77 replies to this topic

[James The Fox Dixon]

Bump and yay to the mods for the unlock.

[Johnny Z]

Agree with the original poster. But I totally understand the downer that was unfinished 3pv. I wouldnt take some venting to seriously, did my share .

Also some players have been here a long time waiting for a finished product. And any posters from other games will try to be always downers on mwo forums, i am sad to say.

Either way when MWO comes out I will be very happy, its been a bit of a wait. Hope i get a chance to try it out first day

[Julian Huxley]

James The Fox Dixon, on 22 August 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

It is very classy of you Russ to write up an apology to the spoiled children that you are ashamed to call customers. I apologize on behalf of the community for the behaviour of these children and state that I understand why you don't listen to your forum community more. I would ask that you would have your employees moderate the forums and other communication channels more vigorously by banning all of these children that violate the rules of your house.

WarHippy, on 22 August 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Please stop trolling. You have no right to apologizes for anyone but yourself, and running around the forums constantly name calling really inspires better forum etiquette. Stop being a hypocriet and try making things better rather than worse.

Consideration

The key to consideration is thoughtful behavior. Being thoughtful means thinking about what you can do for those around you and how your actions will affect them. Consideration leads us to help a friend or stranger in need, to bestow a token of appreciation, or to offer praise.

Honesty

Honesty ensures that we act sincerely and with integrity. It's the basis of tact: using empathy to "find the positive truth and telling or acting on it, without causing embarrassment or pain."


That's from you OP.

So James, your zeal for considerate action has been noted, but either your thoughts about what you can do are perhaps not optimal, or are you not entirely honest with yourself, or, and it gives me no pleasure to say this, your sincerity and integrity regarding your motives and desired results are questionable.

Just my perceprtion after browsing through your last 4 pages of posting history.

Personally, I hate wasting time discussing motive, peoples intentions as well as collections of people or entities, or those of other constructs, legal, social, mechanical, biological etc. etc.

I prefer to look at the results. That leaves me with the two other possibilities put forward for your consideration.

1. Either you are attempting something beyond your ability, due to your thought process not operating at a high enough level, whether temporarily or permanently. Maybe it is beyond everyone's ability.

2. You are cheating yourself, i.e. integrity, biologically or otherwise, has been compromised.

Limitations, mistakes, and coping mechanisms are natural and nothing to be ashamed of.
I prefer honest assessment of oneself and others over modesty and silence in general, and the volume and persistence of your efforts is to your credit.

Hopefully you can imagine why people react to you the way they do.

Word to the wise: don't waste your time questioning others stated intentions, it does not lead to solutions anyway. Try to assume good faith. As they say hope for the best and prepare for the worst. In this context should the worst seem inevitable this would mean ignoring those posts, or collections of post, or walking away from the whole thing.

Hoping for the best, yours truly.

P.S. Consistent reporting of violations to mods or acquiring mod powers would seem the simple answer to those violations. After all, PGI has your interests at heart, as a poster but you yourself are not party to any agreement between others and PGI. Simple solutions are usually less likely to have mixed results.

Edited by Julian Huxley, 24 August 2013 - 01:51 AM.

[Accursed Richards]

Thing is, insisting on "politeness" or "etiquette" without underlying respect often means that you can be just as insulting as ever, just so long as you wrap it in a thin sheen of civility. It becomes an art form to make your intent clear, but stay juuuuust within the rules. As this poster proves:

Julian Huxley, on 23 August 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

1. Either you are attempting something beyond your ability, due to your thought process not operating at a high enough level, whether temporarily or permanently. Maybe it is beyond everyone's ability.

2. You are cheating yourself, i.e. integrity, biologically or otherwise, has been compromised.

In the end, the calls for "etiquette" are just one more way to get that sweet rush of feeling superior to someone else on the internet.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Accursed Richards, on 24 August 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

Thing is, insisting on "politeness" or "etiquette" without underlying respect often means that you can be just as insulting as ever, just so long as you wrap it in a thin sheen of civility. It becomes an art form to make your intent clear, but stay juuuuust within the rules. As this poster proves:

In the end, the calls for "etiquette" are just one more way to get that sweet rush of feeling superior to someone else on the internet.

