597 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

I take issue with one point in the article.

12v12 was something looked forward to, and implementation was successful IMO. (All the hit-reg problems were there before implementation too..) So I disagree with the article that the 12v12 queue was against player wishes.

However:
All the other points were pretty well nailed, if a bit over-dramatic.

[Deathlike]

Guys... people have valid opposing views. The difference between us and them is that they believe, perhaps blindly and/or to a fault that PGI is going "eventually" provide the product that they are claiming to sell... like CW, UI 2.0, and "success" on launch day.

The thing is not everyone has the same tolerance for incompetence, lying, and just outright disappointment. I think most of us has had some vision of epic awesomeness that the game could be but at the same time isn't realized yet. It is not in the best interests of the "vocal minority" to wish death to a game, but noted actions by PGI towards the community does get remembered when things aren't going well. I'm sure some have vocalized death to this game, but that's a minority... Holding onto the idea that PGI is going to execute on their promises has always been a "show me approach" and what they've shown us is disdain and contempt. Even the poll that was put up recently is a testament to that. Surely you can see there are deeper problems than the ones "we think" are most important.

RIght now, PGI is looking more like Bernie Madoff than Chris Roberts... and that's not the comparison what I'd want to use, but it's closer to a sad truth than most of us want to admit.

[Mister Blastman]

Most of us here are mad and happy to see the bad reviews not because we hate MWO--it is because we're so hurt seeing this happen while we want it to be a monster success.

[Deathlike]

Mister Blastman, on 31 August 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Most of us here are mad and happy to see the bad reviews not because we hate MWO--it is because we're so hurt seeing this happen while we want it to be a monster success.

Exactly that. Some of us hope that someday they will have an epiphany like the guys who make EVE... the game itself is not unsalvageable, but the longer this continues, there may not be a carcass to salvage.

Edited by Deathlike, 31 August 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[AlexEss]

This is such prime journalism... It almost makes me feel like a seasoned veteran..

Sadly with more and more newspapers finding their way to the great beyond, the quality (and by that extension demand) of journalism will go down with it.

To be honest i would not wipe the {Scrap} of my shoe with that as far as any kind of journalism goes. It is barley worthy of your daily rag. They had a good chance to make a balanced, objective and well researched bit of text. But instead they went the path of least resistance by pandering to Troglodyte crowd.

I wished that i could say that this.... what ever it is... hurt the site more then PGI but the sad fact is that most people would believe that the moon is pink and made of play-doh if enough sites on the web posts it. (unfortunately this goes for major newspapers too.)

[Nation Uprise]

This game has slowly become something completely opposite from what PGI sold people with the dev blogs, video interviews and game articles. This is harsh to say, but I would hope that this game dies already and maybe some of the community can try to convince the Living Legends guys to make a kickstarter, to license the rights for MechWarrior and build a proper MW game based on their awesome work from MWLL. You know, a proper game based on Battletech.

[Corvus Antaka]

DV McKenna, on 31 August 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Congratulations you have friends to play with.

I'll take your word on that, it's not like you factually prove you have no issues with it, while large amounts of people do. Hit detection in this game is terrible, increasing server load in matches was always a terrible idea.

12v12 wasn't always on the books, 8 v 8 was the projected staple, they did say way back when time began they would look into increasing the limit dependent on server performance.
Ghost heat in your opinion was necessary, to many others there were less secretive ways of doing it, and many had good ideas posted and ignored.
Ghost heat was a left field creation that did not fix the problem, infact it created others.

That says alot, because everything is far from viable. In a competitive must win scenario there are still only a small handful of weapons that are actually viable.

As to the rest of the dribble, you have every right to slot me into any mental place you so wish most people have you in the rabid white knight section who'll say the sky is brown if PGI asked him too.

PGI has the right to change direction, but then they should have sold people a vision in the first place that they didn't stick too.
The pitfalls of crowd funding.

