67 replies to this topic

[IanSane]

Look I understand there needs to be a way to have a heroic victory when all your teams mechs are dead and you defiantly steal their base...really I do. But you have GOT to balance this. There are guns and lasers and missiles but all anyone seems to use is their engines to win matches.

Match after match today it has been the same thing. My team lemmings one way the other team lemmings the other and first one to enemy cap wins. If you want a base to capture for the win make it dead center in the map because if even 2 mechs get in the cap circle there is no way anything short of a light or MAYBE a fast medium will make it back to defend and what is a light going to do against multiple assaults, heavies and who knows what that all crowded our base.

People will say okay then, start by defending the cap. My answer to that is okay if we defend and THEY defend we get to sit and watch the clock for 15 minutes. If we leave 1 or 2 behind to defend those people are going to get steamrolled by the lemming train.

Here is my suggestions.

Lengthen the time it takes to cap by as much as double. It takes forever to capture a resource point why not the base.
Get RID of cap accelerators
Make the capture speed cap out at 3 mechs (if a 4th enters the base it does nothing but still acrues the appropriate reward)
Place a base capture lockout for the first 5 minutes of the match.
Redesign the base locations so that teams have a realistic chance of going back to defend when needed.

I do not think you folks realize just how much this is hurting the game but I am sure most players do.

[verybad]

I would say rather than those, put in some defenses near bases. Passice (Radar that tells you when enemies are getting near, and aggressive (dakka turrets) Make it so that capturing a base is a task that takes soem firepower as well as armor, not just getting there fast.. However make it so that the defenses can be reduced by players.

Simple time limtis are boring as all get up though.

[Foxfire]

Or scout the map and be prepared to defend the base instead of lemminging blindly across the field.

It is one of the few things that scouts can still do that is worth anything in this game and you want to remove even that.

[TB Azrael]

Great another one of these.....

[PropagandaWar]

TB Azrael, on 30 August 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Great another one of these.....

Yep, and they will keep appearing till something happens. Base capping is a jerky move especially when there are only 2-6 mechs out of the game. You want to capture something play conquest. I agree with turrets, but PGI probably doesn't have any AI programmers.

[Triordinant]

Polls, surveys and anecdotes are never going to be proof of the "collective will of the MWO community". PGI should allow 2 Assault modes: one with base capping and one without, and after a predetermined period of time, see how many of the supposed thousands of players play in each mode. Players won't have to vote, go to the forums or do anything else, but at the end of the day, PGI will know without a shadow of a doubt what the "will of the community" really is. Let players vote by playing! Come to think of it, wouldn't seeing how many played Hardcore mode vs. 3PV allowed mode reveal the "collective will of the community" regarding that issue as well? I wonder if it'll be implemented before Launch as originally promised...?

[jper4]

getting 1 team to sit back and defend is tough enough so what are the odds that both sides, in the same match at that, are both going to decide to defend? pretty much everyone goes right or middle, so if you can get your side to go left then you're going to run into them (see previous comment about the odds of both teams deciding to go left at the same time-though slightly higher as teams are more mobile in that situation),

they actually did increase the cap times once already- takes forever to get a full red bar to slightly blue, i'm actually considering getting the cap accelerator now when before it wasn;t really needed as bases capped fast enough without any help.

[IanSane]

Foxfire, on 30 August 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

Or scout the map and be prepared to defend the base instead of lemminging blindly across the field.

It is one of the few things that scouts can still do that is worth anything in this game and you want to remove even that.

okay...you assume 1 thing...teamwork in a PUG. Not going to happen.

[Foxfire]

The problem then isn't the game mechanics.

[RedThirteen]

Foxfire, on 30 August 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

The problem then isn't the game mechanics.

It's the tendency to follow the same route like MOBA creeps EVERY SINGLE ******** TIME. And when someone deviates from your entrenched system, you whine, cry and lash out at the side who had the presence of mind to .. well use their brains.

Case example - Moving up to the caldera in terra therma, bottlenecking each other and creating a shooting gallery ALL THE TIME.

[Adrienne Vorton]

PropagandaWar, on 30 August 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

but PGI probably doesn't have any AI programmers.

afaik they´re on it, simple AI for training areas first,but at least a first step for regular AI units

[Zarlaren]

Make so it is impossible for a single mech to capture but instead it should require 3 or 4 mechs to start the capture process. Or encase the base in armor you have to destroy first. Possible 3rd could be they can have turrets that shoot at you while you try to cap enough to cause alot of harm to a single mech which can be destroyable but have large health pools.

