248 replies to this topic

[Uba]

[redacted]

I am a member of the "Vocal Minority" that has the majority of votes in this thread

• Very poor Community Management practices that have gone on to prohibit criticisms, yet allow personal attacks & doxxing of personal information. Constant "leave us your feedback", with constructive feedback abruptly deleted without cause or reason.
  
• Unnecessary systems developed while little is done to provide weapon balance.
  
• Lack of needed systems roughly 20 days from launch (A TUTORIAL FOR THE GAME / iterative playtesting / robust UI).
  
• Promoting of a harmful group of players who demand others not play so as to allow their IGP funded streams go smoothly.
  
• Lack of Role Warfare to provide any strategy.
  
• Seeming lack of long-term vision for how the game should play.
  
• Lack of concrete PVP plans.
  
• Terrible grammar, fluidity & focus in posts by devs.
  
• Lack of consistent updates by development team.
  
• C-Bill changes that do not help new players as stated, and little done to correct it.
  
• Conquest point capturing speed changes.
  
• Lack of Community Warfare or any mention of it being developed other than "soon."

This is just the basic stuff that has been written off time and time again so little to comment on really. PGI has failed on so many various levels its not worth any of the money that has been spent thus far. An admitted bunch of amateurs are what have allowed a once promising game to devolve due to a lack of any development focus, and effort to ensure the players keep playing.

Edited by miSs, 28 August 2013 - 10:37 AM.
off topic

[FlipOver]

I voted upset and thanks to von Pilsner here's why:

von Pilsner, on 27 August 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

The saga so far...



















They said it so many times and so strongly that I had no reason to doubt them, now I have no reason to trust them...



So the 'gate' is not launch, what is the 'gate' of which you speak?

Why split queues (other than because you said you would)?

For the 3x monitor guys...


and the rest...


Now if only they could admit that looking over and around terrain is an advantage...



So some advantage is fine? Way to balance your game, if the queues were split it would make no difference if 3pv gets an advantage.



With all the new players that 3pv generated and the great retention (wow a little over 1 week since the change and you can already tell they are not going to quit) can we please have the separate 1pv queue back? Please?

Edited by flipover, 28 August 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[Wafflecopper]

Unhappy. Due mainly to ghost heat and the stale, sniper-dominated meta where 2ppc+1gauss is the optimal build, mechs are sniped to death in 2-3 volleys, and brawling, which for many is a much more enjoyable style of play than peek-sniping over ridges, is suboptimal.

The lack of CW, horrible UI and lack of interesting game modes are sore spots too, but those are all things that PGI have at least acknowledged and will hopefully remedy in time. However, it's harder to have faith they'll be done well, or any time soon with poorly thought-out systems like ghost heat being implemented.

Ghost heat is an unnessecarily complicated and unwieldy system and what's more isn't documented anywhere a new player would see it. Even if it was clearly explained through the mechlab UI, it still adds an unneeded layer of complexity. The devs should take heed of the old KISS saying - "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Simple tweaks to weapon stats such as reload time, projectile speed and heat are all that is needed to balance weapons, and can be easily communicated to and quickly grasped by new players without forcing them to consult arcane graphs. You don't even need to invalidate canon tabletop builds by tweaking slots or tonnage (though that would work too) if you just balance through tweaking the variables above.

In spite of ghost heat, PPCs continue their reign as the weapon of choice for competitive play as they have done for months. Simple tweaks such as a slower reload time would lower their DPS but still keep tham viable as a sniping weapon, getting pinpoint damage at long range in exchange for lower DPS. Boosting armour and structure would be another simple tweak which would help brawlers survive the initial sniper volleys and close to their optimal range.

Typing this, I just noticed the background to the forums is a picture of a group of mechs duking it out in a close-range brawl. It's sad how infrequent fights like that are in MWO nowdays and especially frustrating knowing that with some simple tweaks MWO could go back to being the fun game it was.

TLDR: Scrap ghost heat, buff mech health, nerf PPCs.

Edited by Wafflecopper, 28 August 2013 - 01:48 AM.

[Paingod]

My name is Paingod. I joined up the instant I heard this game existed, even before Alpha.