As always Rosey thank you for your contribution even if it is out of line with " a few of us"

12v12 has been planned since E3. Google figures this out really quickly. That's over a year now at least.

otherwise, more worthless dribble, but thanks for sharing! Always nice to hear from the negative sad faces out there as they continue to moan and whine while the rest of us enjoy the game.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 31 August 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

12v12 has been planned since E3. Google figures this out really quickly. That's over a year now at least.

otherwise, more worthless dribble, but thanks for sharing! Always nice to hear from the negative sad faces out there as they continue to moan and whine while the rest of us enjoy the game.

So 12 months is not always, thanks for back tracking.

[Corvus Antaka]

DV McKenna, on 31 August 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

So 12 months is not always, thanks for back tracking.

No problem. I figured you wouldn't be able to use google

[Genewen]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 31 August 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

They also seemingly (and I noticed this well before the latest finger pointing) are the only developers I know of that takes vacations in the lead up to release.

Most devs I've known work 80 hour weeks in the last 6 months leading up to release. These guys seem to instead work a 30 hour week and take 2 weeks of vacation every month.

This is something very true and I was surprised to see that point not raised way more often in the past weeks. For every gaming studio I have ever heard of, the six months leading up to the "release" ("" because I do not think that term applies here) of a product were busy as hell with everyone working double-shifts. Certainly no key personnel there would think of going on vacation without anything short of a personal disaster like heavily ill family members happening. The attitude displayed by PGI in that regard is very telling. PGI's problem sadly is not only a communication problem. It goes way deeper.

However, this thread should be about the article.
I do think it is very well written and shows very well just how much went wrong in the past. And it does not even use all the ammunition it could use. There is no mention of the ECM problems, or the inadequate engine which cannot get any picture-in-picture like advanced zoom or a rear-view mirror to work viably, it does not mention the recent CBill nerf either and there is not a single word about the huge amount of bans/deletions/jettisoning even of constructive and polite users/threads/posts going on. If the author wanted to, he could've attacked PGI from a few angles more. In the light of that, I find it very questionable that some people claim the article to be biased and unfair.

[InRev]

People can white-knight as hard as they want, but if unattached, 3rd-party journalists are slagging PGI, that's a sign. The average F2P gamer isn't going to toss his lot in with a company that has built a reputation of being unreliable and possibly even incompetent. They'll read the articles, think to themselves "wow, that MWO game looks like it's screwed" and play World of Tanks. Considering how PGI has outright said that the casual F2P demographic is their target (meaning not you guys who are currently defending PGI, ironically) these articles should not be written off.

The fact that the majority of recent press about the actual game (ie, excluding charity work) has been overwhelmingly negative cannot be wished away by calling the critics "whiners". The journalists have no stake in this. They're writing what they see, and from the same perspective as PGI's target demographic. White-knighting may jusy make things worse by giving PGI carte blanche to stay their disastrous course.

[Kain]

The article is a good summary about how the community (read: mechwarrior fans) is reacting to the PGI / MW:O changes / "wrong choices" and bad communication.

And of course people will keep on playing this game, but it doesn't mean that it will become a great mechwarrior game where the mechwarrior fans have been waiting for...
Millions of people are also playing candy crush...nuff said...

The problem is that the MW:O community has become toxic, of course these forums maybe doesn't represent the whole playerbase, but when a company is able to enrage the same people who helped them starting this game, then they have done something incredibly wrong...

[FactorlanP]

I still believe that the negative articles are necessary to force PGI to follow through on promises.

Honestly, If I were Russ and Bryan, I would be on these forums 10-12 hours a day over this weekend. Talking to people. Letting people vent in a way that they feel like they are being heard.

Then I would spend all day Monday compiling my notes from those talks and figure out a way to solve as many problems as possible. Then on Tuesday, I would make a Command Chair post detailing every thing that I took away from listening over the weekend, and how PGI is going to put what was learned to work.

Then I would spend the next 10-12 hours talking with people again. Listening, taking notes.