Edited by Zarla, 30 August 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

Adrienne Vorton, on 30 August 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

afaik they´re on it, simple AI for training areas first,but at least a first step for regular AI units

I don't see how hard it would be to either A)give us death match or Write a program where static defenses roll a stupid die and they hit or miss.

[Khobai]

You dont even need base capture, the whole thing is some concocted asinine idea to give light mechs a role in the game.

We already have a timer... just have the team with the most kills win when time runs out... and if kills are tied then the team that did the most damage per tonnage wins.

[Foxfire]

They've already made it take forever to actually capture a base without 3-4 mechs... so you have plenty of time to respond to a single and even a double mech capture now even if you don't take the time to do any sort of scouting.

[Joseph Mallan]

PropagandaWar, on 30 August 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Yep, and they will keep appearing till something happens. Base capping is a jerky move especially when there are only 2-6 mechs out of the game. You want to capture something play conquest. I agree with turrets, but PGI probably doesn't have any AI programmers.

Sorry Prop. It is not a Jerky way to win. It is the very first victory condition. Meaning it should be the most valuable victory condition. Wiping out the enemy is supposed to be icing on the cake, not the main dessert.

[PropagandaWar]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 August 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Sorry Prop. It is not a Jerky way to win. It is the very first victory condition. Meaning it should be the most valuable victory condition. Wiping out the enemy is supposed to be icing on the cake, not the main dessert.

Why is it most people hate it as a game aspect and want a TDM? When a battles going strong and there is one maybe 2 mechs down it ruins the game. When a lot of times its because the opposing force has 3 lights to your 1 it ruins the game. Especially on a big map (which is where my primary complaint comes from). You can't use the argument leave a guy on base because if a Spider or even 2 go for it there's a good chance they won't even have hits register against them from the opposing pilot.If you were guaranteed fast lights against fast lights to counter then I think I would feel a bit different. Oh wait nope not on this one. Its a shooter. I play to shoot stuff and Base cap if it stays in should at the very least have Turrets and or a actual base and not some stupid rig to "protect". The game mode is called assault not capture the rig..I bet most people would play a TDM or one side base defense the second it became a game mode and assaults would be a vacant parking lot.

[IllCaesar]

PropagandaWar, on 31 August 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

I bet most people would play a TDM or one side base defense the second it became a game mode and assaults would be a vacant parking lot.

I'm new to MWO so I don't have much experience playing the game to speak on, but based on pretty much every multiplayer game I've ever played, this is absolutely true. When both sides have a base to defend, the game usually slows to a crawl and practically becomes a stalemate. The only time I don't see this happen is when people in the match were already in assembled teams prior to entering the match. I doubt there's many 12-mech teams in MWO, and even if there are, it'd be unwieldy for finding a match.

The only problem I could forsee with implementing an assault mode where its one side assaulting and one side defending is that you've got a 50/50 chance of ending up on either side. A light and medium mech could be very useful on the assault, but I'd think most players would be better off with a heavy or assault when on defense. Picking this new game mode while having selected your light mech of choice only to discover you're on defense is probably going to be a slap in the face. Off the top of my head, if you split the match time into two separate halves of what it already is, and then have an alternation, light and medium mechs would be more viable as you have to create a loadout for playing both offense and defense, and with the match time cut in half, I think it'd severely cut down the amount of people who leave the match prematurely, which would be an issue if somebody dies before the first alternation. Not many people are going to wait around in the match, spectating, for upwards of twelve minutes. Cut the match time in half for each round, seven minutes thirty seconds each, people are more willing to sit and wait.

And Team Deathmatch is Team Deathmatch, I really don't think that warrants any explanation.

Of course, this would require the developers giving a rat's arse. I guessing by the amount of toxicity aimed at Piranha, and the fact that it seems far more justified than most circumstances of whiny fanbases that can never be appeased (read: Bioware), this'll never even be considered, let alone read. But hey, at least nobody can say I didn't try.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 31 August 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Foxfire]

Then ask for Team Death match instead of trying to change a fundamental game type.

[PropagandaWar]

Foxfire, on 31 August 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Then ask for Team Death match instead of trying to change a fundamental game type.

We have been.