1105 replies to this topic

[P4riah1]

This post is a slap in the face. I am truly insulted and disgusted.

Of course you're still in denial about 3PV, but that honestly doesn't surprise me anymore. I've long since given up trying to get you to see reason on that. I'm not reiterating why anymore, it would be a massive waste of my time.

Something you need to realize: whatever metrics or player data you're using, it is LYING to you. It tells you that everything is fine. What it doesn't tell you is that the fundamental nature of your game has changed. It isn't the game I played a month ago. It has changed completely, and not for the better.

And as for your new changes about community communication, I am truly insulted. We are your beta testers. We want this game to succeed, and when we see problems, we point them out. Many (including myself I'm sad to say) have been a little to forceful in our statements, and I regret that and apologize. But you have reacted in the worst, most childish possible way. Suddenly, we are no longer beta testers and a devoted core community. We are suddenly a 'vocal minority' that is opposed by an ephemeral 'silent majority' that is supported by 'data' that we will never see, and might not even exist. This is the kind of marginalization used by political groups to undermine their opposition. And now that PGI has safely marginalized us, they will now ignore us entirely in favor of whatever fantasy they dream up, supported by no-doubt cherry-picked, narrow data.

And your response to your own communication failures is to keep everything closer to the chest? You are truly clueless. The only reason they're doing this is to try to avoid any more PR disasters because they are suddenly incapable of listening to the members of the playerbase who desire to give feedback. They know that the overwhelming majority of players who give feedback disagree with them, so they are just removing that option from the table to protect their own image. Truly pathetic. The assumption that every player who DOESN'T post (the 'silent majority'), agrees with them is just lazy thinking. Significant portions of that 'silent majority' will simply leave the game when things go bad, rather than post feedback, and suddenly PGI might realize that that group isn't so monolithically in their favor.

Goodbye, PGI. I truly hope you reap the full consequences of your blindness, arrogance, and mistakes.

Edited by P4riah1, 28 August 2013 - 05:55 AM.

[Magna Canus]

I don't usually post much in these forums, especially when I come across a post chain like this, e.g. people constantly complaining about this or that or calling everybody an *****, a liar, etc.

If you are really that concerned about controlling how the game is implemented get together and found a limited partnership holding company and buy the license for MWO. Then you can all take votes and get things set up the way you want it. Make sure your company has enough funds to cover both buying the license and funding both the people developing/managing the game as well as all of the associated location/server costs. THAT is the price you need to pay to be able to realistically say that the developers (now your employees) MUST listen to you.

Until then your fan status, even your founder packs, only means that what you want or say will be taken under advice. The developers still have to get the go from those people that employ them. Yes, that might bruise some peoples egos to realize that they are not the center of the universe, but that is life.

Like a few people have noted it has been a very long time since anything from Mechwarrior has been available for PC so I am thankful that PGI is giving it a go and trying to resurrect the game I last enjoyed with MW4. It is not the same, yes I might want some things to be different, etc. but in general I still enjoy the game.

If you are so worked up about how the game is and feel there is no hope then go. Please, leave. I would love to read some constructive posts on the forum that deal with the game only, without having to scroll over tons of gripes and complaints. The forum needs a nice "gripe/complaint/fame/etc." tag so I can filter this stuff out. If I want to hear somebody nag I will go visit my mother-in-law.

If you feel justified, then maybe you are. Are you changing much with endless streams of complaints? Obviously not. Is that fair? Probably not. Was life ever fair? Nope, not ever.

I for one enjoy playing the game. I don’t mind "grinding" for C-bills and xp because I enjoy the time I spend doing this playing the game. If I want something I can make a suggestion, but since I don’t own the license it is only that, a suggestion. I don’t spend my time trying to write the guys from Monopoly to change the rules because I like Broadway somewhere else or want more money when I walk over go because it does not matter how many copies of monopoly I have bought.

Also, for those I read that keep writing that this bit of programming is sooo easy, this kind of management is sooo easy, etc. If it is so easy then you can go apply for a job and be hired in a jiffy. Problem solved, right?

The silent minority/majority/whatever usually does not post a view on whatever topics are being bashed today because they just don’t feel like getting flamed by the vocal minority/majority/whatever for saying anything different. Why? Because many people posting in these forums do not have the ability to remain civil in their posts and I would not put it past a few here to carry this over onto the battlefield or even further. Is any of that really mature? No, not really.

Relax, it is only a game, no matter what you hopes are it is still just a game. Nobody’s lives depend on this game being what you dream it will be and to be honest, there is no other alternative right now. If you want an alternative that bad then get together and make one. Any less effort mineralizes your entitlement.

[Xeno Phalcon]

If you think the cbill nerf is bad when your a winner, try grinding when your losing (For those new, thats not even enough cbills to buy a single medium laser.)

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 28 August 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[N0MAD]

drunkblackstar, on 27 August 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

In the tier I play, red signal drone over your head means you will receive sniper shot in a second.

