92 replies to this topic

[Cerulean Knight]

Thank you, OP, and especially Wired, for being a voice of reason among the snarling posts I see in the primary feedback thread. This is the kind of posts that are needed (even if I am not agreeing with it 100%). Rage only begets rage.

I admit, I am not particularly angry about, well, anything that just happened yesterday, the 20th. I normally do not mind the decisions that they have made. I do not use uber-builds of the month (meaning the PPC and ghost heat changes did nothing to me) and I am at best a slightly above average player and I do not mind the fact that I am playing along side potential 3PV players. I am overall content and not easily startled at the changes made to the game. Nor will I be asking for a refund on any of the items I purchased relating to this game.

However, I did raise an eyebrow when I noticed 3PV was being pushed ahead in this patch without the separate ques. Considering how laid back I am, me going "hmm" is usually not a good thing. Honestly, if they would have even just gave a heads-up last week with a post explaining why the ques were not being implemented I would not have raised an eyebrow and would have instead just grabbed a bag of popcorn and enjoyed the inevitable flame posts (which, actually, I guess I still am, to speak honestly).

Edited by Cerulean Knight, 21 August 2013 - 02:18 AM.

[Mr Blonde]

I tried playing last night despite my sadness at the situation. Every time I saw one of those little drones it was very depressing. The only good news was that it appeared that, with very few exceptions, the only time I saw them was when someone didn't realize they were DEFAULTED to using this, and quickly switched. I was distracted by my constant desire to shoot 3PV-using teammates in the back, but otherwise did OK.

However, I now agree that the only way to make them listen is to act. I am officially on strike! I will of course still check in on TS to chat with my buds, but I'm done playing as PGI has put such a bad taste in my mouth with this travesty. As people have said, there are other games (Rome 2, I'm looking at you...) and I'm sure my family will appreciate the extra time with them. PGI, good luck with the console kiddies and whatever other demo you claim loves 3PV so much. I will monitor to see if and when this is fixed.

[Wired]

Nekki Basara, on 21 August 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

I'm not co-opting anything, and to be honest the suggestion is laughable given that Tice Daurus has posted a link to his inevery #saveMWO thread looking for support (IE: the reverse could be argued). The simple fact of the matter is, what he identifies as the main problem here is the main problem that #saveMWO has been talking about.

He's completely right, but it's not a new message for the powers that be.

Well I didnt see that Sorry. Your movement agitates me for reasons I am not going to get into and I let that get in the way of what is important at the moment.

[Toothless]

Im not quite as militant, but I will say that I introduce a lot of friends to MWO and pretty much this entire year Ive had to say "(the core game is fun, etc)...but the developers are complete douchebags."

And they are, this is the only game Ive got going where I consistently feel like its a non stop money grab for so little effort, plus they are disengenuous. I play Mechwarrior because I have since 1995, and I feel its a shame its held back by these guys.

I like paying money for things in games, I do it with Blacklight and Tribes all the time, but Ive stopped giving PGI money a long time ago.

[Ensaine]

I bought a $60 Founders pack back in CB, and I still have 5500 MC from that. Haven't touched the MC in a LONG time, and won't for a LONG time.

As I brought friends in who still play, but won't spend until the ******** C-Bill nerf get's reversed/offset, I can't just abandon them, so, I'll occasionally be playing, and using PGI's resources for FREE.

Sad attitude to have. I played WoW for 8 years ponying up my $15/month - $180/year. Had NO problem paying that. Even bought a few cash mounts once they came out.

Here, I'm stopping all expenditures until we get a dev team that cares about the customers. I don't see that here. Russ's posts on Twitter, well, beyond uncool.

A good drop buddy wanted to buy MC last night.... I advised against it, and he actually agreed once he loaded the client and got 3PV (complete waste of time, energy, money and people) jammed in his face.

I will continue to advise anyone who will listen, to avoid spending any money on this game.

I'm sick of these guys ignoring any and every sane suggestion. They started this {Scrap} in closed beta. though at one point, we Beta testers got Open Beta delayed for a short time, that was the last time this dev team did anything major based on the community input.

I'm a MW fan, not a PGI fan. It's my opinion that these guys are using a great IP as a front for a money grab. I, like many others, waited 13 years for the IP to be re-awakened.

We get THESE guys. Who probably sat at the round table, brainstorming about which inactive IP they can capitalize on. And, it's plain and simply obvious, they just do not have a solid clue about what direction to take this game in.

This game is a skin with no real fruit inside. And getting worse.

