1105 replies to this topic

[HellJumper]

ok english is not my first language but i am good at understanding it well enough.. can the devs please point out where they have told about this

Quote

This new UI framework is the gate keeper for almost everything we are working on right now, including Community Warfare (more revealed a bit later in this update).

what did they reveled about it?? except saying it will be in Launch event.. seriously??? half a page of post and thats the 2 words you gave as an update on CW?? wow

[MCXL]

This is the only F2P game, no the only game period that I regret spending money on.

[Jacmac]

FactorlanP, on 27 August 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

I honestly don't think PGI understands the depth and seriousness of what they have done here.

Maybe they can come back from it, but I really don't think they know how. They certainly don't appear to be listening to any of the advice that has been given.

If anyone was around for the so called Combat Upgrade in Star Wars Galaxies, then you can see how PGI is channeling Sony Online Entertainment. Ekman could be Smedley's soul mate. They lost 20% of the players with the combat upgrade, then tried all kind of changes that progressively drove out different segments of the player population until finally Lucas Arts pulled the plug on the IP contract.

I'm not saying the PGI is heading for getting the IP taken away or anything like that, but there are many strange parallels between the two companies ways of denying reality and destroying the 'contract' with the community. Basically the trust has been lost and even if they revert their stance and make 1PV queues available, can anyone here say that they would suddenly trust PGI to keep a promise after what they have done? They are swinging a wrecking ball and don't seem to realize it.

[HellJumper]

Quote

with a good bump in new player retention!

sorry to say this but should we (old time MWO players) should take this as a "thank you now go away we dont need you anymore" from this??

you straight forward pointed out that you are only bothered about new players (cause they dont know about the game much at this point) and the old players can go and play something else... this is so ********...

[Silent]

This is neither here nor there, but I just wanna say it because I am reading a lot of posts mentioning it:

I don't think it's really fair to try and get a refund for Founders from PGI. They earned my $120 back during the Founders sale because once upon a time they communicated to the community effectively and it was apparent they had a really fun game on their hands with a lot of potential. Project Phoenix refunds? Acceptable. Recent MC purchases? Acceptable. However, I think going that far back in time to spite them is unacceptable because you know as well as I do that the game was a blast to play not even a year ago (for most people). I know emotions are high and it's your money, but I would reconsider.

I dunno, just my opinion.

Edited by Silent, 27 August 2013 - 09:38 PM.

[repete]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 27 August 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

I just don't understand why people are so negative....

Well...If you've read these threads (The 22 current pages of this one, and the nearly 300 pages of the non-apology apology feedback thread, and the 95'ish pages of 3PV feedback thread) and you don't understand, then you will never understand. Have you read them? Have you tried to understand why people are so upset?

[Mike Getsome]

Where the frak is DX11?

[Archon Adam Steiner]

FactorlanP, on 27 August 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

I honestly don't think PGI understands the depth and seriousness of what they have done here.

... and I (and others) honestly think that some of the community is a little odd for thinking that design parameters don't change - especially in a Beta. PGI changed their mind and wanted to test a feature, and some very militant individuals decide to launch a crusade as if such a thing has never happened before. In MMO's, developers state one thing, then change their mind and do another frequently. All. The. Time. This is not new, uncommon, or weird.

Did PGI fail in their communication? Yes. Extremely so. It takes an extreme cynic to take that to the point of calling them liars, betrayers, or some other derivative of such. If I was one who was so cynical about the developer and the game, I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time blasting them repeatedly on their message boards - there's nothing constructive in that.

Edited by Arrachtas, 27 August 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[Appogee]

@Russ,

From your update I can see that you are thinking much more carefully and strategically about community relations. You're shaing data to support some of your assertions, you are being more wary about over-committing and under-delivering, while still explaining the timeframe of key feature deliver. This is all very heartening.

In the spirit of helpfulness, I'd like to pick up on a few assertions which caused me some ongoing concern.

1] Your comment about ''vocal minorities and silent majorities'', in tandem with prior comments, suggests you are discounting heavily the feedback you receive in your own forums, in favor of statistics. This is very very dangerous. Forums can be the tip of an iceberg, representing opinions that are far more widespread. Further, if you analyse your biggest customers in terms of MC spend, I will wager that they are also some of your more vocal posters. While broadening the customer base, you want to keep your most important customers happy and spending. So don't be so quick to discount what you're hearing on the forums relative to your statistics.

