833 replies to this topic

[Sharp Spikes]

Hehe. I wonder how soon we'll hear whine about brawling being absolutely dominant metagame.

I predict global UAC/5 nerf, Gauss Rifle projectile speed nerf and then LRM nerf. Ah, and how could I forget, AC/2 will be nerfed again too. Because reasons, you know...

[Shiro Kell]

Symbiodinium, on 03 September 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

I hope the PPC heat nerfs weren't too strong.

There, there. *pat on head*

You obviously have no idea about mechwarrior mate. If you did you would realise that the PPC has not been 'nerfed' it has been returned to correct original heat values. When you research your information, your opinion will become valid.

[Kunae]

Wolfways, on 03 September 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

If you call firing twice and then hiding normal, then yes.
Just had a couple of games in my K2 and my damage in both matches was pitiful. I'll admit i missed a couple of times, but i'll have to get used to the new speed again.
Firing dual ERPPC's (with 20DHS) once on Terra Therma takes me to 50% heat?!

As they should.

You should be happy PGI is playing "fast and loose" with the heat-cap rules. If they were in effect, you might be shutting down firing both of them at once.

[Celyth]

Ellen Ripley, on 03 September 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Totally overnerfed sniping.

This patch just killed the (ER) PPC:
- Bump of base heat for both PPCs
- reduction of projectile speed
- PPC damage under 90m has been reduced to 0
You effectively reversed every buff for PPCs since closed beta
PPCs are back to closed beta levels aka. ERs are unusable and standard are actually even worse now with the removal of damage below 90m

The balance wasn't far off prior to this patch, a little buff for brawling and then sniping as well as brawling would have been equally viable.

Instead you decided to kill sniping and make brawling the way to play.


I don't understand why you are not aiming at making both playstyles viable at the same time. If you in fact did aim for that, then you failed horribly - again.


You don't hit a waepon system with 3 big nerfs in one patch guys, you just don't.
When people asked for more frequent game balance changes, gradual & small adjustments where meant, not the biggest sledgehammer you could possibly come up with.

LawL, l2p...the only buff PPCs needed was HSR
the under 90m rule is fair, i honestly shot way too often at 45-90.
The speed decrease matters, but will take some adjusting to get used to...big thing that helped PPCs is again, HSR.
The heat bump up...maybe a bit of a stretch, but then again, averaging over 900 a game with ppc/gauss really meant that they had to tone down the refire-ability (the heat).

About time, maybe i'll change from noob annihilator to noob stomper and hit the 600~ damage average a match. (something my victor brawler variant can achieve in a good game)

[Kunae]

Wolfways, on 03 September 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

But no weapons in MWO fire at TT rates, yet get TT heat?
An increase in fire rate should have been coupled with a similar decrease in heat generated.

If they did that, they'd also have to decrease the damage, the same amount.

[Symbiodinium]

Shiro Kell, on 03 September 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

You obviously have no idea about mechwarrior mate. If you did you would realise that the PPC has not been 'nerfed' it has been returned to correct original heat values. When you research your information, your opinion will become valid.

What was "correct" in BT or previous MW games is irrelevant. MWO is a different game with different mechanics and balance. Previous incarnations inform MWO but do not define it, and sticking too rigidly to some values may harm the ability to balance this new game. Arguing about bad giant robot physics is pointless.

[Kunae]

Symbiodinium, on 03 September 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

What was "correct" in BT or previous MW games is irrelevant. MWO is a different game with different mechanics and balance. Previous incarnations inform MWO but do not define it, and sticking too rigidly to some values may harm the ability to balance this new game. Arguing about bad giant robot physics is pointless.

The problem came about because they chose to "balance for the moment", before they had things like hit detection and network code finished.

Until those are solid, it is foolish to do any other "balancing" away from the canon values, or you end up with situations like what we've been dealing with, for the last year.

Edited by Kunae, 03 September 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[CorranHorn]

I was running in my Victor 9s variant, 2 LL, gauss, 3 ssrms, and a machine gun. Took second place in damage at 688, had 5 kills, 4 assists, 101 match score. I did not have any problems using my gauss. Took a couple shots to get used to the change. Was still able to snipe with the gauss, even hit some light mechs at distance, have not been met up close yet with a light mech, so I don't know how that will play out quite yet. It may not be cannon approved, and I don't necessarily like it and I don' necessarily hate it either, but I can cope with it and still succeed.

[SirDubDub]

Random idea here. Would it be possible to consider a slightly more powerful gauss detonation if the weapon is destroyed when its charged? This feels like a logical extension of the mechanic, and would further incentivize its use as a sniping weapon rather than a close combat weapon.

