88 replies to this topic

[JohnnyWayne]

But you point is still there. The PPC should be almost instant hitting. Not this cheap "plasma rifle" ********. TT? Ok give me TT. The whole thing.

[TheBossHammer]

hashinshin, on 03 September 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Yeah those good players are totally boating AC2s and hitting every shot. It all happens in magical candy land.

Not anymore, there's a bug that makes desynced AC/2's trigger heat scaling faster than sync'ed AC/2's.

[New Day]

TheBossHammer, on 03 September 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Patching now, will post when it's done. Also, who cares about pinpoint. Good players can keep their reticle on target long enough to get four desync'ed AC/2's to stay on target, something tells me they can do it with PPC's and a Gauss.

It actually autocorrected to {scrap}. Nice one PGI.

Also...DID YOU ACTUALLY PUT AMMO IN THE LEGS WHEN YOU DIDN'T NEED TO!?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...afb468970fd105b

This is the build, not sure if the link is gonna work but i'll fix if it doesn't. 65KPH, not the 80 I said (because I upgunned from an AC/10 a while ago and that guy could go a lot faster) but the point is the same. This is a stupid fast mech that I use to average 400 damage a match (more like half 600+, half I get blown away in the first minute and score less than 200) and which I am pretty sure is gonna be the meta pretty soon.

AC/20 ammo is in CT, by the time the ammo would pop I've spent it all and am down to the paired LL's. I can maneuver better than any heavy on the map, have full armor where I need it, and I'm still combat effective until I've lost both arms, which takes a LONG time with the way the Cataphract can twist.

That build sucks balls. Slow, ammo in the chest (great idea yeah, also I didn't put the ammo there i just copied a similar build off mechspecs) and NOWHERE near enough ammo (5t would probably be good), so what you said was still ********. Really, I wonder how you can maneuver better than all those 300 plus lighter heavy mechs. You could barely run away from an atlas. Finally you can keep your laser on target but I'm going to keep turning so the point is moot.

And please do explain how nerfing two out of three heavy hitting weapons in the game is going to make the current meta any more 'dead in the first minute' than it is now.

[Raso]

SRMs got a buff to their rate of fire for the smaller launchers. If the wonky hit registration with SRMs is fixed they could help to up the ante with brawling weapons.

With PPCs having increased heat and reduced functionality at close range I think that we could see more brawls breaking out and that makes me smile. At the same time the reduced PPC speed seems like an unnecessary nerf and seems like one which went to far. I fear that the heat and reduced bullet speed on the PPC will make it too cumbersome for use as either a long range or medium range weapon and that it's minimum range and heat will reduce it's effectiveness up close (though that's a good thing).

I think that the PPCs should have had their refire rate prolonged, heat per shot increased to maintain a high heat per second and maybe had their minimum range increased to 120m with a linear damage decay with the ERPPCs gaining a minimum range of 90m with a minimum damage decay. PPCs should be cumbersome up close and out classed by shorter, lighter, weapons in a brawl but should excel at medium range direct fire support. The PPC should be outclassed at range by the ERPPC and Gauss and their rate of fire should make them a liability up close. They should be weapons which work well at medium to long range but encourage you to switch to other weapon systems when you enter into closer range.

The Gauss's charge up time though.... that just seems unnecessary. The problem isn't with the Gauss it's with stacking the Gauss along side a few PPCs because poeple feel little need to use anything else. Frankly, I don't know what I'd do differently, though, so I really can't comment.

OVer all it seems like there are some steps forward and some backwards. That's my 2 cents.

[JohnnyWayne]

18 DHS are not enough to cool a mech with 2 PPCs 1 AC2 and 2ML.

I lol'd damn hard. They ****** up... The gauss "nerf" is quite.. Well... It practically only increased its cooldown... Thats all...

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 03 September 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[Steel Claws]

Tesunie, on 03 September 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

I agree with the heat changes to the PPC and ERPPC. Travel speed is still fast even if I'm not understanding how "artificial lightning" moves slower than a Gauss (speed of light vs speed of sound (AKA: PPC moves at light speed, Gauss breaks the sound barrier.)) I want to see the relation between these changes an the absolute 0 damage within 90m for the PPC.

I'm feeling that just the heat and projectile speed changes should have been good enough to test now. With the 90m 0 damage of PPC added in at the same time, I'm worried it might be too much. I'll still try this and see how it works of course, and it might be just what is needed.

Still disagree with Gauss getting a charge delay, but the reasoning makes sense. We shall also see where this leads. "Hollander 3" will just have to go out for a run after the patch is up I suspect.

Yeah, got to love the physics in the 30th century. Long ranged missiles that are slower than a light mech. Artifical lightening that travels slower than a bullet.

[DeadlyNerd]

Lol yeah, cry moar snipers.

Anyway, it's good to know PGI wasted months when everyone on the forum was suggesting this from the get go, well done.