And I quite frankly don't give a frak about the game currently. Now, the drama emerging due to pants-on-head-*idiocy syndrome amongst the PR, that I do find entertaining.

Last thing I did was donate to the Sarah Mech charity (screw cancer) and get a refund for Project Phoenix (screw pre-orders*)

*Yes, I pre-ordered a year back. That was when I had faith. Faith I no longer hold. So long and thanks for all the lies.


EDIT- Huh, appears the filter doesn't like my 'Straya-ness... Also, whatever software this is, it's bloated as all hell. I'd suggest looking into that, but between fixing Ghost Heat and adding queues and finally putting in UI 2.0 and adding replay functionality and modifying 'Mech sizes to where it makes sense and figuring out what the hell is wrong with the HSR and...

[Pfifel]

Wafflecopper, on 28 August 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Unhappy. Due mainly to ghost heat and the stale, sniper-dominated meta where 2ppc+1gauss is the optimal build, mechs are sniped to death in 2-3 volleys, and brawling, which for many is a much more enjoyable style of play than peek-sniping over ridges, is suboptimal.

The lack of CW, horrible UI and lack of interesting game modes are sore spots too, but those are all things that PGI have at least acknowledged and will hopefully remedy in time. However, it's harder to have faith they'll be done well, or any time soon with poorly thought-out systems like ghost heat being implemented.

Ghost heat is an unnessecarily complicated and unwieldy system and what's more isn't documented anywhere a new player would see it. Even if it was clearly explained through the mechlab UI, it still adds an unneeded layer of complexity. The devs should take heed of the old KISS saying - "Keep It Simple, Stupid." Simple tweaks to weapon stats such as reload time, projectile speed and heat are all that is needed to balance weapons, and can be easily communicated to and quickly grasped by new players without forcing them to consult arcane graphs. You don't even need to invalidate canon tabletop builds by tweaking slots or tonnage (though that would work too) if you just balance through tweaking the variables above.

In spite of ghost heat, PPCs continue their reign as the weapon of choice for competitive play as they have done for months. Simple tweaks such as a slower reload time would lower their DPS but still keep tham viable as a sniping weapon, getting pinpoint damage at long range in exchange for lower DPS. Boosting armour and structure would be another simple tweak which would help brawlers survive the initial sniper volleys and close to their optimal range.

Typing this, I just noticed the background to the forums is a picture of a group of mechs duking it out in a close-range brawl. It's sad how infrequent fights like that are in MWO nowdays and especially frustrating knowing that with some simple tweaks MWO could go back to being the fun game it was.

TLDR: Scrap ghost heat, buff mech health, nerf PPCs.

From what I'm reading, one of the bigger problems is PPC/Gauss loadouts. I rarely see more than 1/2 mech with such a loadout in a game. Where do you get such matches? The amount of people complaining over them is ridiculous, considering I've never had any problems with that. You mention competitive play. AFAIK there isn't a really large competitive scene as far as MWO is concerned or am I wrong? The troublesome loadouts & lack of brawling might happen in these competitive matches but me playing with randoms has always been fun, filled with brawlers, and with varied builds.

It seems kinda funny that so many people complain about PPC/Gauss and the ghost heat mechanics when I've never had any trouble with them. Is my MM bracket too low? I would call myself an average player which means that most people should be in my bracket. Never seen someone ingame complain either. Sometimes I wonder if we're talking about different games. The forums make the game seem like a hellhole, while the game itself is fun to play.

I do agree with you about the technical problems and I hope they get fixed by launch.

TL;DR: I am happy and I do not know where people find the troublesome PPC/Gauss builds. I guess im just that lucky =)

[Lyrik]

I'm happy because MWO is a fun game. With a lot of flaws, problems, F2P **** etc .

I can modify my mechs.
I can play with mechs.
A match is 8minutes in average and 15min on maximum. Better than smite xD
The players in my timezone are mostly polite, helpfull and sometimes even fun in chat :-)
I never regretted my founders package. Well except that I don't like LRM's ony my catapult :-P
I'm playing it since closed beta :-)
I don't expect more from MWO.