[Draco Harkins]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

I'm ripping this word for word from an earlier post here, but this explains the outrage many of us are currently feeling at this moment...



One final thing for the people complaining that we're crying about 3PV....well, we are, somewhat...but that's not the point. The point is Bryan from PGI gave us his promise from PGI's stance that this was never going to happen. It has. On top of it, he now says that PGI isn't going to put in 1PV servers until they fix other more important key issues. My response to Bryan, Paul, Russ, and all of PGI is that this...is your MOST KEY IMPORTANT ISSUE EVER FOR PGI, keeping your word. And if you don't do right by us, expect a sh*tstorm to follow. And this is not me threatening PGI to do right by us or else thread. This is not me or the rest of the player base throwing a tantrum. I don't want to turn this into a "PGI SUX" thread. All I am saying is this and I'll make this the TL;DR version here for everyone...

TL;DR - We the player base are upset at PGI for blatantly breaking their promise to the player base in which we are being forced to play in a mixed server system with both 1PV/3PV players which can switch back and forth, when we were promised that 1PV players could play the game with all 24 players in a match play in a strict 1PV ONLY matchup. The issue isn't how bad 3PV is, it's about PGI KEEPING THEIR PROMISE TO US.

For everyone that AGREES with this, please post your LIKE for this post to show PGI we are seriously upset with PGI and this is what we're really mad about.

I've been saying this from the beggining when i said 3pv was a betrayal of the original manifesto that Russ so spread to get the old BT players from mektek forum's, but its sure gratifying to see i wasnt alone afterall. Like Tice i explained for a long time that it wasnt the gameplay implementation that worried me, it was the dev/player communication and constant break of credibilty. At the time i was called over and over a fool, now the same persons most probably are hitting F4 and regretting their trust.

But i digress, i entirely agree that we the players have the power, if we just stop bying, they will feel it where it hurts the more (specially these days where its all about profit) in the wallet. Myself i've, despite my undying love for those iconic mechs (Grayson Death Carlyle's Shadow Hawk, Lori Kalmar's Locust i could go on and on), stayed out of the Phoenix project blantant appeal to the AGAIN old BT players (or as the internet call's us, the whales) with extreme strenght of will, trust me it wasnt easy since i love Alex's work, as i love Hayden's and alot of good artists in this company, i simply dont trust their bosses.

Can we get them into the two way street? I've been fighting for sometime now and so i'm tired so i would say no i dont believe they will meet us half way. I continue to foresee this game with a lifespan of only 2 years max with current leadership.

I plan to enjoy my founders pack and the free to play side to the utmost (i havent bought a hero mech for months despite the firebrand and the Misery being powerhouses for my role of fire support and havent bought premium for even longer and it will remain like that for the foreseeable future), until its totally unplayable.

Still i will support your iniciative as i can Tice.

Edited by Draco Harkins, 21 August 2013 - 03:51 AM.

[Riptor]

What ruffles my feathers the way the most is the way in wich they lied to us.


Up until the very minute that the patch hit the server there was not a single word of them changing their view about 1st person only queues.

Even thought they had to know ATLEAST a week beforehand that they had no intentions of having seperate queues.. that is not something you decide an hour before the patch goes live.

So basically they didnt had the balls to actually confront their community and tell them: "Well yeah we changed our minds."

No they did that only AFTER they created facts in the hope that people will simply accept it.

And they keep doing it over and over and over, going against their own words, deadlines, promises for information about upcomming features.

It is as if this company was made up of compulsive liars... as if they are simply unable to say the truth or stay to their word.

There is absolutely no reason to trust PGI on ANYTHING they say since really... they break their word at the wave of a hand without even having the balls to say so before they create facts.. and this company wants out money more then anything else! (as evidenced by them nerfing cbill gain because aparantly we got to much for our money)

Also their smugness and absolute disregard for their core community ("i am done discussing 3 PV" yeah.. how dare the dirty unwashed masses demand from the high lord that he keeps the promises made by members of his court right russ?)

If you cant or dont intend to keep your promises STOP MAKING THEM

[StaIker]

You guys might like to keep in mind that this is a test case for comparing what people say on the forums to what they do with their time and money. If this move results in little or no impact to them, they'll have all the proof they need that people actually don't care about it overall, even if it is a broken advantage. The ONLY way to register your disapproval is to not login and play. If you play, you send the signal that you will stick with them. It doesn't matter what you say here, if your actions support them. It's that simple.