Ok so you play in a tier where someone is peaking over the hill in TPV, can see your squad of snipers and then proceeds to go over the hill...so as a new player, how are you finding those trial mechs?

[Sasha Volkova]

Quax1102, on 28 August 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Need some follow up .. why then is the amount of C-Bills awarded for a single assist higher than for a single kill? If you don't take the "component destruction" in consideration, then - given by the way it's shown in the "end-of-battle"-screen - an assist earns higher rewards than a kill.

Please for all that is holy... dont just jump into a discussion...
Go back and find the beginning before asking for more information or trying to make an intro when the discussion has already been finished.

IF (and this is a big "if") you have something to add when you have read it all, then by all means continue posting, but quote everything and not just the part you jumped in on.
Its not very polite and does not make me want to give you an answer (which I am guessing you actually want)

Just a heads up since I will not be bothered answering a post made as a quote on something in the middle of a longer discussion.

Most likely the information you want can be found by backtracking the conversation in question.

[TKSax]

I get what some people are saying on the Forums about the how things will change as the game is developed, I think what disappoints the most is how they are handling the change. You want to make a change to the game design pillars or change something you said you would do, you put out a statement about the change before you release it, not a day after it has been patched in the game. I know for me that would make a big difference for me and probably some others, I think that is what a lot of people would like to see when they talk about communication. Sure it will not shut everyone up, but you will never please everyone. I am not usually a very vocal person about how a game is developed, but there just seems that there has been so much miss-management of situations in MWO that it really concerns me about the future of the game.

[codynyc]

Blue Footed Booby, on 28 August 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

I've been on xbox live since 2004.

Thank you for proving my point about people on xbox live being more annoying then the ordinary gamer. By no means was this and console vs pc post this was about there are more KIDS on xboxlive that spew hate.

[Zeus X]

So now we are well over 300+ pages between this one and the so called apology and we have "yet" to have any kind of real communication from PGI?

Color me surprised that the lying keeps on going.

[Phashe]

Talrich, on 28 August 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Garth made a post on page 9. Whether he's a Dev or not, he does represent PGI.

Lets see... it is now 6:39am on the west coast. How many posts since 7pm PST? I feel for the PGI guys when they get to work tod ay

[jozkhan]

Taking a step back for a minute and looking at the bigger picture, these updates are so very psychologically revealing aren't they?

Going back and reading previous updates and taken as a whole they seem to be the product of a compulsive liar.

Why on earth have you rejected using modern marketing and PR techniques in favour of world war 2 propaganda methods? It's been said before but it is positively Orwellian.

This wave will collapse soon because it is based upon deception, greed and lies. Reality will intervene. Nobody believes what you are saying anymore, and that applies not only to your customers but also to your business partners and investors.

The circle is almost complete and you will have snatched total failure out of the jaws of success.

What you say and what you just don't match up.

There is something terribly terribly wrong with the management of MWO.

The only equivalent to making such consistently bad decisions can be found in the realm of cartoon villains.

It's just such a shame it had to happen to this particular franchise.

[HammerSwarm]

Tennex, on 27 August 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

what i want to know is, how within a week they already have information on player retention and 3PV.

are their standards for retaining players only 1 week? (since thats only how long its been since 3PV has been implemented)

That's easy more people stayed less than a segment of a week. Say logged in once never again. They could claim 100% more retention if those people logged in twice. That's the metric they care about apparently. Not the people logging in 100's of times, the person logging in a second time.

PGI needs to go to business school, or just higher some business school interns to work for free in the management department. First it's 5 times more cost effective to retain existing clients than to find new ones. I think I learned that as a freshman in my first general business class.

[AdamBaines]

tulip, on 28 August 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

My problem isn't 3rd person having an advantage. My problem is 3rd person existing at all after your promises and existing without "hardcore" (good job attempting to marginalise players with terminology btw) which you later promised.

Im so board with this whole argument. Not you specifically tulip, but the whole argument from people on both sides. I understand how you feel as am not a fan of 3PV also, and many people here feel the same as you do. Im not a fan of how communication has gone as it seem you also have issue with. But I also work in software development and know that things change. Visions change. "Promises" (if you want to call them that) are revoked and broken, and sometimes for very good reasons. Sometimes not. You don't agree with them and I respect that. There are other people who are more understanding of PGI and what has transpired and I respect them.

Im just tired of going into the forums and its non-stop.

Person One: "PGI LIED!!!!"

Person Two: "No, THEY DID NOT!!"

PO: "YES THEY DID BECAUSE OF X, Y, and Z!!!"

PT: "NO THEY DID NOT BECAUSE OF A B and C!!!"

I mean really? Is this not boring? And a bit frustrating as well? Maybe not the first time, but for the 500th?

Cant we all just get along!!!! :-) (I know the answer to that, just wanted to say that line)

EDIT: corrected some spelling :-)

Edited by AdamBaines, 28 August 2013 - 06:13 AM.

