904 replies to this topic

[modeemi]

Not having read all the 36 pages of responses I might have missed something, BUT IS EVEROBODY ELSE PLAYING WITH A 12 MAN CREW EXCEPT ME!? :/ Why is this getting so many yes votes?!?! Essentially if the above plan goes through everybody else will be forced to play with/against 3pv.

[Archon Adam Steiner]

Speaking as a hardcore MWO player who has done the competitive/organized 8v8 and 12v12 in leagues and tournaments ever since it was possible, I don't see the problem, here.

Beyond the "they lied to us" angle that so many push - which I see rather as a change of heart on an issue that was followed by a very bad lack of communication - the main argument against 3PV has been the 'competitive advantage' angle, chiefly pushed not by Joe Pick-up Player, but mostly by the groups run by or participated in by people like myself - people who have looked to organized drops ever since it could be done.

3PV won't go away; whether you are of the opinion that PGI was right or wrong to introduce it, whether you believe that they 'lied' or simply neglected/forgot to share a design change with the community in a timely fashion... doesn't matter any more. 3PV stays, but we get a say in how it stays. Rather than taking up issues that we are not going to see changed, we should look upon this as an opportunity to re-shape the implementation in a more desirable form. I understand anger and frustration - I don't like 3PV or how it came in either - but it is rare that any developer so very directly solicits its player base for feed-back on an item.

Competitive players should vote yes, if indeed their main concern (or one of their main concerns) was the 'competitive advantage' issue. To not do so would give the lie to the many arguments against 3PV that were predicated upon the advantage that it might provide.

Edited by Arrachtas, 28 August 2013 - 11:58 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

Guernica, on 28 August 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Not having read all the 36 pages of responses I might have missed something, BUT IS EVEROBODY ELSE PLAYING WITH A 12 MAN CREW EXCEPT ME!? :/ Why is this getting so many yes votes?!?! Essentially if the above plan goes through everybody else will be forced to play with/against 3pv.

It's a loaded question they have given us. It's like the whole, "Have you stopped abusing your children?" question. If you say yes, you are admitting you abuse your children. If you say no, you are saying that that you still abuse your children.

[StandingCow]

Guernica, on 28 August 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Not having read all the 36 pages of responses I might have missed something, BUT IS EVEROBODY ELSE PLAYING WITH A 12 MAN CREW EXCEPT ME!? :/ Why is this getting so many yes votes?!?! Essentially if the above plan goes through everybody else will be forced to play with/against 3pv.

Yea, they did this in a really sneaky way.... sure you can have 1PV only 12 mans, but that means you give up the possibility of separate queues for solo drops.... :/

[grayson marik]

Lame excuse for a compromise.
If you bring in all kind of other premade match options like 4v4 3v3, 6v6 etc... and all those to be selectable for 1stPV only or 3rd PV only or "mixed" ...THAT would bring you a yes vote from me.

Seems like you did not understand the complains.

We do not want to limit other peoples fun, as you did when you imposed 3rdPV on us.
If there are people who like 3rd, fine let em play so all the day in and day out, even in 12v12 matches.

The point is that your implementation just left no space for those, who want to PUG in 1st person only matches or even in 3rd person only matches... and all other personal tastes of gameplay....

You know what?

You could kill all this elo, queue, matchmaking grief with one single blow:

Implement a MSN gaming zone like lobby for your game, that provides selectable options for "droplimits, map and allowed views"

EVERYONE could play like he/she wants to play and you would have saved a LOT of development time that already went into a lot of lame mechanics you had to invent for those queues to work... and a lot of dev time you still have to invest, as the latest debacle shows.

Also well, let the PUG random everything queue exist for a fast game during lunch break, next to the lobby.

THAT would cater to all kind of audience you might have in mind. no matter if vocal minority, silent majoritiy or any other ghostish target audience....

Edited by grayson marik, 29 August 2013 - 12:03 AM.

[HarlekinEO]

I dont like 12 vs 12 and 3rd person neither. So I dont want 3rd person in any game of my desire (4vs4 or 8vs8)...

And I think the poll is invalid, because of missunderstanding! It doesnt shows off other options or relations to other game modes...

[csebal]

Guernica, on 28 August 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Not having read all the 36 pages of responses I might have missed something, BUT IS EVEROBODY ELSE PLAYING WITH A 12 MAN CREW EXCEPT ME!? :/ Why is this getting so many yes votes?!?! Essentially if the above plan goes through everybody else will be forced to play with/against 3pv.

Sadly, people are not familiar with the way loaded questions work. If everyone could recognize them, lots of politicians (and apparently some devs too) would probably be out of their jobs. The best vote for this poll is to not vote at all.