Eh. Food for thought. Really great patch, guys. I had a brand new player test the tutorial today (really smart kid, programming major, and loves the giant robots, but has virtually zero experience with shooter or sim games) by the end of the tutorial he was able to avoid almost every single kinesthetic new player pitfall behavior (torso twisting, arm rotation, basic movement and coordination)

Perhaps a slight bit of writing for entertainment would help keep the tutorials engaging. Talking to the player like a cadet on his first test run would be cool and immersive, or even some cheesy one-liners from The Garth to give the text some character.
The absolute ideal tutorial host would be George Ledoux as Duncan Fisher, by the way.

Edited by SirDubDub, 03 September 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[DarkCain]

CorranHorn, on 03 September 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

I was running in my Victor 9s variant, 2 LL, gauss, 3 ssrms, and a machine gun. Took second place in damage at 688, had 5 kills, 4 assists, 101 match score. I did not have any problems using my gauss. Took a couple shots to get used to the change. Was still able to snipe with the gauss, even hit some light mechs at distance, have not been met up close yet with a light mech, so I don't know how that will play out quite yet. It may not be cannon approved, and I don't necessarily like it and I don' necessarily hate it either, but I can cope with it and still succeed.

A decent light pilot is going to take you to the cleaners if you are running a gauss build. Not to worry I flipped over to a triple UAC5 build. Just wonder how long I get to play with that before they nerf those too.

Edited by DarkCain, 03 September 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[Morlokk]

So I am going to try to make a constructive post. I haven't posted a lot and I've tried to just see how things go and just watching whats been said. But it seems like they are fixing things that are only broken because they made them broken. For example I am not happy about this change with the Gauss. They say they are doing this because it's meant to be a sniping weapon and it should work a certain way. The Gauss is supposed to have a minimum range, but they just said eh we don't want it to, then when they are having in game issues they come up with something completely non cannon to try to compensate for an issue they created.

I've read that they don't put much stock into what the people say on the forums that we are the minority. First off weather we are the minority or not, we are the ones taking the time, that care enough to actually come here and make comment and statements and ask questions. Plus if a lot of us feel one way, there has to be others that feel the same way but just are not vocalizing it.

Secondly if they are not listening to the people here on the forums that are supposedly the minority, where are they getting their intel from the majority if they aren't taking the time to come here to ask questions and make comments.

They are just constantly making unnecessary changes to try to balance the game to keep players, but there hasn't been much balancing needed other than maybe some minor tweaks here and there, nothing like the HUGE double heatscaling. Gauss already has a lot of negative, its a heavy weapon that requires ammo, that in itself is the downside. The upside being the good damage and long distance.

But what they are not doing to keep players is making the price of the mechs reasonable. There is no other single game out there that costs this much to play IF you want to constantly buy mechs. Sure i know you don't HAVE to buy mechs, and you can use C-Bills which could take a couple months for a enough money to buy 3 full mechs and be able to outfit them the way you want to. Most MMOs are a simple 15 bucks a month. More games are now doing micro transactions which sometimes they make more off but you can spend dollar here a dollar there over time as you have the money. Here its like you need 20 to 30 bucks for a single mech, then you need the mech bay, then if you want premium time, then change colors if you really want it. I would have bought a lot more mechs than i own if they were like 5 bucks a mech. Also why does the size of the mech effect the cost? Its a virtual item, its not like this is real world and the more materials use to create it make it cost more, thats just silly. All mechs should be like 5 bucks and the hero and champion mechs 10 because they give you something extra.

Or how about this, anyone can play with ANY mech one time for 24 hours and outfit it any way they want, like a test drive before spending 30 bucks and come to find out you don't really even like that mech.

I guess this is a bit of rambling but this Gauss thing kinda put me over. But ya ya flame me whatever. I will still play, NEVER said i was stopping, and i will adapt and overcome, but I really shouldn't have to.

[Mycrus]

Pee pEe cee and gooserifle noobs - cry moar plz!

Pee pEe cee and gooserifle noobs - cry moar plz!

[ROJ]

Some people here are complaining the same way somebody would complain about nerfing LRMs because they simply don't know that they need to hide behind cover.
The Gauss and PPC are long range sniper weapons, these new tweaks don't really reduce their effectiveness rather simply restrict them to becoming sniper dedicated weapons.
What happened now is instead of seeing such weapons used continuously in 'brawls' and cheese builds; we will see more mechs with a mixed variety of load-outs in the field as how it is supposed to be.