[Nekki Basara]

Wired, on 21 August 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

Well I didnt see that Sorry. Your movement agitates me for reasons I am not going to get into and I let that get in the way of what is important at the moment.

No worries. Pretend it didn't happen. We're all on the same team here, no need to hold grudges.

[Kraven Kor]

Listen guys, there is only one option here as it is clear they do not #GiveA@#$%.

Bye

[DisasterMedic]

Hello, I believe the thread you are looking for is #saveMWO Townhall 3

[sokitumi]

Is this the fool me 15x shame on you crowd or what?

[Lucian Nostra]

I Feel like I'm sure many others due that PGI just sees the $$$ and thinks we're all idiots.

For me this goes beyond 3pv, this is just a culmination of PGI going back on their word and game design over and over

From don't worry the pilot trees are just a place holder, to this is the pilot tree.
No coolant flush to having coolant flush
No 3pv, to we're just testing what it takes but we have no intentions of adding 3pv, to 3pv with queues to just 3pv.
Reduced rewards because of 12v12 so it'll be the same, to you all were making to much, to oh yeah we're adding more in later.

This is just off the top of my head but it's like PGI just can not wait to lie or go back on a prior statement about the game, than when called out by angry customers has the BALLs to mock them for it. With statements like "your on an island" to "I heard the 3pv drone made you stand out" next response will be "So I H34rd you lik3 Mudkipz!!"

PGI has a strong case of "daddy knows best" and "if you don't like it than **** and leave" well.. I haven't played much in the last 2 weeks. My Premium time ran out before the 12v12 patch and I haven't re-upped it... been playing a lot more War Thunder lately.. just started up premium time over there.. looking at a buying some premium planes for my Japanese line..

I'd also like to point out that per the 3pv why thread that this was done to teach new players how to play. What a waste, the view is {Scrap}, aiming is difficult the map is gone. This doesn't teach anything.

And I find it funny that there is no tutorial first, or explination on the loading screens of how to move or anything. When you have friends over and your all "hey check this game out!" and you hand them the controller what's the first thing you do? Tell them how the controls work...

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 21 August 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[Tice Daurus]

I just wanted to post regarding #saveMWO and this thread. I did ask for the people who participated in the #saveMWO thread because this issue is indeed one in the same or at least very similar. I will say I don't support every single issue #saveMWO is asking for but the MAIN issue is developer trust and them backing out on promises that they were supposed to keep. This is an issue we can all agree on along with developer communication.

As of right now, I view this as a betrayal of trust on part of the developer team at PGI. But let's look at this from an entirely different prospective here. I've had time to sleep on this and think hard and clear about this. What if this isn't a developer issue. What if they purposely intended to do this, and yet they didn't consult Bryan on this issue, because he was on vacation, and did this anyway, and no one else at PGI picked up the ball on behalf of Bryan's part and never posted to the community that this was going to take place where they would mix in 1PV and 3PV players together for one week to test this out? What if this was a HUGE fowl up on the developer who was supposed to put this in yet they didn't tell anyone or post anything about this?

If that is indeed the case, then once again, PGI has failed us once more. Not only did they break their promise, but they damaged themselves again by providing us with non-communication the issue to us properly.

I'm serious in this. All someone had to do is post this on the forums:

"For our player base,

Guys, we know we promised we wouldn't force players in mixing people to play 1PV and 3PV together, but we need people to help us accurately test how both 1PV/3PV mix together and integrate together. And in order to do that, we have to get people to play this. Folks, this is still BETA, as we're not officially launched as a release. We're asking the player community to do us a solid and help us test this. We need your help to continue to make the game as good as it can be.
We promise in 7 days to open up the 1PV only queue, so people who want to go back can go back playing 1PV only. But we really need your help and we're under the gun here and your help to us matters.

Thanks,

The Development team."

*********************************

Now, if they had done that, there probably would have still been some grumblings regarding mixing 1PV/3PV together, but we would have done exactly what would have been asked us...IF they had posted something like that. We as their BETA team would have been happy to do that, if they took 5 minutes to type something like that up. It sure wasn't hard for me to do it. I whipped that up easy. So...my question is why couldn't they have done that?

If Bryan was on vacation, RUSS should have stepped in and did this or he should have delegated someone else to take over while Bryan was on vacation. But he didn't. Thus once again, PGI has failed.