I would do it in a humble and open way. I would take the heat that would be sure to come my way, and resist the urge to snark back.

If I were Russ, I would make one last Tweet, saying that it was my last tweet. Then I would delete twitter from every device that I own.

I would make Garth useful. Have him be a real presence here on the forums. Engage people. Give him some authority to talk about things in the pipeline in a general way.

I would instruct ALL of the dept heads to make WEEKLY Command Chair posts detailing what the department is working on. Something for the maps guys, the system guys, the balance guys, the art guys, etc.

I would tear down the wall of silence with a deluge of information and transparency.

If something is behind schedule, I would be sure to say so as soon as I learn of it.

If there is a balance change that needs to be made, I would explain the reasoning behind it in detail. Then I would listen to the feedback. I might still make the change, but I would always keep open the option to roll an unpopular change back if it doesn't accomplish the goal.

And lastly, I would USE THIS COMMUNITY AS BETA TESTERS WHILE I CAN. Send it live and let the community try to BREAK IT!

The continued use of the Cone of Silence is only compounding the PR problem.

/rant off

Edited by FactorlanP, 31 August 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

FactorlanP, on 31 August 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

I would make Garth useful. Have him be a real presence here on the forums. Engage people. Give him some authority to talk about things in the pipeline in a general way.

The only thing Garth is useful for is being thrown under the bus by Russ for their terrible communication.

Either Garth has been completely handcuffed by PGI/IGP (I suppose that's possible), or he's just terrible at his job (based on my time here this is more likely).

He's just like most of the PGI employees that post on the boards, most of what he says is condescending and not helpful.

He occasionally sprinkles in a "I'll send it up to the devs", but half the time the things he "sends up" are silly stupid things that are not core issues with the game.

[Cybermech]

There is some epic win in this thread.
Peoples opinions are always important and it is something that PGI promotes with in these forums.

However there are far too many people taking misinformed rants as facts and this article is one of them.
If you want "help" understanding a specific part over the last while, just PM me with a question and I will help you out.
That is for the new guys or the old returning people.
This forums has always been a place for misinformation and that is another fact.

People have the 100% right to be pissed off over things.
Ghost heat? - eh no its called staking penalties, it was not mysterious and was WELL discussed/cried for in this forums before the PPC fest.
12v12 was ALWAYS in the works using 8v8 as a starting point.
Coolant flush was not meant to be in game but from continued talks between PGI and the community they noticed it was microsofts over dominant version off it was a major problem (my opinion taken from time on ts back in CB)
The way it was released was the PART that was horrible, MC = much better module.
3PV got viewed as a priority and you can see why just as easy as you can see it having an advantage.
The release on the other hand is were something really wrong happened.
There was no need to rush it in, it could have easily put on the training grounds until after launch.

This "saveMWO" is quite annoying, it actually make my bubble boil.
Like i said there are real reasons why people are pissed off.
Even plenty of good mature players who have been doing nothing but contributing to this community.
This is the part that is getting to me.
So many of the players have been led into the "project" as a way to help save MWO.
Its a publicity stunt by those who like to play meta games like this.
If you know me from before please I beg you to leave that nonsense.
It cannot go anywhere but also it ensure the split between PGI and its community to continue.

Yes there are problems, yes there are issues, yes the marketing end of PGI/IGP have made some mistakes.
Communication is in need of some TLC which takes some time.
MOAR! changes is whats needed with a little less hard on for TT numbers.
Reduce overall DPS of the bigger weapons, reduce JJ fuel recharge, put up PPC's heat,
make bigger gap betwee assaults and heavies - mediums and lights in terms of agility and acceleration.
And the game would be fine.

None of what is in this post is game ending, its no dying, fear is what is driving most of this and too many people don't see it.