[Boris Javorina]

I must have missed something! Where is the update? What shall we expect in the next patches? Where is the content?
You honestly can not expect everyone will celebrate 12vs12 and 3PV you claim to be the top hits of the last month.

So please: What is intended to be released on Sep3rd?
When is the next patch after Sep3rd? And what will be released there?

[3rdworld]

Another thing about the Cbill nerf.

You are an average player, and you use your cool shot 50% of the time.

76k + 36k / 2 = 56K

My new Victor cost ~15,000,000 cbills not including a XL350. So lets add that back in, so now that victor cost 20,700,000 cbills.

The average player that uses a CS 50% of the time is going to need to play:

396.64 games
3178.92 minutes
52.98 hours

[Skunk Wolf]

What in the sweet holy Christmas is wrong with people?

Threatening the families of the developers?

Round those gutless idiots up, stick em in the back of a Chinook with a knife, poncho, and three matches. Dump 'em on Baffin Island. If they make it back, good. If they don't, good.

Once it's on the internet, it's never going away. I hope you get slammed into the boards for saying that kind of {Scrap}. Kudos to PGI for calling the cops.

Edited by Skunk Wolf, 28 August 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Johnny Z]

mirv sillyfish, on 28 August 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

I do understand that, as a game, mwo is in a fairly constant state of flux. Things will be constantly adjusted, tweaked, etc. For the most part I actually agree with the decisions made - or at least the idea behind them.
With 3PV, I agree with what their intentions seem to be (keep new players, get them used to mech controls), but forcing it on people like this has been the only decision I'm entirely against, for reasons others have covered quite well.
With that said, I don't see why there can't be some fairly simple middle ground. Players can currently use the camera drone (aka 3PV) to peek across the battlefield quite safely - so make the camera drone a little more visible, and vulnerable to enemy fire. Flash a warning that it's taken out to let new players know what happened, and hammer home on training grounds and tutorials for the new folk.
That's my attempt at constructive criticism anyway.

I agree with 90% so I wont repeat what you said. Except the part about 3pv, for me it is a game wrecker as it is currently done. I have done a few posts about this, but this is a new topic.

+1 for sim game.

[Too Much Love]

N0MAD, on 28 August 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Ok so you play in a tier where someone is peaking over the hill in TPV, can see your squad of snipers and then proceeds to go over the hill...so as a new player, how are you finding those trial mechs?

What a bad misinterpretation of my words... You have to be more inventive next time.

[Novakaine]

Can I have your Beta tag when ya go live to in my wall in my man-cave.

Edited by Novakaine, 28 August 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[Thuzel]

Really??

1. 3pv has been in play for just one week and has caused more negative feedback than anything else you've ever done with MWO. We've had multiple threads going past 100 pages and another going past 260 (lost count) of angry freaking posts, and you call that a "success". None of that adds up. At all.

2. That economy is God-awful. You expect my c-bill earnings to be around 1 million every 1.9 hours and that's acceptable? Even just a medium mech can take over 7 million to buy and equip which means I'm playing for 13.3 freaking hours just to get a new medium. That's not bad, it's a tragedy. I'm not grinding for 39.9 hours just to get 3 medium mechs so I can get my experience up. For your "typical" player, that's at least 10 days playing time, which might take more than a month to do. That's an insult, not an economy.

3. Paul and your responses on twitter were horrifyingly bad. Seriously, I'd expect high-school students to have better PR and communication skills. So one questionable apology and a sweep under the rug doesn't amount to much of anything and on top of that you send us this. I honestly think you are trying to drive away your own player base.

4. The behavior around launch has been abysmally bad. Multiple "decision level" people taking long vacations this close to launch is unheard of. But what was worse than that, you actually blamed those vacations for errors. To the public. In an official communication. Do you have any idea what that does to your image or how people perceive that? You might want to learn some professionalism before going too much further. You are supposed to be an organization that, at least partially, knows what its doing. If you're going to let people take long vacations within spitting distance of one of your most important milestones of all time, then you should probably plan around it.

-- Edit --
I was trying to avoid it, but I've requested a refund. PGI, if you want to know why just reference the above points. You've got a lot to learn.

Edited by Thuzel, 28 August 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[Mechteric]

3rdworld, on 28 August 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Another thing about the Cbill nerf.

You are an average player, and you use your cool shot 50% of the time.

76k + 36k / 2 = 56K

My new Victor cost ~15,000,000 cbills not including a XL350. So lets add that back in, so now that victor cost 20,700,000 cbills.

The average player that uses a CS 50% of the time is going to need to play:

396.64 games
3178.92 minutes
52.98 hours

Don't use coolshot, it is as they say "a trap".

I've never used it, and to be honest you don't really need to in day to day pugging when you're trying to save money up (in fact its just dumb to do so). One could make an argument for it in competitive games perhaps, but that still hasn't gotten me to use them.