2021 replies to this topic

[skamage]

Rodel Ituralde, on 22 August 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

OK, this is beyond a joke now. Refund the money please.

For anyone in Canada: [size=4]

For anyone in Australia: http://www.accc.gov....sleading-claims

I'm sure many other countries have similar laws.

I mainly pointed to Canada because that is where PGI's HQ resides.

[jarilm]

I have spent nearly 200$ for this game, but I will not play nor even log in before I can play without available 3rd person mode. It is not just about the possible advantage you might get from it in certain situations, but the thought of it. End result being I would feel that I would need to jump into 3rd person view from time to time (like when in behind a rock or a building) to be at the same level with other players.

If your reasoning for the 3rd person really is "for teaching new players how to play MWO", how the torso etc. works, you should add the 3rd person mode to tutorial / training grounds, obviously. Now you are trying to court new group of players to play the game. Personally I think you are aiming for too big gaming audience, this game is not for everyone IMO. By adding this feature, you will get some new players, sure, but you will also lose others.

[TheNose]

From a technical point "SIMULATION" might be the wrong term.

"CANON" sounds way more valid and logical.

When MW began the evolution of drones wasn't to see, but today calling drones and a 3 PV as against the simulation aspect of the game doesn't sound right.

Just say your immersion into the canon is corrupted, but simulation is somehow not fitting here.

[Jakob Knight]

"We simply decided that we felt it was likely not necessary and probably detrimental to split the community and with that in mind not worth delaying or holding out of the product when we could possibly see great benefit from the feature as we approach and cross over into official launch."

In other words, they didn't think it was necessary or worthwhile to do what they promised they would do.

This is why I cannot accept the apology posted. They are apologizing for a failure in communication, not for failing to keep a promise made to the playerbase upon which implementation of 3PV hinged (which is what the actual issue is). A failure to tell someone you are not going to uphold an agreement is not justification for failing to uphold the agreement, it's an excuse attempting to deflect responsibility.

This worries me almost more than anything else about this. That the Devs, when told point-blank what their error was, still could not understand where they were wrong. I just don't know.

The only thing they can do now is action. Their words aren't going to do the job at this point. They have to follow through on their promise to split the queues. Nothing else will work at this point to heal the split (if it can be healed).

[Jack Gallows]

Failcube, on 21 August 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Holy unreasonable anger, Batman!

Reading through these comments I get sadfaced that very few people seem to pay attention to the fact that there are Hardcore modes coming. What could that possibly mean I wonder?

Keep in mind, the game is still in beta and this is part of wide-testing. It's going to be different in three weeks no matter what. Chill. Wait. Think. Chill. Chill... CHILL

Actually, Russ pretty much just said there is a big possibility there won't be a "hardcore" mode. You also cannot tell someone to not get mad over being lied to, nor the way this information was (wasn't) presented. Telling someone to "chill" when a game developer has repeatedly ignored it's playerbase and gone back on promises made is a bit naive don't you think? It's not solely about not liking 3PV, but the root of the issue surrounding it.

Also, you can take the "It's just beta" and shove it somewhere unpleasant. F2P games don't get the "but it's beta" defense when they ask you to pay money for that beta. Hell, just between the two "founder" packs they've asked for more then 200 dollars. Yea, you don't have to pay....but there's THOUSANDS of games out there that cost only 60 bucks to buy that have 5 times the content this game has.

So, look beyond the obvious uproar about 3PV and see the real issues.

EvilCow, on 22 August 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

The truth is that they are desperate:

Just MWO: http://www.google.co...mwomercs&cmpt=q
Add Star Citizen: http://www.google.co...0citizen&cmpt=q
Add War Thunder: http://www.google.co...0thunder&cmpt=q
Add World of Tanks: http://www.google.co...%20tanks&cmpt=q

On top of that they feel it is a good idea to enrage the small community they have, destroy the only real strength Mechwarrior historically had.

Smart move.

This goes to show how public perception heavily influences your business.

Chris Roberts has a pedigree that can't be denied. Everyone knows he can make a 5 star game because he's done it for the past 25 years time after time. Star Citizen is going to be another notch in the cap and it's going to be MASSIVE. His tech demo he funded himself was more put together then anything MW:O put out in 2 years of development. Star Citizen as of this writing has generated over 15 million dollars in backing for a game not even in Alpha yet.

War Thunder also has a company with a strong background of making good games. Add in the fact they don't really have any pay to win even though the game is free, is better put together by FAR then MW:O is even though it's still in BETA as well (but they don't treat their customers like it's beta,) and that your money goes a HELL of a lot farther. 20 Dollars in MW:O gets you a hero mech, 20 dollars in War Thunder gets you 5 planes, or an endless amount of crew points, or convert it directly into hundreds of thousands of currency, or...the list goes on.

I'm not a big World of Tanks fan, but then it's the only game of it's kind right now really...but that's changing on the horizon and I'd expect it's consumer base to falter a bit (especially once ground forces in War Thunder emerge.)