2] The calculation on ''time take to purchase a Mech'' is a little disingenuous as it ignores the DHS, ES and often, upgraded engine, necessary to make a Mech able to compete. There's an extra 2M CBills minimum on top of every purchase price, sometimes up to as high as an additional 7M CBills. That adds a lot fo the grind for a new Mech.

3] It's not possible for you to be seeing an increase in new player ''retention'' so soon after 3PV was released. While it's interesting that many new players apparently tried the game after 3PV, surely retention must be measured in months or years, not days and weeks? So, for me at least, it's too early to tell whether this generally hated feature for your existing customers is a necessary evil.

4] Doesn't exiting a match early to start a new one cost you some CBills or XP? Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Finally, thank you for the update. Solid information is always appreciated.

Edited by Appogee, 27 August 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[Silent]

A feature that no one uses. PGI are truly masters at game design.

[LyskTrevise]

Guys, sorry to break this to you:

I'm in command of nearly 50 MechWarriors as an officer of the clan I am in: Phoenix Dominion. And none of us are happy about 3PV. There is a very clear sense of despair every time we meet for practice. None of us want to play the game, people are showing up as part of some weird formality.

If you think this is just a "vocal minority" you're insane. Thanks for my Project Phoenix refund, by the way. I wont be giving you any money ever again. Regardless of any changes you make to the game that I like. You've broken my trust as a consumer, and I wont fall for the same trick twice. Just as the old saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[GrandLocomon]

Silent, on 27 August 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

A feature that no one uses. PGI are truly masters at game design.

All the newbs will use 3pv because it is default and they don't know they can change it, so PGI will claim its the most popular view. Also this is the SEPTEMBER CREATIVE UPDATE?!?! (1) This just told us about stuff that happened in august (2) nothing creative either (3) isn't an update because it didn't tell us anything new, or important and new anyway. Mods should rename this thread THE AUGUST SUMMARY / REHASH.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

repete, on 27 August 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Well...If you've read these threads (The 22 current pages of this one, and the nearly 300 pages of the non-apology apology feedback thread, and the 95'ish pages of 3PV feedback thread) and you don't understand, then you will never understand. Have you read them? Have you tried to understand why people are so upset?

As you so aptly put it, reading is necessary, please read the rest of my post and you will understand the meaning of my lack of understanding and the fact that I understand that some aspects of the community's frustration.

[Chronojam]

LyskTrevise, on 27 August 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Guys, sorry to break this to you:

I'm in command of nearly 50 MechWarriors as an officer of the clan I am in: Phoenix Dominion. And none of us are happy about 3PV. There is a very clear sense of despair every time we meet for practice. None of us want to play the game, people are showing up as part of some weird formality.

If you think this is just a "vocal minority" you're insane. Thanks for my Project Phoenix refund, by the way. I wont be giving you any money ever again. Regardless of any changes you make to the game that I like. You've broken my trust as a consumer, and I wont fall for the same trick twice. Just as the old saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I'm a notorious goodposter which I guess makes me an important person in a group of 1,500 mechwarriors and maybe 10 still bother to log in now and then to play, because it's just been getting worse and worse.

[Wired]

drunkblackstar, on 27 August 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

...and while "we barely see anyone using it consistently" there are tons of whining on the forums.

If you read their remarks on the 3pv design, you should know that it was designed not to give any advantages over 1pv. Thats why we barely see it and thats why it is success.

But that is the thing, If you pop over to the feedback forum you will see plenty of evidence including video evidence which shows otherwise. Get your head out of the sand.

[repete]

Mechwarrior0311, on 27 August 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

It really just seems like trolls with multiple accounts raging hard doesnt it. Anyway Im done watching you guys complain, Im going to go play MWO with the other 500k players that are enjoying it right now.

That's right. Heaps of people with multiple founders accounts just trolling here. *sheesh*.

[Draknos]

FactorlanP, on 27 August 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

You know, it is PGI's responsibility to maintain a good relationship with the community. Do you think if they had been more interactive and open that these crisis would have reached this level?

Sure, there are always some mopes who carry it too far and make threats of violence. They should be dealt with harshly.