For Bryan, Russ, Paul, and the rest of PGI's team, we understand that you guys have a job to do but you have to communicate with us. YOU HAVE TO BECAUSE IT'S YOUR JOB. If I would have done this in my job setting (even though right now I'm unemployed at the moment) and it was my responsibility to communicate to my team regarding something that was known was supposed to happen, and I didn't and the day came when the event was supposed to happen and my customers were upset that I didn't inform them of a change in policy...I WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED.

You guys need to seriously rethink why you are here and if I were Wizkids, Inc./Microsoft who is giving you the right to license this franchise out, I would seriously be looking at reevaluating PGI as to if you guys are capable enough to handle the Mechwarrior franchise and license.

[MizarPanzer]

I completely agree with the OP. 3rd PV is not an issue for me. What I do have an issue is that PGI has created a deep sense of mistrust between them and the players considering how they can backtrack on statement made a mere couple of months ago.

[Warge]

Deathlike, on 20 August 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

I still would rather have people not play the Wednesday after patch day aka "Disapproval Wednesday" where the inactivity of the playerbase will hopefully demonstrate to PGI that we disapprove of their patch change...

Don't playing since 20.08 patch. Will this change anything? Don't think so...

[Mal]

Tice Daurus, on 20 August 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

I've already told them I will no longer be playing the game, buying anything else, or supporting their BETA testing until 1PV is put back into the game. It's as simple as that. Until it's in, this game goes on a backburner, and I'll be busy elsewhere.

I've done the same. I popped back on to the forums today, in a naive hope that Russ or Bryan will have made a statement addressing our concerns. Unsurprisingly, that hasn't happened.

[Tice Daurus]

Mal, on 21 August 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

I've done the same. I popped back on to the forums today, in a naive hope that Russ or Bryan will have made a statement addressing our concerns. Unsurprisingly, that hasn't happened.

Every day, every hour they go without posting a response to this problem, things are going to get worse. If I were Bryan, since he's responsible for communicating with the player base here on the forums, I would either be here responding to people anger regarding this issue, or posting a Community Chair post with him and Russ both on it explaining their position.

[Chronojam]

Almost every time the forums are burning, it could have been solved by simply communicating with players either before or after whatever ridiculous change is announced -- probably best if both. Communicating, of course, means not just spewing declarations but also listening to feedback and taking rational action.

The sudden reversal on third person view reminds me of the sudden reversal on ghost heat: I know that idea was brought up at least a month before it was suddenly sprung on players, and at the time, the reaction had been overwhelmingly negative. Yet, PGI suddenly threw it upon everybody and then acted almost offended when we didn't give standing applause to Paul's Magnum Opus: Ghost Heat. They're inviting this sort of confrontation with the playerbase.

[Darkblood]

I don´t only agree with you, but I´ll also repost what I posted in the 3PV feedback thread:

Darkblood, on 21 August 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Well, once again the plans change: no separate queues.

Well there's this thing economists keep saying: if you want people to invest in you, you need to make them feel safe, they need to feel reasonably confident of what they will get for their money in the long run.

PGI keeps asking us to do just that, in the form of pre-release packages of all sorts (It´s a pretty safe bet another one of those we´ll come if we ever see the Clans). I for one, bought the following:

(1) Legendary founder´s, way before this game was shaped
(2) A U$100, 25000 MC pack, which I intended to use during the following 6-7 months of play (figuring 15 bucks a month is OK)
(3) A U$80 Phoenix pack, which I will no be able to use till October (if we can trust that!)

That´s a lot of money for a single game, mind you. Now I see I bought these on unfulfilled promises. I won´t go around screaming "I want my money back", because I understand that investment means risk. I took the risk that this would be a certain kind of Mech game. Sadly it is becoming the opposite of what I was made to envision, but the risk was mine.

What does change in my mindset is that PGI migrated gradually from "a bet" to a "very high risk bet", in the sense that I have no idea whatsoever of what comes next. It´s just a very palpable possibility that soon we will hear something along the lines of "after careful consideration and internal testing we decided that Community Warfare/Clan Invasion/UI2.0 are really not really a contribution to this game and scraped them" or something along those lines.

So, I´m done with giving them money, simply because I cannot trust them to know where this game is going. Once they find it out, if this turns out to be a game I like, then I will think about it again (even them I´ll be very careful about the long run support these guys are willing to maintain on this game). The only real reason I´m still playing is a tenuous hope for a CW that doesn´t suck and the friends I made on the TS server. Sadly those friends are rapidly moving to other games and I might end up quitting with about 14000 MC sitting on my account and without even breaking that Battlemaster I already paid for...