Read and learn - someone already linked this earlier btw:
http://en.wikipedia....Loaded_question

Edited by csebal, 29 August 2013 - 12:29 AM.

[Mighty Spike]

i would like to see that is chooseable for EVERY game mode! Like it was said to beginning! 1pv vs 1pv, 1pv vs 3pv, and 3pv vs 3pv !. Why is this SOOO Hard!!!! do what you said and all is good! Whats the matter? Yes or no, guys common...

Edited by Mighty Spike, 29 August 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[EvilCow]

My understanding is that PGI is unwilling in investing in infrastructure (money for servers) in order to support the HC queue so they have to use one of the existing queues: specifically the 12 men one.

I voted yes because it is a step in the right direction and an attempt to build a bridge, however, I still think it is not sufficient, I play 99% of times in the normal queue and the promise was that I would have never forced to play in games allowing 3PV.

Should this become just a way to prove a point using a biased poll then I'll simply return to my previous position: GG and bye. In the meanwhile I am abstaining to play, holding the wallet and waiting for facts.

PGI, we really want to like you, do the right thing.

[Bloody Moon]

Give us what you've promised PGI! No backpedaling on the Hardcore queue! Half measures are not enough!

[PlzDie]

HarlekinEO, on 28 August 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

I dont like 12 vs 12 and 3rd person neither. So I dont want 3rd person in any game of my desire (4vs4 or 8vs8)...

And I think the poll is invalid, because of missunderstanding! It doesnt shows off other options or relations to other game modes...

It is not suppose to be valid it is a sneaky little trick. I am with you on the 3PV, I just want what was promised.

My vote was also deleted, they almost caught me with this one, to the guys that posted the intention of the poll, thank you I am way to tired and wont have spotted it.

[stjobe]

HarlekinEO, on 28 August 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

And I think the poll is invalid, because of missunderstanding! It doesnt shows off other options or relations to other game modes...

While I generally go by the maxim "never attribute to malice what can equally well be explained by stupidity", this poll is designed to give the answer PGI wants, not to poll what the community wants.

This is malice, not stupidity.

I urge everyone to remove their votes unless they're fine with everything but 12v12 being mixed view.
That is:

• solo drop is mixed 3PV/1PV, you won't have a choice.
  
• four-man drop is mixed 3PV/1PV, you won't have a choice.
  
• eight-man drop is mixed 3PV/1PV, you won't have a choice.

If this is okay with you, by all means vote "yes". If it's not, please don't vote at all. A vote for "no" doesn't mean that any of those queues would be separated, it just means 12v12 won't either.

[Mighty Spike]

Ya,seems like a bad joke...

[Aethos]

what I find utterly fascinating and completely disrespectful is the gestapo style moderation where harmless constructive polls, threads, images get deleted as if they were never there.

keep doing that moderators. You are literally making it impossible for me ever want to play the game again. It's ok though right? There must be 3 new 15 yr olds lining up to play a game they know nothing about.

[Wolfways]

Well, my wife was holding out on buying the overlord package until seeing if there'd be separate queues. After seeing this poll she's so disgusted that as far as she's concerned she's out of the game for good.
Great PGI, you managed to drive her from the only fps she's ever shown any interest in

[Conn Man]

The option I want to see in this poll is not there. 1PV while playing solo. I've yet to play in a twelve man.

I remember many months ago a dev stated on the boards that most of the people complaining were also logging hundreds of missions per week, and if they really didn't like it they would stop playing. I thought to myself, "You know what, he's right." So I stopped playing for two months.

Another dev stated that they put more weight on posts made by people who don't post a lot. Well I don't post a lot and I'm very upset about spending money on something and having it taken away from me.

I did not vote in the poll, but I will be voting with my wallet. My Phoenix refund was processed yesterday, but I was informed that my recently activated premium time cannot be paused. I sincerely hope to come back, but it's not looking good.

[Marineballer]

Thank you very much for this!

[StandingCow]

Once this fiasco is done and over with... PGI please stop making us have to fight for everything, all that is going to happen is the community will get sick of it and worn out and leave over time. Sure, we might get project phoenix, and this new thing... but you should want to keep us as well as gain new players, not lose us and have to get new replacements... competition is coming (Star Citizen)... please try to earn our trust back and keep us here... AND there, not just leave.

[the pole]

I'd say more but I'd rather not be banned for "Abuse, Threats and Vulgarities."

Edited by the pole, 29 August 2013 - 12:31 AM.

[Wieland]

And noone reads the fineprint.