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

U P S E T


Reasons:
Ghost heat
No CW
Upcoming gauss charge
Weapon balancing
Mech scaling
3pv
Match maker
Lack of communication from devs
No adddd game modes since conquest
LIES

[DemonRaziel]

Not happy
Reasons:
1. PGI treats players like idiots (lies - blatant, easily seen trough)
2. PGI treats community like worthless dirt (vocal minority on an island; denial of provided feedback; no real attempt at gathering feedback from the "beta testers")
3. weapon balancing in general - ghost heat (poorly explained conovoluted overkill introduced as an attempt at weapon balance that came too late, after months of stagnating gameplay and metagame and did not even solve what it was supposed to solve), ghost delay (yet another convoluted new mechanic that will not solve what it is supposed to), refusal to adjust variables regularly for testing purposes (cooldown, range, heat, damage...)
4. dreadful new player experience (that even affects vets due to MM whims) and player retention
5. Lack of key featurs (UI2.0, CW)

[Takony]

Not happy
Reasons:

No.1, OP left it out: CBILL NERF.

No CW
Upcoming gauss charge
Weapon balancing
Mech scaling
3pv
Match maker
No added game modes since conquest
LIES

[Aym]

I'm a little upset. There are definitely still balance, gameplay, and stability issues that need to be addressed and sometimes I feel the people in charge of these things don't get the bigger picture and are too stubborn to use player feedback in a timely manner.
I'm a little upset because I paid a fair amount of money, and got a great game that was "in development." That didn't bother me, what bothered me was that frequently the course of the development was different from what had been previously laid out and by and large I'd say the game is the least fun it has ever been for me (excepting of course the various lurm-pocalypse events).
So, yeah, I'm a little upset, I'm not demanding a refund, and I'm hoping they change course on the C-bill earnings, gameplay pacing, weapon balance, and introduce an awesome tutorial. However, until these things happen I can't recommend this game or spend any money on it, even though during early Open Beta I introduced a half dozen friends to the game that loved it. None are still playing. Think about that, a year ago people I introduced to the game spent money on MC, and aren't playing now. They didn't bother to come to the forums to complain about the changes that drove them away, they went away silently... The silent majority perhaps?

[Devorum]

Very upset. We've been lied to and jerked around for months. Neither Paul, nor Russ care about the community, they just pretend to when they want to sell us a new pre-order package. I can't even imaghine how upset I would be if I were a Founder, having funded this game at its earliest stage under the belief that I would have any inkling of say in the direction of the game.

Ghost Heat: The Magnum Opus and 3PV are just icing on the **** cake we're being fed.

This can't be posted often enough:

http://postimg.org/image/4kn7587rz/

[Marj]

Disgusted.
Reasons:
Design pillars made from cards, collapsed under a light breeze (LIES)
No 1PV only
No lobbies
No way to practice with my unit in a controlled environment
No private matches
Very poor community engagement
PGI ignores their most active beta testers
Ghost heat
Nonsensical design decisions
Poor mech scaling
Lack of modes
Lack of collisions
Lack of CW
Poor hit detection
Game release to soon
No tutorial
Poor new player experience


I think that covers the major issues. My biggest gripe is 3PV, which has ruined competition IMO and is the reason I stopped playing.

Devorum, on 28 August 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

This can't be posted often enough:

http://postimg.org/image/4kn7587rz/

I agree.

Edited by Marj, 28 August 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[DarkUranium]

I am upset. Very upset.

Let me give you a bit of background, first.

I was very excited when I found out about MWO. Really, the only reason I didn't buy Founders was that I had my doubts that it's going to be what has been promised. I was hoping I'd be wrong, of course --- unfortunately, however, I was correct. More correct than I had feared I'd be. Oh boy did I want this to be a good MW game...

Just 2 days ago, I came back to the game after a bit of a hiatus (certain RL issues came into the way), intending to buy some MC, to possibly spend on a Hero Mech (and if not, then perhaps some colors for the paintjobs or more mech bays).
First, I went to play a couple of battles, of course. I was greeted by the mech startup sequence, which I did find to be really neat -- although it adds nothing to the actual battles, I did always think it would be a nice thing to have. It increases immersion by adding a bit of flavoring to the game.

Then it switched to third-person view. That meant that I had to look in the menus to find the 'F4' key to switch back. I didn't even know about the default option until I asked someone how can I disable it permanently, and they pointed me to the option in configuration (which I've failed to spot, despite looking). Remember, a new player might not even know that they can play first-person.