If you had read the first post you would see that Respect is the first paragraph.

Respect

Respecting other people means recognizing their value as human beings, regardless of their background, race, or creed. It's demonstrated in all your day-to-day relations - refraining from demeaning others for their ideas and opinions, refusing to laugh at racist or sexist jokes, putting prejudices aside, and staying open-minded. We show respect not just by what we refrain from doing but also by intentional acts, such as being on time, dressing appropriately, or giving our full attention to the person or people we're with.

Self-respect is just as important as respect for others. A person who respects herself isn't boastful or pushy but is secure in a way that inspries confidence in others. She values herself regardless of her physical attributes or individual talents, understanding that integrity and character are what really matter.

[EyeDie I]

Metagame

Discuss the present meta-game: GXP, MC. CBills, and consumables of MechWarrior® Online™

where should this post be moved to?all it consumed is peoples time.

[Wurzelkobold]

James The Fox Dixon, on 22 August 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Yes, I can see that, but it's the mode of expressing their anger that leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of the things I've read since 3PV, you definitely wouldn't say that to someone in their own house when you are a stranger without suffering repercussions. Maybe that is what PGI should be doing to people that totally and completely violate the rules of their house and removing those disrespecting people from their house.

Yes, you are right that some people write stuff they shouldn`t say that way to express theire anger. But don`t forget the people you want to remove from the house are the people that pay the rent.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Wurzelkobold, on 24 August 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Yes, you are right that some people write stuff they shouldn`t say that way to express theire anger. But don`t forget the people you want to remove from the house are the people that pay the rent.

I'll point out that if someone did that in a store or any other public place they would be arrested, so that is not an excuse. There are other people that pay the rent as well like me.

[Gruinhardt]

James The Fox Dixon, on 24 August 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

I'll point out that if someone did that in a store or any other public place they would be arrested, so that is not an excuse. There are other people that pay the rent as well like me.

You're right. If someone does that in a store, they should be asked to leave, or arrested if they do not. This may be a bad experience for the store owner, but they need to get over it. The store owner cannot treat existing customers or new ones, based on bad experiences with a few. There are some very vocal and some rude people on this forum, but the majority of players just want the game to succeed. And PGI is going to have to accept criticism for decisions.

[Sephlock]

James The Fox Dixon, on 22 August 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I'm going to give those that think by acting like children is the best way to achieve the results they want a crash course in etiquette. Thank ya Emily Post.

The Principles of Etiquette


Respect

Respecting other people means recognizing their value as human beings, regardless of their background, race, or creed. It's demonstrated in all your day-to-day relations - refraining from demeaning others for their ideas and opinions, refusing to laugh at racist or sexist jokes, putting prejudices aside, and staying open-minded. We show respect not just by what we refrain from doing but also by intentional acts, such as being on time, dressing appropriately, or giving our full attention to the person or people we're with.
Self-respect is just as important as respect for others. A person who respects herself isn't boastful or pushy but is secure in a way that inspries confidence in others. She values herself regardless of her physical attributes or individual talents, understanding that integrity and character are what really matter.
Consideration

The key to consideration is thoughtful behavior. Being thoughtful means thinking about what you can do for those around you and how your actions will affect them. Consideration leads us to help a friend or stranger in need, to bestow a token of appreciation, or to offer praise.
Honesty

Honesty ensures that we act sincerely and with integrity. It's the basis of tact: using empathy to find the positive truth and telling or acting on it, without causing embarrassment or pain.

You forgot the big two:

Abuse

Threats

Without them, you'll never make it into the big league.