I'll just ask 1 thing. How on earth are they going to justify AWS-8Q and 9M default loadouts now?

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 03 September 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Steel Claws]

DeadlyNerd, on 03 September 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Lol yeah, cry moar snipers.

Anyway, it's good to know PGI wasted months when everyone on the forum was suggesting this from the get go, well done.

You mistakenly think that things will change. There will always be snipers - they will just move to some other build or adapt. Nerfing weapons is never the answer because players will just move to the next thing - and then all you cryhards will ***** about that.

[TheBossHammer]

NamesAreStupid, on 03 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

That build sucks balls. Slow, ammo in the chest (great idea yeah, also I didn't put the ammo there i just copied a similar build off mechspecs) and NOWHERE near enough ammo (5t would probably be good), so what you said was still ********. Really, I wonder how you can maneuver better than all those 300 plus lighter heavy mechs. You could barely run away from an atlas. Finally you can keep your laser on target but I'm going to keep turning so the point is moot.

And please do explain how nerfing two out of three heavy hitting weapons in the game is going to make the current meta any more 'dead in the first minute' than it is now.

5T of ammo is a waste. The AC/20 will be gone before you get through the first 14 shots in 90% of games, and if you plan for the 10%, you're just bad. I put my ammo in the CT because it's better than the legs and I don't want it in the spot where the AC/20 is, because good players are going to blow off the AC/20 immediately and the ammo explosion will end me (and case isn't worth the tonnage on a build like this). In the CT, I can torso twist to keep damage off of it, and unless he brings MG's or an LB 10-X (which 90% of the time he won't,) my opponent won't be able to cause an ammo explosion reliably. It's certainly better than the legs, popping a leg should never, EVER lead to a popped RT or LT as well.

Also, since when is 65KPH slow on a Cataphract? That's seriously fast for a 70 ton heavy, and with JJ's you might as well add 20KPH to the speed for all intents and purposes. As for the Atlas you mentioned, I JJ over the hill that I am inevitably near (because if I'm not, there wasn't a point to bringing JJ's). He sighs and realizes he can't chase me.

And the funny thing is that the big combo (the 2ERPPC+Gauss Combo) still works. Lethality didn't go anywhere from this patch, and if it had, the AC/20 would have become God because there's nothing that can deal with it at close range. The AC/10 is a piece of dung, the LB 10-X is too specialized (though it is good now), and the smaller lasers are all terrible.

The only thing I noticed after this patch is that LRM's have returned to front and center due the lower volume of PPC fire, and lethality has risen a little because of it.

Edited by TheBossHammer, 03 September 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

Steel Claws, on 03 September 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

You mistakenly think that things will change. There will always be snipers - they will just move to some other build or adapt. Nerfing weapons is never the answer because players will just move to the next thing - and then all you cryhards will ***** about that.

"Pull yo' pants up."
I'm joking about the fact that PGI basically made a full circle in PPC balance despite everyone suggesting that they keep the default settings and work something else out.

Ignorance may be bliss, but not in your case.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 03 September 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Bors Mistral, on 03 September 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Mine has been running 4ML and 2UAC5 for over half an year now and it won't change a bit.

The PPC changes in the patch will hurt some players a ton, but will make for a more interesting game. I would still prefer if PPCs and ERPPCs didn't have the same projectile speed. Say, if the ER was 1500 instead.

However, a plain zero under 90m? Why not make it 8 at 120-90, 6 at 90-60, 2 at under 60? That would've been nice. And for both ER and regular PPCs, please.

Anyhow, can't way to get home and take an actual combat run through the changes.

I run my K2 exactly like that with that UAC5 build currently and it is a KILLER.

[WM Wraith]

JohnnyWayne, on 03 September 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

No, it was not. I hit my targets. Now I hit them and don't do damage. PPC is meant to be instant hitting. If you stick to TT and lore then make it that way. And make DHS finally double. You want it like TT? Then do it like it.

+1 on this for DHS - stupid to say that double = only 1.4

Gauss recharge is a ******** idea also. Gauss was working fine with its longer recharge.

Also think that with nerfs of this magnitude that we should be refunded the amount of cbills for the nerfed item (remove and refund PPC, ERPPC, and Gauss Rifles), then we could decide or not to re-purchase. My mechs were built for the play style supported by the weapons at the time...and PGI has broken that style or change the terms they were purchased under.

Now with these changes, I no longer get what I paid for. Its like the mechanic breaking your car while he has it so it runs only 55 mph and you have to live with it.

[Tesunie]

Though this thread is about PPCs, I'd like to comment, Gauss isn't too bad, but it took me a while to figure out how to get it to shoot. Kept "not shooting" because I held it down a bit too long...

Not a fan of the Gauss now, and I think it's just going to confuse new players even more when they try to use it. I can see a lot of complaints as to "why wont it shoot" and then it never being played by new players for a while... Just a concern I'm getting from it. However, I did find my shots to be more accurate with the Gauss now.

