21 replies to this topic

[DeadlyNerd]

I'll just put these here:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ER_PPC

And now I'm going to literally LMAO at PGI's balance because they've basically wasted half a year in order to get back to original heat when EVERYBODY was telling them to do that in the first place.

GJ, way to spend your resources.

[redreaper]

A i told you so thread...

[Lefty Lucy]

DeadlyNerd, on 03 September 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I'll just put these here:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ER_PPC

And now I'm going to literally LMAO at PGI's balance because they've basically wasted half a year in order to get back to original heat when EVERYBODY was telling them to do that in the first place.

GJ, way to spend your resources.

"Everybody?" Not me. Original heat with PGI's heat system means an unused weapon system.

[BlueVisionWarrior Online]

Yes because the game is exactly what it was a year ago...

THEN WHERE'S MAH BLUE VISION DAGNUBBIT?!

[Zombeh]

I've had to remove PPCs from my rigs. I totally understand that they should run hot, but I don't get enough utililty out of them at this point to justify the heat. I liked where they were before the patch. I couldn't fire them continuously, but 4 shots didn't overheat me in a rig setup with PPCs as the MAIN WEAPONS.

Also, I liked Blue vision; it looked better, the current heat vision is gimmicky looking. I would be perfectly happy if they instituted blue again even with the range dropoff.

[hashinshin]

aaaaaaaand now PPCs are removed from every mech and not seen.

Your bible is a terrible bible. It was written in the 80s and based on a point system that MWO doesn't even use. Why do you keep obeying your bible?

[SteelPaladin]

hashinshin, on 03 September 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

aaaaaaaand now PPCs are removed from every mech and not seen.

Your bible is a terrible bible. It was written in the 80s and based on a point system that MWO doesn't even use. Why do you keep obeying your bible?

PGI were the ones that decided they wanted to take a few verses out of the book as gospel even if they don't (seem to) work so well. 10 second turns were a fluff piece to help people get a feel for how fast things were moving in a game of BattleTech. The game mechanics didn't care if a turn was 3 seconds, 5 minutes, or a year. Declaring that a turn was "10 seconds" had no interaction w/any of the other game numbers. It was literally meaningless to the actual way the game played. Yet the 10 second turn is one of the very few things in MWO that has never been tweaked.

15 heat for an ER PPC makes sense when everything fires at the same rate and gets a chance to dissipate for the next go round. 15 heat on a 4 second cooldown but a 10 second dissipation cycle is brutal. Instead of an AWS-9M actually having a reason to have 3 PPCs every other turn, there's almost never a reason to have 3. You can't fire them all at once (ghost heat), and it's extremely painful to fire all three in succession before the first finishes cooldown (not enough dissipation).

[Straften]

DeadlyNerd, on 03 September 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I'll just put these here:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ER_PPC

And now I'm going to literally LMAO at PGI's balance because they've basically wasted half a year in order to get back to original heat when EVERYBODY was telling them to do that in the first place.

GJ, way to spend your resources.

Yeah this makes sense. I mean, they are using original armor, why not original heat? Feels balanced... *removes PPC weapons from all mechs*

Edited by Straften, 03 September 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[WhiteTiger]

hashinshin, on 03 September 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

aaaaaaaand now PPCs are removed from every mech and not seen.

Your bible is a terrible bible. It was written in the 80s and based on a point system that MWO doesn't even use. Why do you keep obeying your bible?

If you are referring to BattleTech then I would ask you this question. Why are you playing this game? The core/basis for MWO is BattleTech. The history and characters that made the game so popular is what sets it apart from other giant robot games, it's like playing a football game without the NFL endorsement...it's just not the same. There is nothing behind it no history, no familiar teams or players to cheer and get excited about.
It's the same with Mechwarrior, take away BattleTech and you get blah....

As for the number's part and trying to make it into a realtime simulation.......well that's the trick. I agree with the heat, but to go over board and nerf the speed, IMHO is a little extreme. Think about it, it's a lightning bolt.
By going this extreme with the PPC's it just brings it back to the beginning of closed beta when hardly anyone used PPC's, it was too hot and too slow, which made it very ineffective. Now if they were to keep the heat and bring the speed back to before the patch, I think that would balance it a little better. Sorry for being old school, I've been a BattleTech/Mechwarrior fan since the beginning and I have such a passion for this game. Lol

[Dagada]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 September 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

"Everybody?" Not me. Original heat with PGI's heat system means an unused weapon system.

Honestly it was the 400 or 600 m/s projectile that made them completely unused in the game. could fire them at an atlas and it could back away from the projectile before it got to them.

just so happens when they boosted the projectile speed was also when they did the first heat reduction also.

[Theodor Kling]

In all fairness, they tweaked it, and made a circle..so what? Happens when your try to balance things. And althoug hthe PPC heat is back to where it started, the enviroment in which it lives is not. All missiles are retty different from last year, gauss is different, we got ghost heat ( ), ecm behaves slightly different, movement restrictions...

I don´t use PPCs that much anyway, so I won´t judge on how well balanced the new old heat on them is yet. Will wait to see how they are used by others, and test them myself from time to time before I do that.
But I applaud PGI for changing them. Changing a value back to where it was ( in a different context), and provoking the flood of "I told you so" is psychologicly harder than inventing ghost heat. They did it anyway because they thought it the right thing to do.