It took me a few more battles to realize that something is wrong with my aim, and thus disable arm lock. In my opinion, arm lock doesn't help new players (or anyone, for that matter) at all, it just reduces their performance, adding yet another handicap when they're facing more advanced players.

And regarding 3rd person ... now, I won't go into this too deeply, as it's already been discussed to death, but suffice to say -- I died a little on the inside. I will add this, however: the 3rd person won't help new players at all [if you're still going with this excuse, PGI], because:

• They can't see legs anyways, meaning there's less indication of leg position than ever -- remember, in 1st person, at least you have the leg rotation displayed on the map.
  
• If you try to make people learn the game using 3rd person, they will learn the game using 3rd person. They won't be able to play 1st person -- at least by your own reasoning [talking to you, PGI] that people have trouble with 1st person. Remember, learning how to fly an airplane won't help you fly a helicopter.

... nevermind the fact that you [PGI] lied.


As stated, I am upset. Upset to the point that I've uninstalled the game at this point. Truth is, I simply cannot trust PGI to do anything sane at this point, so I'll just take a 6 months break (or so -- probably more, though, if I ever return), and see if anything improves by then.

Here are only some of the reasons that I can think off the top of my head (there's more), in no particular order:

• You lied
  
• You're actively trying to hide your mistakes by reorganizing the forums, etc... -- which, in and of itself, is a mistake. Remember, it's (supposedly) a beta, which means you should be trying to get feedback, not trying to suppress it.
  
• The game was released to open beta way too early (granted, this doesn't affect me, personally -- but it does matter as far as public opinion goes)
  
• Ghost heat
  
• You lied
  
• 3PV (< this is the final nail in the game's coffin, at least as far as I'm concerned; that, and the fact that your word means absolutely nothing)
  
• MC-only stuff is far overpriced (I'd definitely buy MC, because I want more mech bays, but I'm not sure if I'd buy hero mechs or camo colors, let alone patterns -- unless you dropped the price at least 50%)
  
• On that topic, camo MC unlocks should've been global, not per-mech (unless they changed that and I'm mistaken)
  
• You lied
  
• Coolant flush
  
• Lack of collisions (why?)
  
• Arm lock and similar things default on
  
• Absolutely abysmal new player experience
  
• Did I mention that you lied? On multiple occasions?

Let's hope that someone knocks some sense into PGI. Personally, the best solution would be to just drop 3PV. Yeah, that'd prooly **** some players off, but you might win back a lot of others that you've lost.

But I guess it's too late for that.

So long, and thanks for all the fish lies.

Edited by DarkUranium, 28 August 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[Siilk]

Unhappy. Reasons:

FupDup, on 26 August 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

I am upset. Reasons are (in no particular order):


*Bad weapon balancing where only a handful of weapons are "competitive"

*Utterly insane heat implementation (high capacity and low dissipation)

*Ghost heat's existence

*A mech's viability is decided by its hitboxes and model size more than what it can carry due to how PGI made the mechlab...

*Hit detection is wonky, even against heavy and assault mechs at times

*C-Bill nerf was completely unnecessary, especially because 12v12 matches already take longer by default (resulting in fewer matches/C-Bills per hour as it is)

*The fabled "design pillars" such as information + role warfare have been chiseled down to a stump or simply never constructed in the first place

*With things like CW and the Clans, it's clear that PGI has set their expectations a lot higher than their capabilities (or, to be a tinfoil hat, perhaps even lied since the beginning to entice founders)

*Severe lack of new game modes

*The top officials of PGI (such as Russ Bullock in particular) don't seem to have very solid reasoning behind the more recent decisions (also, Russ trolls too much for somebody who is supposed to be the CEO of Piranha Games)

*The dev's stubbornness to never back down from their self-invented ideas such as ghost heat, crit-seeking MGs, and hard-counter ECM as opposed to trying out some popular community ideas; basically it feels like their way or the high way

*The vast majority of MC items are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive (whales ahoy!)

