie076]

I have been A MW since desktop, I still remeber my very first game with the learner mechs.

I am Very old school MW 2 was the best PC game of my generation.

So I shook my head when i read about 3PP.

I shook it again a few minutes ago when I read the patch notes.

But I just realised something, now my kids can get into it, they have tried but just did not get the feel of it.

So long as 3PP is used as a steping stone then I have no problem.

Just make the game better by being in 1PP so that they will stive to be good enough to pilot that way.

Maybe more XP od C bills or something

Thanks

[Mussie076]

Wow legal action I think some of my MW breatheren need to take a step back from the pilot seat for a afew days.....
Legendary
Overlord
Just incase your wondering

[tuffy963]

More test video on the uses (abuses?) of 3rd POV. My goal is to demonstrate these developing tactics based on 3rd POV and provide feedback to the devs. I am not interested in the flame war associated with this topic.

This video is a bit longer that last test, so I have documented the points of interest...

00:45 - I keep a risk free eye on these guys while we trade LRM shots. Notice they can see my probe, but they cannot hit me. No risk to me and I get to save missiles since I know the targets are not "good" LRM targets as they will not hold locks long enough for my missiles to reach. I get this information without having to expose my mech to danger.

01:20 - LRMs incoming, no problem my FOV allows me more awareness of my surroundings and I grab cover behind the drop ship skeleton with little to no energy/time wasted.

01:45 Jager is making a run for it. I can see (with 3 POV) he has a lot of ground to cover, to get to cover, so I take an extra LRM shot on him. Might not have taken that shot if I had to decide with only a paper doll to look at.

02:04 - Couple of assaults see my probe and try to suppress me with PPC fire. Sorry, I have figured out optimal use of my probe now, no shot for you...

02:40 - I notice a stalker out of the "corner of my eye". I am not sure I would have spotted him in 1st person.

As an LRM boat, and re-watching this part of the video, I find it strange that I do not flee the stalker. Looking back, I think this because I am able to keep an eye on him in 3rd POV. Since I know I am faster than him. I just fall back when he looks at me, and pop him when he turns away.

The rest of the video has other small moments of me playing peek-a-boo with other mechs trying to use 3rd POV to maximum effect.




I don't think any of these examples are providing an extreme advantage, but the more I use it, the more opportunities I find to maximize it's use. Those are starting to add up...

I will keep recording vids and posting my feedback as I identify other interesting uses of 3rd POV...

Edited by tuffy963, 22 August 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[Mussie076]

Hmm what about a fixed downward angle on the 3PP
And lowering the level of the view like in MW4 where it was on the Left or Right side of the mech

[Pendraco]

I think it would be best for them to just remove 3pv, write a nice long apology to the thousands of paying customers that had to have it - explaining that at this point in time the game is just not ready for it. But they promise to revisit the idea sometime in the future after CW has been fully implemented.

Edited by Pendraco, 22 August 2013 - 11:21 AM.