[Angel of Annihilation]

DeadlyNerd, on 03 September 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I'll just put these here:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ER_PPC

And now I'm going to literally LMAO at PGI's balance because they've basically wasted half a year in order to get back to original heat when EVERYBODY was telling them to do that in the first place.

GJ, way to spend your resources.

Ironically I find pretty much the same thing you find funny but for different reasons.


Amazingly enough back in closed beta, 10 and 15 heat for PPCs and ER PPCs was obviously broken and turned the PPC and ER PPC into a pile of useless scrap that no one bothered to mount....which of course is why they balanced them to be 8 and 11 heat. Now they have in their almightly wisdom decided to revert the heat back to the "broken" state it was in back 12 months ago.

LMAO at taking 12 months of "balancing" to do absolutely nothing except return right back to where they were 12+ months ago where they were originally determined as broken.

[Corvus Antaka]

without DHS PPC was unused and worthless. things change.

[Theodor Kling]

Viktor Drake, on 03 September 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Ironically I find pretty much the same thing you find funny but for different reasons.


Amazingly enough back in closed beta, 10 and 15 heat for PPCs and ER PPCs was obviously broken and turned the PPC and ER PPC into a pile of useless scrap that no one bothered to mount....which of course is why they balanced them to be 8 and 11 heat. Now they have in their almightly wisdom decided to revert the heat back to the "broken" state it was in back 12 months ago.

LMAO at taking 12 months of "balancing" to do absolutely nothing except return right back to where they were 12+ months ago where they were originally determined as broken.

Not true. Like others already pointed out: Back in CB the projectile speed was much lower( especially nasty without HSR), the slight EMP effect was not yet present and most other weapons were changed as well in the meantime. So although the heat on PPCs is back to where it was ( and canon wise belongs), but the PPC as a whole is not.

[Grey Ghost]

PPC's are probably dead for anyone who semi relied on them at brawling range (0 damage under 90m), but I don't think 1 extra heat will be it's death knell for ranged bombardment. Personally, I prefer 2 ER-LLs over 2 PPCs.

I think the ER-PPC shall see a huge drop-off in use. I myself wouldn't use more than 1 total per Mech, and only if I couldn't fit 2 ER-LL instead.

[Drasari]

DeadlyNerd, on 03 September 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I'll just put these here:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ER_PPC

And now I'm going to literally LMAO at PGI's balance because they've basically wasted half a year in order to get back to original heat when EVERYBODY was telling them to do that in the first place.

GJ, way to spend your resources.

The ER/PPC numbers are meant for true double heat sinks, not the garbage we have now. I can count on one hand the number of ER/PPC's I have seen tonight but I have lost count of the number of U/AC-5's and SRM/SSRM boats.

[MrZakalwe]

PGI need to learn to balance more gently.

PPCs being nerfed I'm not sad to see- PPCs getting 3 major nerfs in one patch?

Speed reduction? Cool - this is the route I'd have gone for - makes it harder for me to hit lights/fast mediums at mid range. A good change.

0 damage <90m? On its own this would be enough to dethrone the basic PPC as it now makes a PPC mech super vulnerable to anyone closing with them and combined with the speed reduction this might have been an overnerf. Harder to hit lights/mediums at range and can't hit them at all up close.

Heat increase... seriously? after the other two?

The really odd thing is that this shouldn't bother twin ERPPC+Gauss that much as the shot speeds for the two weapons are now very similar making lead amount easier to judge and firing the Gauss at the same time as the PPC is still easy.

[FREDtheDEAD]

MrZakalwe, on 04 September 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

PGI need to learn to balance more gently.

PPCs being nerfed I'm not sad to see- PPCs getting 3 major nerfs in one patch?

Exectly. It's incredible. Extreme, even for PGI's weapon balancing ethos.

With the abilities of the PPC nerffed, I'll bet we'll see the much ignorred ER LLs in mechs that don't have ballistic hard points, which is a good thing.

(Side note: it would be nice if the visual effects for ER weapons were slightly different to their standard counterparts. Purple lasers? Maybe not.)

Well, no more 2xERPPC+Gauss Victor poptarts. But of an extreme way to go about it.

Edited by Xajorkith, 04 September 2013 - 01:21 AM.

[Tskeet]

I welcome the change because it brings more variation to the game. You can still use 2x ER PPC, it just takes a little longer to cool. As for the Gauss... Well...

[Rabcor]

hashinshin, on 03 September 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

aaaaaaaand now PPCs are removed from every mech and not seen.

Your bible is a terrible bible. It was written in the 80s and based on a point system that MWO doesn't even use. Why do you keep obeying your bible?

The age of ER Large Lasers has dawned!!! (Even before this patch they were better than even the standard PPCs)

The ER LLs are supposed to have 12 heat. but they still got 8.5.

They should use the original heat scaling but increase the amount of heat every mech can hold and the dissipation to balance it out and make laser weapons more viable for gameplay.

Edited by Rabcor, 04 September 2013 - 05:21 AM.