Edited by Jack Gallows, 22 August 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[TheNose]

Jack Gallows, on 22 August 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

Also, you can take the "It's just beta" and shove it somewhere unpleasant. F2P games don't get the "but it's beta" defense when they ask you to pay money for that beta. Hell, just between the two "founder" packs they've asked for more then 200 dollars. Yea, you don't have to pay....but there's THOUSANDS of games out there that cost only 60 bucks to buy that have 5 times the content this game has.

Founders took a risk, I bet that has been discussed on the internet and many people had told you what can happen.
And even the devs have been warned, that they will pretty sure create angry and unforgiving monsters in taking so much money from players, if the case occures, where thos founders wouldn't get what they want.

Thats why my mom never gave me a lolly in the first place.

[Benlor]

I really hope the PGI realized by now that the majority of the player base does not want to have 3pv. If they care is a totally different question. Personally I dislike the 3pv as most active players here in the forum.

It is not the first time a company really wants to publish something great, but shipwrecks with their idea / solution, but only great and wise companies admit, that they made a mistake and reroll. I guess we will see in the future what PGI makes of it.

My recommondation concerning 3pv is, to make it a consumable module! Therefor people who like it can still use it, but have to buy it to get its bonus effect (to look around corners), but the effect is limited in it's effectiveness, because one has to leave something useful out. Additionally I would enable 3pv for all cadets (first 20 matches), therefor new players can learn to pilot and know that there is a 3pv.

[Kate Moulain]

Goodbye everyone. I'm out. xx

[Madwilly]

PGI is making a huge mistake if they do not implement separate ques without 3pv ASAP. And it's mistakes like these that make me question if this game is going to survive very long.

[Divine Madcat]

Your Friend Mr Rogers, on 21 August 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

I don't see the problem with it, but what does it matter. I am saying that the game play itself has not changed one bit for me. Now I do understand the people who are angry about PGI blatantly lying. The people that are saying the 3pv is OP or whatever, I really don't see it even with the fancy diagram posted many times though out this topic. I don't see it, because when I am actually playing the game nothing is unfair or different.


As for corning peaking...
1. you do not have a radar
2. your sensors still won't be able to pick them up
3. they will know your there, because of the blinky drone
As for poptarting...
1. The blinky drone offsets that a bit
As for scouting...
1. THE GOSH DAMN BLINKY DRONE
2. can't receive target info
3. sensors will not pickup enemies(yes I know you can type their locations and type of mech, but without loadout info what does it matter?)

Above all else I never see anyone ever use it...

Does anyone else see the point I am trying to make!

Corner Peeking -
1 - Dont need radar with practically unlimited FOV. Unless everyone knows to hide behind the terrain at the exact angle to block you, you have a good chance of seeing them
2 - Again, if i can see em, i don't need it to. Can still call enemy targets.
3 - Assuming they are looking your way. Its quite possible the group is pointing any of the 270* that WON'T show your blinky drone...
Poptarting -
1 - .... Again, they have to be LOOKING right at you. If you flank them, they likely wont see your drone (the red light is not THAT bright).
Scouting
1 - I guess you have impressive eyes. Not once have i been able to see a mech's drone when they ARE BEHIND ME. Or anywhere out of my FOV for that matter..... You are amazing
2/3- Don't need it. If i can tell me team that a lance sized force of assault mechs is moving around to the right, then regardless of loadout, i just gave my team a huge upper hand; that flank they are doing is busted, and they may walk right to their deaths (or i just saved a couple of my mediums for getting plastered).

This isn't rocket science, to see why being able to see over terrain undetected is huge..

[tigermaster]

GIVE US OPTIONS!!!!!

options makes everyone happy, do you understand that?

i want to play 8v8
i want to play even 4v4 on some maps
i want to play with only 3pv
with only 1pv
with mixed 3pv/1pv

other funny modifications?

i want to play a light mech battle only
i want to play a medium mech battle only
i want to play a heavy mech battle only
i want to play a assault mech battle only
... your idea here....


GIVE US OPTIONS FFS!!!!!

Edited by tigermaster, 22 August 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[42and19]

As a BETA TESTER I am going to attempt to give some CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK on 3pv. I'm also going to create my own thread since I am sure this post will be buried under the slathering of unbridled rage on this thread.

First off I am having a lot of fun with 3pv in the game. I'm not running it myself for reasons I will get into in a bit. However, the drones really give me an advantage on the battlefield. Just the other day I cockpitted someone on forest colony right at the start of the match because they had a drone in the air. When piloting my jenner I tend to focus on the few 3pv players on the map because it is much easier to run hit-and-run tactics when you always know the precise location of your target.

That being said I am not sure it's the best thing to teach new players the ropes. I have a small twinge of guilt everytime I kill a 3pv user because I can't help but wonder if I didn't just stomp a person in their first or second drop. I remember those days and it was frustrating and I have played all previous iterations of MW. I guess what I am trying to say is that this could be detrimental to new players because while they are trying to get a hang of the game mechanics they may not have enough time since they will be targeted right off by jerks like me.

From my perspective playing in 3pv is painful. So I guess you guys nailed that one. As an experienced player I find 3pv to be sluggish and disorienting. aiming is a pain in the *** and the movements of the camera and the mech are somehow.....unnerving. Sorry I can't be more help as to why that is but I find myself very much uncomfortable while in 3pv.