The league.... of legends.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Gruinhardt, on 24 August 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

You're right. If someone does that in a store, they should be asked to leave, or arrested if they do not. This may be a bad experience for the store owner, but they need to get over it. The store owner cannot treat existing customers or new ones, based on bad experiences with a few. There are some very vocal and some rude people on this forum, but the majority of players just want the game to succeed. And PGI is going to have to accept criticism for decisions.

I believe that PGI has never been in this position before and now are just learning how they should react from now on. Criticism is one thing, but verbal abuse is another and no one should have to put up with it.

[Royalewithcheese]

Why isn't this thread in K-Town?

[Gruinhardt]

James The Fox Dixon, on 24 August 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

I believe that PGI has never been in this position before and now are just learning how they should react from now on. Criticism is one thing, but verbal abuse is another and no one should have to put up with it.

Verbal abuse happens, I'm not condoning it, but it happens no the less. I do not expect professional behavior from forum posters, but do expect it from businesses I give money to. PGI cannot lower itself to the level of a few bad posters, but many posters do have legitimate complaints.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Gruinhardt, on 24 August 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Verbal abuse happens, I'm not condoning it, but it happens no the less. I do not expect professional behavior from forum posters, but do expect it from businesses I give money to. PGI cannot lower itself to the level of a few bad posters, but many posters do have legitimate complaints.

Except the behavior I posted about is societal behavior which is respect, etc... That is not professional behavior, but common sense behavior.

[Thuzel]

James The Fox Dixon, on 22 August 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Yes, I can see that, but it's the mode of expressing their anger that leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of the things I've read since 3PV, you definitely wouldn't say that to someone in their own house when you are a stranger without suffering repercussions. Maybe that is what PGI should be doing to people that totally and completely violate the rules of their house and removing those disrespecting people from their house.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." JFK.

Anyone who deals with customers needs to memorize and understand that quote. In a nutshell, it means that people will find an outlet for their grievances, one way or another. It is in the best interest of all involved to provide a constructive outlet, or a destructive one will eventually be created.

PGI apparently never learned that, however, which is why things are so bad. People were pretty reasonable last year. They were reasonable for a long time, but their concerns and grievances went almost entirely unheeded. Not only that, but PGI actively removed their voice by deleting, moving, and hiding threads. So, the people eventually created their own outlet.

And, because PGI had taken our money and made a lot of promises, people grew more and more strident. As soon as they took funding from us, it was no longer entirely PGI's house. Sure we had no legal claim, but PGI took money in exchange for promises and that counts for something. PGI was accountable to us on some level. We became invested even if we technically weren't investors.

The truth is that PGI created this monster. Now they get to deal with it. Let's hope they've learned something from all this.

[Gruinhardt]

James The Fox Dixon, on 24 August 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Except the behavior I posted about is societal behavior which is respect, etc... That is not professional behavior, but common sense behavior.

If you are expecting proper social behavior or common sense behavior from a internet based community, you will be deeply disappointed. But I will still expect professional behavior from PGI. It has been said that this game has a steep learning curve, the same can be said for video game development. I do not fault people here for being passionate about this game. No one wants to wait another 10 years.

[RedThirteen]

Let's see... there are generally three behaviours one can encounter in a pug (?) game - outright silence, trolling on the fail/facepalm side of the spectrum (right. delete system32 to switch weapons....), or casual conversation, the latter of which helps break the monotony and increases game enjoyment. that or dev bashing. I WANT TACKLING BACK

[Marmon Rzohr]

+1

For the innovative and nice OP

To those saying that anger or frustration is justified given PGI's tone and responses:
Yes, but the mark of a true intellectual is the ablitiy to distinguish personal emotion from conduct. It is also the nature of politeness, that it does not depend on the behaviour of others.

In other, words, they make me mad too, but since i love this game and community, it doesn't make me want to say rude things or rage, but rather to try and be argumentative and constructive, because that preserves the good nature of the community.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 25 August 2013 - 01:32 AM.