[WM Wraith]

JohnnyWayne, on 03 September 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

18 DHS are not enough to cool a mech with 2 PPCs 1 AC2 and 2ML.

I lol'd damn hard. They ****** up... The gauss "nerf" is quite.. Well... It practically only increased its cooldown... Thats all...

Does not work because double heat sinks are not double.
PGI doubled armor. PGI doubled ammo. PGI muffed up "double" heat sinks. This is the fix the game needs. Then the PPC, ERPPC nerf makes sense. Put heat and heat sink dissipation at table top guidelines.

[WM Wraith]

Tesunie, on 03 September 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Though this thread is about PPCs, I'd like to comment, Gauss isn't too bad, but it took me a while to figure out how to get it to shoot. Kept "not shooting" because I held it down a bit too long...

Not a fan of the Gauss now, and I think it's just going to confuse new players even more when they try to use it. I can see a lot of complaints as to "why wont it shoot" and then it never being played by new players for a while... Just a concern I'm getting from it. However, I did find my shots to be more accurate with the Gauss now.

Tesunie, on 03 September 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Not a fan of the Gauss now, and I think it's just going to confuse new players even more when they try to use it. I can see a lot of complaints as to "why wont it shoot" and then it never being played by new players for a while... Just a concern I'm getting from it. However, I did find my shots to be more accurate with the Gauss now.

We get "3rd Person View" because of the confused new players.

Yet...PGI goes and takes a center piece of the game, the king of the hill for damage, the gauss rifle, and makes it confusing to use to new players.

PGI - you funny!

P.S. PGI - I think your logic is a pile of smelly stuff on your decision making for this game so far. Put down the magic 8 ball and use some common sense in your building of weapon and gameplay mechanics choices for the way ahead. Lets skip the craziness and get back to "Battletech" and leave "mechassault" alone and dead.

[Bravado]

Tesunie, on 03 September 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Though this thread is about PPCs, I'd like to comment, Gauss isn't too bad, but it took me a while to figure out how to get it to shoot. Kept "not shooting" because I held it down a bit too long...

Not a fan of the Gauss now, and I think it's just going to confuse new players even more when they try to use it. I can see a lot of complaints as to "why wont it shoot" and then it never being played by new players for a while... Just a concern I'm getting from it.

That is is actually something that bugs me. The Main argument for 3PV to be implemented was, that it was supposed to be a help for new Players, yet they seem to add something with every second patch (Ghost Heat, Gauss Fire Delay, etc.) that is even more confusing for new guys or are never explained in Game, where it should be.

Edited by Bravado, 03 September 2013 - 12:03 PM.

[Sug]

Min range nerf kinda blows : /

[Tesunie]

CyBerWraith, on 03 September 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

We get "3rd Person View" because of the confused new players.

Yet...PGI goes and takes a center piece of the game, the king of the hill for damage, the gauss rifle, and makes it confusing to use to new players.

PGI - you funny!

P.S. PGI - I think your logic is a pile of smelly stuff on your decision making for this game so far. Put down the magic 8 ball and use some common sense in your building of weapon and gameplay mechanics choices for the way ahead. Lets skip the craziness and get back to "Battletech" and leave "mechassault" alone and dead.

If you hadn't added the last part, I could have "liked" your posted. However... now I just agree with most of it, but not all.


On the PPC front, after a single round of testing my old Dragon with an ER PPC, LBxAC10, and 2 LRM5s. Normally ran moderately hot, but now runs "extremely" hot. I've had to remove an LRM rack (and LRM ammo) and add in more heat sinks. I think this is probably a good thing. Have not used the PPC, as I use my Dragon's ERPPC more like a smasher weapon...

Most testing in progress.

[Tesunie]

Another round with more sinks in my mech, and I ran cooler. Seems like a good move to me so far.

Now, normal PPCs seem even less prosperous of an option now, even though they run cooler. But, that just might promote more teamwork to cover a PPC user, and the PPC user needing to keep people at "arms length".

[JohnnyWayne]

CyBerWraith, on 03 September 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Does not work because double heat sinks are not double.
PGI doubled armor. PGI doubled ammo. PGI muffed up "double" heat sinks. This is the fix the game needs. Then the PPC, ERPPC nerf makes sense. Put heat and heat sink dissipation at table top guidelines.

JohnnyWayne, on 03 September 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

You like the new PPC changes? So, you guys want TT values? Allrighty:

• DHS - make em double!: 18 DHS are not sufficient to cool a 2PPC 1AC2 2ML Mech in a reasonable manner.
  
• PPC almost instant hitting: Like it should be - lighthing. "Projectile" speed to 4000 min.
  
• PPC field inhibitor: Option to turn it of for the common costs.

Thats the least thing to argue about 10 heat on a standard PPC. A gauss shot is faster than a ppc, I lold hard. The Gauss changes are laughable it gave the gauss a longer cd thats almost it...

^^