Anyway, I hope that this post will help you all at PGI improve this game since I know that you are not trying to deliberately screw over the only people who actually give you money and I hope that I have done my job as a BETA TESTER.


**Edit** I wanted to ad that I agree completely and wholeheartedly with the above post. Options are awesome.

Edited by 42and19, 22 August 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[juxstapo]

3pv is stupid, but it isn't breaking me. (Didn't in mw4 either )

The only thing that really bothers me is Brian's remarks about "looking into alternate solutions" instead of a 1pv server.

[igavemymomkoolaid]

Exoth3rmic, on 20 August 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

If there's no 1pv hardcore que when I log in, I will be off for an extended break.

This being the case then I am off. The way you went about this is reprehensible.

Jacmac, on 20 August 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

How do I opt out of 3PV matches? That is all I care about! Go ahead and put 3PV in, but how do I opt out? I will not play in 3PV or with players playing 3PV.

If it isn't optional, then I just threw several hundred dollars down a rat hole and the game is over for me!!!

Warge, on 20 August 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

It'll be the first time I stop playing MWO... till 1PV-only is back. If this will not happen I'll be forced ask to return all money I paid for PGI.

Sorry, I just said "Goodbye" to those, who posted on the first four pages... it's too much to post 'em all.

I'm not that kind of a guy that likes all of this patch. I have "liked" pro posts and I have "liked" constructive criticsm. I don't "like" crybabies (maybe 95% in this thread). Get a life... if this patch is a reason to rage like that, I don't want to know what you do if you meet REAL problems. This is Beta, this is just an option.

If you think, it's not your game anymore... goodbye!
If you have spent money... bad luck!
If you think it's not good at all: post constructive ideas to help PGI.
If you think it's bad: F4... or ALT-F4 for the crybabies.
If you think it's unfair: let's try new strategies or tactics.
If you think it s*cks: it's BETA!!!

'nuff said.

Edited by igavemymomkoolaid, 22 August 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[Protection]

tigermaster, on 22 August 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

GIVE US OPTIONS!!!!!

options makes everyone happy, do you understand that?

i want to play 8v8
i want to play even 4v4 on some maps
i want to play with only 3pv
with only 1pv
with mixed 3pv/1pv

other funny modifications?

i want to play a light mech battle only
i want to play a medium mech battle only
i want to play a heavy mech battle only
i want to play a assault mech battle only
... your idea here....


GIVE US OPTIONS FFS!!!!!

The only reason that they wouldn't be doing the multiple queues thing because there are not enough people playing the game to keep two segregated player bases going.

[VATER]

zorak ramone, on 21 August 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

This is why the only realy option, for those of you who want 1PV only queues/gameplay, is to quit now.

Even if you keep playing without paying, you're still providing content for them. They need to loose players before they get the message: they can ignore the forums, but they can't ignore the implosion of their game.

Done deal....I am out until they come up with an acceptable solution and a trustworthy excuse.

[tuffy963]

Well, I have been playing a lot of 3pv to learn the in's and out's of the feature. I am still not very good at driving in 3pv (as the vid will show)... but I am getting better. While I don't fair particulaarly well in the captured game, I think this vid does a good job demonstrating the potential issues with a player base that will eventually become experts with 3pv...



I think the most telling moment is around the 2:00 mark when I catch sight of an Atlas in the volcano that would not have been visible to me in 1st person, that sets off a number exploitative moves, on my part, to avoid the rush over the top of the volcano.

Potential Implication: Players will eventually cobble together a list of maps and mechs builds that benefit most from 3pv and will dominate those situations. Playing at the top of this volcano is clearly more beneficial than other spots on this map. Combined with high mounted weapons, it becomes a significant advantage.

EDIT: I hope this is received as constructive feedback in the current sea of negativity on this thread...

Edited by tuffy963, 22 August 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Jern]

3PV is for my part an undesired element. I simply disagree that it is needed to help even new players drive mechs. I have helped many guildmates in their first ever MWo games and 1PV was never mentioned as an issue with their learning the game (we spend most of our time trying to walk them through the mechlab interface...but that is another topic). It seems impossible to completely limit 3PV from providing an unfair tactical advantage over 1PV and most of all it ruins the desired sim experience that most of us want.

Above and beyond those issues I feel that the time spent on 3pv was wasted and could have been used to advance real content that most of us want in the game. Now that you guys have seen fit to add 3pv to the game without the promised separate queues I feel disappointed and for the first time am having thoughts that perhaps you guys are just looking to take the game in a direction that is just unacceptable to my gaming organization.

PGI you have a very limited time to fix this issue before you lose what little integrity you have remaining.

Thanks,

Edited by Jern, 22 August 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[AgroAlba]

Been enjoying the patch. Don't really find 3Pv to be too much of an issue. However, something I would mention...

If the point of the 3Pv was to see the orientation of the legs to the torso, then y'all need to do something to correct this. Right now, unless you mess with the POV in an ini file, you can't really see your legs in some mechs.

[TANTE EMMA]

Well bargained and done, P.G.I.... You wont get no money from me no more.