*Nubcakes are routinely thrown in with hardened veterans, and without even going through a tutorial first

*I may add to this list later

[BFett]

Not Happy
Reasons:

Coolant Flush http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1559007
Ghost Heat
Siesmic Sencors
Third Person View
No First person only queue
Unbalanced Machine Gun
Unbalanced Flamer
Unbalanced LBX10
Unbalanced Pulse Lasers
Lack of Ballistic Arch (Especially for the Gauss Rifle)
Lack of UI 2.0
Lack of Community Warfare
Lack of Mech Collisions
Lack of destructible structures
Lack of Lobbies
Lack of Pilot Skill tree http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont
Limited Role Warfare http://mwomercs.com/...-3-role-warfare
Lack of Information Warfare counter measures http://mwomercs.com/...rmation-warfare
Disregard to requests made by the community through polls http://mwomercs.com/...phere-analysis/
Disregard to requests made by the #savemwo community
Lack of Beta Testing while in Beta

Edit:
Lack of game modes including Dropship Mode, Team Deathmatch, Mech Commander2 Game Play
Matchmaker putting beginners with the Vetrans

Edited by BFett, 28 August 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[SpoonFox]

Hi,

Communication is really what needs to be improved.
Possibility to report players, trolls and "raged" language (in and off game).


Kind Regards,
SpoonFox

[JeremyCrow]

When doing polls, you should choose an even number of options. Otherwise you will have lots of people picking the middle option.

[BFett]

JeremyCrow, on 28 August 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

When doing polls, you should choose an even number of options. Otherwise you will have lots of people picking the middle option.

Note how many people have chosen the middle option.

[Monky]

The truth of the matter is that there is no silent majority.

Not in the terms that PGI wants to frame it in at least.

PGI has access to data, but they don't have access to opinions. They can extrapolate a little with some accuracy, but beyond that they are painting pictures that are dissociated from reality.

Saying the 'silent majority' wants 3PV is a bald faced lie, because they have no way to tell what the silent majority wants. They can only go off of feedback and every source of feedback I have seen, from the initial 3PV polls when they first floated the idea to current forums and alternate forums like reddit etc are overwhelmingly against this, if not for the simple and very legitimate reason that they are changing core design features with no viable presented reason.

If the forums were overwhelmed by people asking for 3PV, or you constantly heard 'is there any way I can look at my mech' in game, or anything similar to this to show there was an interest in 3PV anywhere, by anyone, this could be a justifiable thing. The simple and plain truth is not many people are looking for it, and you can tell that by going into a match and seeing how many people use it. Coming to and posting on the forums is not a behavior unique to people who don't want 3PV.

All of this is fairly irrelevant in regards to 3PV's impact on the game - 3PV isn't the real issue (even though all evidence shows that it is really only useful for exploiting and pretty terrible for helping new players - AKA it was pointless and is a bad idea). The real issue is that people who paid money to get a game off the ground have effectively been lied to by the developers, with no good reason, and now the devs are courting another market without addressing the concerns of the community they've already garnered by putting in a game mode for them to keep them around/paying (1pv only queue). Of course they can't do that, because the 3PV queue would instantly become a ghost town (see; no one uses 3PV except at high skill levels to exploit information that is now available), thus proving even more-so they were wrong and putting massive amounts of egg rightfully so onto their face.

To summarize - PGI is demonstrably wrong on so many fronts it's beyond embarrassing, and yet they are suffering from an inability to back off of obviously bad ideas. There is no justifiable argument for what they have done. This should be interpreted as incompetence, and adjusted for accordingly by consumers. Caveat Emptor - buyer beware.

[blinkin]

any poll like this on the forums is almost guaranteed to be biased because people come to the forums when they want to complain. people who are complaining are likely unhappy for some reason.

as of this moment there are 542 logged in members and 1414 guests. so even with respect to just the people viewing the forums those who actually make posts are a minority. i suspect that the group of people actually playing the game is larger than the 1414 people who are viewing the forums. when i play at the start of most matches i skim through both team rosters actively looking for names i recognize and at least where pugging is concerned it seems to be fairly rare to find even one other name i recognize from the forums on either team. so yes we are the noisy minority.

the 556 votes i am looking at is a very impressive turn out for these forums, but still far from proving that this group isn't in the minority.

Edited by blinkin, 28 August 2013 - 04:14 PM.