I use Gauss rifles all the time and I used them a lot in brawls, I understand why they would add such restrictions seeing how I brawled with this weapons.. Bear in mind that the projectile is much faster now.

I wish if they speed up the AC20 projectile, now that the Gauss is a long-mid range weapon.

Edited by ROJ, 03 September 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[CorranHorn]

DarkCain, on 03 September 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

A decent light pilot is going to take you to the cleaners if you are running a gauss build. Not to worry I flipped over to a triple UAC5 build. Just wonder how long I get to play with that before they nerf those too.

Well that can happen anyways, but yes the gauss can be a good deterrent from that happening, and I do like seeing the light mechs scramble to get away from the gauss, but I still have other weapons to fend off attacks, just nothing quite as hard hitting. Besides I shouldn't be off by myself. Should be at least one or two other people with me to prevent that from happening. Now that doesn't happen often but it should.

[Jim thorne]

Solid patch and I love the gauss buff

[Crazycajun]

Edited by Crazycajun, 03 September 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[Grugore]

anfadern, on 03 September 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

I tell you, the Gauss is really messed up. You can't chain fire the weapon anymore. It will take some time to get used to that... Hold to arm, Release to fire

Just need to practice. And tell me you don't just LOVE the increased velocity.

[IceCase88]

Well done, People! You have successfully nerfed a weapons combo that was not OP but was a good combo! Well done! Now... what good weapons combo that infringes upon your play-style will you attack next? Rally, People! Grab your torches and pitchforks!



We must destroy all good weapons combos to the point the game is unplayable for everyone! Heat penalty for all mechs that carry more than one of the same weapon! Rally! Destroy the game to the point of it being unplayable! Arcade-style, NASCAR-esque mechs for everyone! Everyone must drop into a game with the same mech and same weapons! From each according to their ability. to each according to their need! Pfffffft.... In your quest for "weapons balance" and "meta balance" you are going to nerf this game into the realm of unplayability. GG on the QQing. What can you ask the Devs to destroy next, Locusts? The sad thing is the Devs are willing participants in it.



The Gauss rifle is a long range weapon for direct fire support. Now, it is not a very useful weapon for that because at long ranges centimeters/inches matter and the new delay to fire makes long distance shots even more difficult. Now it is purely a brawling weapon. GG on the nerf, Locusts.

Edited by IceCase88, 03 September 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[KillerCat]

THE TEARS. SO YUMMY.

I really like that patch, keep it up.

[Stunner]

I must first state that I was vocal when I was upset about the 3pv. So I must be vocal to show my support behind this patch.
First off I'm glad to see that a tutorial was put in place. I went ahead and checked it out before putting up this post so I could provide some feed back on it. It's a good start and with the camera angle change you can actually see the feet of the mech so good job. I need to check out some other mechs as well. In fact the tutorial encourages players to use first person and points out how they will be missing out on some features if in 3rd person view.
The gauss buff/nerf. I don't see the changes as a nerf to Guass other than it's not a good brawling weapon. Good I saw this coming and I've been using AC/20's recently again to get out of the habit of using a heat free weapon up close. Brawling is balanced with heat. For those that said the AC/20 needs a nerf it has already been nerfed as you can only fire one at a time otherwise you get the bonus heat. The Gauss rifle is still better for dual firing over the AC/20. This change may also affect pop-tart firing of guass rifles until folks get the timing down better. I think PPC's will become the pop tart weapons. The heat increase is probably fair and even the minimum of 90 meters. I see some folks request a field inhibator that they can remove so they can fire below 90 meters. I'm all for that if you take damage from using that as in some other mechwarrior titles. I see some folks are also upset about the PPC travel speed being nerfed it is still faster than what a Guass was previously so you should be able to adjust to it. If anything I think the game just will require to to adjust your aim a bit and timing. Sniper boats that only have PPC's and Gauss rifles may have problems defending themselves. Well guess what LRM boats have had that issue from day one. Put a few medium lasers on your sniping boat for back up damage. You don't have to alpha every attack. That's what the stalker was designed for to have long range and close range weapons not to alpha all the time.
I wasn't waiting on the Orion as so many others have so it's not that exciting to me but hey I know some of the community wanted them so kuddos and I hope they enjoy them. I think the Orion is designed with the new changes in mind since it has long range and close range weapons.
I'll do some more testing and provide more feedback in the feedback section. Once again thank you for this change as with all things we need to test and see what additional changes need to be made. Did anyone else notice that while they added training to the drop down box the hard core modes are still there? Why didn't you all remove them if you don't plan on using them. I suspect we are going to see more modes in the future.