But PGI has to be able to filter that kind of noise out, not use it as an excuse to ignore the rest of us who have a grievance.

Everyone who reads this so called Creative Director Update, should be able to see that there is something very very wrong with the PGI/Community relationship.

I honestly don't think PGI understands the depth and seriousness of what they have done here.

Maybe they can come back from it, but I really don't think they know how. They certainly don't appear to be listening to any of the advice that has been given.

I think it's just bad business 101

There are many things to judge a business by but I have narrowed it down to the 5 most important ones that relate to this business and community.

1. Be Trustful: FAILED - it's been proven more than once, the main ones being coolant and 3PV and once you lose trust it's extremely hard to win that trust back. RED FLAG!

2. Keep An Open Mind: NEUTRAL- There have been times when I have seen them have it and times when I haven't, so based on that I am gonna say neutral.

3. Meet Obligations: FAILED - Time and time again things keep getting pushed back farther and farther perfect example CW. RED FLAG!

4. Become Community Involved: FAILED - Since CB it has been a complete train wreck, distancing themselves each and every day since then and as of late invisible. RED FLAG!

5. Be Respectful: FAILED - Not going to name names, if you pay attention to the forums and twitter you should be aware of the lack of respect towards the community. Never tell any paying customer they are not part of your demographic, that's just really bad business! RED FLAG!

When you step back and look at it as a business, would you want to buy stock in a company (give them money) like this.

Not I thats for sure....

“Integrity is what we say, what we do, and what we say we do.”

If you think I was unfair in any of these points please correct me, I was always taught to look at the big picture and always try to avoid alienating anyone or thing if humanly possible.

Edited by Draknos, 27 August 2013 - 10:03 PM.

[ROJ]

First of all, I look forward to see what you got for us during the launch event. I assume you have been hiding a lot of things for us and will be impressing us within the next few days with updates, patches and the complete product during launch.

Though the uncertain, indecisive and grey aspects of your communication does not help make things better. There are certain matters that will need a black or white answer or action. We want answers backed by evidence and reason more often.

Needless to say claiming that a vocal minority does not represent a silent majority somehow implies that you can just ignore and walk over what people are protesting about on this community. Instead looking at the reasoning behind their complaints and responding accordingly. This is another communication mistake on your side.
This not a matter of how many or who is saying what.. It's a matter of fact that some people whether a minority or not are protesting about the fact that this game is looking like its taking the direction of slowly getting diverted from its original MechWarrior roots; for the sake of appealing to a new fresh crowd. That's the case for 3PV which you claim is a great success despite the fact that since its implementation I dont see anybody using it, except for scouts who are exploiting it. Provide us with evidence of so because:

3PV is a red flag for many MechWarrior veterans and well established communities for a valid reason. They might not be a majority of the player base but they are the people that should be often listened to.. 3PV has been a debatable issue for many ever since MW4 times..

The reason some people did invest in this game is because they barely can find a genre or title out there that is not dumbed down enough or redesigned to appeal to an as board as possible of an audience.. I hope that your organization and bean counters are aware that this should not be the case for MechWarrior.

[repete]

Sean von Steinike, on 27 August 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Seems to that's exactly what they are saying. Remarkable though how they can immediately tell that this 3rd person rubbish has boosted retention in their target demographic, yet it seems to take weeks and weeks to determine if a weapon need a tiny adjustment.

Damn it. Why am I outta likes.

*pssst*. Here's a clue. The "Success with the target demo/retention"-thing is BS

[Wired]

Lance425, on 27 August 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

You hear the same people say the same things and you think everyone thinks the same things as you.

It's mostly pathetic. If you are all this angry over Mechwarrior, what do you do when no one is looking? Kick your dogs? Run scams on the elderly? Cheat on your taxes?

Well everyone does the last and I don't think any of you are actually horrible people, but you all need to take a step back and get some perspective.

When you step back and get some perspective, you see that a lot of people invested themselves into a game which was not going to have 3pv and was going to have MANY features which are currently not in the game nor will never be. Not only that, but after the initial 3pv outrage we were promised that not only would they not implement 3pv if they could not do it without providing advantages to whoever was using it(Failure, check patch feedback forums), they would also provide an option to only play against people who were not using it. Failure.

Perhaps the people with a lack of perspective on this are people like you.