Edited by Cybermech, 31 August 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[Shredhead]

PGI, do you hear this? The bells are rung, the sirens wail. It is time for you to pull a 180° before you ram that game into the ground head first!
I feel like I am stuck in a time loop, waking up to have all the discussions back from when you pushed this game into open beta. Only this time it's worse!
I am actually lost for words. Between silent crying for the state of the game and open outrage at how you stand there like a four year old child with its hands over the ears yelling "I don't want to hear you!" I just don't know what to say any more.
Everything has been said and laid out by your own community time and time again, in manners calm and analysing, in posts full of rage, anger, disappointment or vitriol.

Do you even know who did your work all the time? Who advertised the game, took newbies by the hand to ease the horrible new player experience, who defended your game all over the internet against accusations of pay-to-win, cash-grab and other BS?

We, your loyal community.

Do you remember who gave you (at that time) the biggest kickstarter in the history of crowd funding?

We, your loyal community.

Do you remember the time in closed beta, when you guys made the rounds in TS and forums to collect ideas and feedback to base further tweaks on it? Man, we used to have some good times talking, joking and even sometimes dropping with each other.
What has become of you?
That so called "apology" was one of the most arrogant, demeaning and hurting texts I ever read from a company. You even had the balls to blame it all on Garth. If I were him, I would have immediately taken my leave and never turned back!
About the rest I think everything has been said so often it's not worth going back on it.

Now, what is that 180° I was talking about? In all due respect I ask you to delay launch until the following things are in the game, tested and stable:

- Tutorial
- Working HSR
- at least one other game mode
- The basics of Community Warfare
- UI 2.0 with lobbies
- Reworked 3rd person view with split queues/ restricted to cadet bonus/ certain amount of games or whatever
- Working Elo or extra new player queue (maybe for the first 100 games?)
- Solution for 2-11 player groups

Things you should work/ lay down a roadmap on:

- more game modes
- Clan invasion
- Electronic warfare (C3, command console etc.)

But most important now is - to win back your community! Don't you wonder why nobody is making any more machinima and funny mech-dance videos any longer? Don't you wonder where all the enthusiasm is gone?
Ask yourself, get rid of your tunnel vision, take a step back and look at the state of your game and your relations to your fanbase and t h i n k about it!

If all this happens because you get pressured into this course by your publisher, I hereby offer you a solution: Become independent! If you are open and honest, here will wait thousands of investors for you to make this game become what you laid down as your dream in the beginning.
We gave you 5 Million Dollars to start this adventure, and I assure you there is way more to come if you want to walk that road.

Sincerely

A loyal Shredhead

[XX Sulla XX]

Wow what a badly researched and written article. Its just one sided propaganda. You people who are happy about this show clearly how off your view of the game is. Clearly there are some problems with the game. But this article does not address them in a logical or even handed way. For example the part about 12vs12 is just nonsense. ....

"During this wave of disgruntlement, another feature was implemented against the “will of the community.” In this case, the feature was an increase in the maximum number of players allowed per battle, raising it to 12 players per side. While the change received an average reception in the public game community, competitive groups decried the feature as exacerbating the existing problems of a low competitive population in the full-time queue, and low “time-to-kill” (that is, how long it takes to destroy an enemy ‘Mech)" http://www.gamefront...ragesplosion/2/

It might have been against some ones will but was not "against the “will of the community.”". Thats what bothers me about this very very very very vocal minority. You act like you speak for 90% of the players. You dont. Most players wanted 12vs12. And a majority still like it.

I would go on but whats the point. I am not going to change the minds of those who are already so detached from the truth.

[KharnZor]

*edit* I shouldn't be so angry about a game.

Edited by KharnZor, 31 August 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[Sadist Cain]

Imagine if PGI were in control of government when Martin Luther King was around... "Vocal minority, not important"

[KovarD]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 31 August 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Either Garth has been completely handcuffed by PGI/IGP (I suppose that's possible), or he's just terrible at his job (based on my time here this is more likely).

I made a sugestion thread and sent to Garth. This is the response I got from him: