490 replies to this topic

[Cest7]

Can we have the Gauss DPS back yet?

[Leroifou]

Cest7, on 09 December 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Can we have the Gauss DPS back yet?

+1

I don't even mind the charge mechanic. It's neat. But please adjust the recycle time somewhat to compensate for the huge drop in DPS.

Edited by Leroifou, 10 December 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Lennex]

Leroifou, on 10 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

+1

I don't even mind the charge mechanic. It's neat. But please adjust the recycle time somewhat to compensate for the huge drop in DPS.

the charge mechanic does cause a player to get better I think. I abandoned my DragonSlayer after the charge mechanic was implemented... a ERPPC Gauss 2 ML, 2 SRM4 build that was devastating in the original "Victor" meta where I was PUGin 500 dmg averages. Recently I picked it back up and after a half dozen games got the charge mechanic down and now pull 400 games with it recently. I would like to get it back up to 500 but I think the recycle time of the GR is hurting me from hitting that number.

[colsan]

Call me crazy, but I actually like the charge mechanic; I map Gauss to the button next to my DPI switch and hit both at the same time, so I charge up and my mouse speed slows down so I can put it JUST where I want it, and it's just second-nature to up the DPI back up between shots after a few games.

The DPS hit is a killer, though; you can load AC/5s and a couple of ERLLAS and heat sinks for the same tonnage, similar range, and way more DPS. Get fewer kills, but more money.

[Ace Selin]

Gauss is just fine the way it is now. Those dual Gauss things shooting from 1 k away, damn,

[colsan]

Ace Selin, on 14 January 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Gauss is just fine the way it is now. Those dual Gauss things shooting from 1 k away, damn,

Have you played them? Do you know their weaknesses?

1. Only 3 chassis can even mount 2 Gauss; Cataphract, Catapult, and Jager, and only the K2 can put them in the torso, so the other 2 have convergence issues. The K2 is basically just one big CT hitbox.

2. Gauss are 15 tons each, and only get 10 ammo/ton, so you need ~35 tons dedicated to just those weapons. This means a small XL engine and 2MLAS, so it's meat against close lights. Even if you squeezed 4MLAS in, you would have heat issues thanks to this being a fantasy- rather than physics-based game.

3. With the charge mechanic, a plain AC/5 actually has better DPS and leaves you tonnage for decent secondary weapons; as I said, fewer kills, but you'll earn more money from carving people up.

[DAYLEET]

more balistic need to have their firering mechanics(as opposed to their velocity) revamped unless we want to play Ballistic Warrior Online for ever. I like the gauss change, the sound change was dumb though. Gauss still a crazy opportunity killer that the ac10 ac5 cant dream to be.

The recent ac10 nerf did more than slow the bullet, its also much less accurate, im talking about shooting an immobile target while also being immobile and aiming center torso, should never miss.

[SIN Deacon]

I love how the only solution they can come up with is to nerf weapons. All they've done is dumb the game down to the point where any meat head could put a config together and just hold the trigger (or close to it). I was just about to make a new thread laughing at the front page stating "The clan invasion is here", except it's just a invasion of your wallet because no content is present, like everything else they have released.

[Summon3r]

If the amount of ballistics in game is out of balance in regards to people reffering to MWO and BWO (ballistic weapons online) then i would think there would be an extremely easy fix to this....

DO NOT allow ridiculous ammo storage locations all over the mech.... for example ammo being stored in legs, and require ammo to be stored in the same location as the weapon system.

[elsie]

Summon3r, on 31 January 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

If the amount of ballistics in game is out of balance in regards to people reffering to MWO and BWO (ballistic weapons online) then i would think there would be an extremely easy fix to this.... DO NOT allow ridiculous ammo storage locations all over the mech.... for example ammo being stored in legs, and require ammo to be stored in the same location as the weapon system.

Cool idea bro. Then the YLW can have the AC20 in the arm, but isn't allowed to carry any ammo because there's no room left in the arm. I mean, how are those big huge shells supposed to get through those arm actuators and what not...


else

Yeah, that was sarcasm.

[Summon3r]

elsie, on 31 January 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Cool idea bro. Then the YLW can have the AC20 in the arm, but isn't allowed to carry any ammo because there's no room left in the arm. I mean, how are those big huge shells supposed to get through those arm actuators and what not...


else

Yeah, that was sarcasm.

cool bro, thx for helping to further my point. ..... And no that wasn't sarcasm.

[Rebas Kradd]

colsan, on 20 January 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Have you played them? Do you know their weaknesses?

1. Only 3 chassis can even mount 2 Gauss; Cataphract, Catapult, and Jager, and only the K2 can put them in the torso, so the other 2 have convergence issues. The K2 is basically just one big CT hitbox.

Doesn't matter. If only three chassis can handle them, then people will simply flock to those 3 chassis. And if they're smart, they'll position themselves in such a way that overheating and hitboxes aren't a problem - i.e. they'll snipe from 1k away.

I believe in specialization and even boating, but if it kills brawling, it's a problem. This adjustment is great.

[Colonel Fubar]

The Gauss Rifle has always been a perfect point and shoot weapon system. And it was a self-fulfilling prophecy that when someone decided to start Riki-Tiking with that firing process, that its historical potential would be castrated into 15 tons of basically worthless junk. It never ceases to amaze as to how much time and energy will be burned on issue that needed no attention. Yet other seriously obvious ones remain in an indefinite holding pattern.

Edited by Danny Fubar Col 21C RHG, 01 February 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[Kaoba]

I don't really like the new gauss system,its ok when you snipe,but you can't be a camper all the day.....
When you have to help your team,and get into a brawl is really crap the gauss(against light you have nothing to do),it they want to keep this,at least let us to keep the charge until you fire......

[Daikyu Kell]

The Devs have stated that the gauss is a snipe/role specific weapon, it should have the specs of a snipe weapon, The mechanic is fine, you just have to get used to it, although it should have a better ready indicator. As for role specific yes it has a very fast muzzle velosity but the damage at sniping distances leaves a lot to be desired.

It was origionally desighned to counter LRM's but at 1000m the gauss does half its damage. For how fragile the weapon is and how devestating the damage to the equiped mech is when the weapon is desrtoyed, there is no real plus side, currently you have to place yourself well inside other weapon ranges to be really effective. The Gauss rifle should be one of the most feared weapons on the battlefield but being sniped by one or two at present at long ranges is more of an annoyance than anything else.

To correct the inefficiencies the max range of full damage should be extended to at least match that of the ERPPC, 810m and then drop off as per the present system. This would give the weapon a greater plus side and make the role specific title worthy while bringing back the fear factor for targets and those who chance to carry this fragile beast

[SIN Deacon]

Any true military designed weapon would NEVER include a feature like this. A lot can happen within half a second, and when a sniper get's a chance to take a shot it has to be right there and then (Wind, Target Speed, Bullet Velocity ect). The fact that this weapon has had nearly 500+ years into development and still has to charge in order to fire is ridiculous. The Gauss Rifle on any Battletech field has been a feared weapon. This is a sloppy fix to a problem that still hasn't been solved. It also shows the ignorance of those who balance the game as the only solution to fix problems is to remove or over-correct certain traits. Ultra AC 5 use to fire quicker if you could adhere to cool down (Blizzard for example prevents macro's from being used online in Starcraft 2, you get insta banned for doing it, why not do a soft kick for something similiar?), now it's just a glorified AC 5 (Not worth the double shot because if you jam the weapon, that's a guaranteed loss in DPS and only a small chance at increased DPS). People started to counter with short range applications, nerf damage on SRM's and other weapons. PPC's become the new way to counter brawlers with quick reload time, add even more heat.... We will never get a balanced game, because they can't create a meta game or balance the same weapons that have been in the game for 1.5+ years. There hasn't been a meta game since closed beta in 2012. It's over, GG.

Edited by SIN Deacon, 08 February 2014 - 06:27 AM.

[MavRCK]

My analysis of the Gauss Rifle from an article:

Quote

[color=#000000]If the King of MWO was the AC20 then the Queen was the Gauss Rifle. Alas, like the Bolsheviks, the Queen is dead as is the Gauss Rifle. Heavy damage (15) ballistic weapon that generates low heat (1), usually uses 3 to 4 tons of ammunition (10 shots per ton) in a PUG or Competitive Match making it weigh as much as an AC20 with ammo. Yet, it has the lowest dps of any ballistic save for the machine gun. A charge time of 0.75s plus a to fire time up to 1.5s with a recycle time of 4 secs (not to mention the lag - time to press mouse button tenths of seconds) gives this weapon at-best a DPS of 3.1 and at-worst DPS of 2.5. However, realistically, as this weapon is often clunky to use, one make not fire at all and still incur the recycle penalty. Overall, this weapon’s DPS is on average closer to 2.5 than 3.1. The Gauss Rifle weighs a hefty 15 tons making it the heaviest ballistic weapon in the game and takes up 7 critical slots allowing it to be used in torsos with XL engines. However, this is a serious mistake as the Gauss Rifle suffers from a ridiculously low health of 5 for its 7 critical slots and upon destruction explodes for 20 damage to its location, essentially guaranteeing your XL engine destruction and your death. This reduced-health and fragility was acceptable for arm-mounted gauss rifles but it’s not a worthy trade-off for side torso mounted ballistics. Solo Queue / PUG games are acceptable places to field a mech such as the Misery with Gauss, but no serious competitive team would dare allow this build in competition. [/color]

[color=#000000]Interestingly enough, when used in pairs, dual gauss builds are quite strong as a 30 point hit is significant - to be fair, some teams may even consider this build in competitive play, but again I would strongly argue that a serious competitive team recognizes the fragility of the gauss and the builds (ie. either very slow STD engines or fragile XL engines) that make this build work.[/color]

[color=#000000]It is thus that the single gauss builds suffer the most from the gauss’ clumsy charge mechanic and low dps where ideally, a gauss rifle should be a high dps, low heat, long range weapon that suffers from fragility. In cannon, this weapon is most famously used by Justin Xiang in his upgraded Yenlowang, replacing his father’s trusty AC20 for the gauss rifle. It’s a shame that the lore cannot be supported by such a decision in the online game.[/color]


[color=#000000]Solutions: The gauss rifle will always be a target of accurate opponents. There is no reason to have excessively low health as it takes 7 crit slots (essentially 70% greater chance of being hit by a successful critical hit). As we have discussed with the AC20, the gauss rifle is easily made obsolete by a successful critical hit. Fragility is relative and if the AC20 health is increased, it is with similar logic that the Gauss Rifle’s health be increased - I would suggest 15 health. Furthermore, as a Gauss Rifle explosion can instantly destroy an XL engine health of 15 with its explosion, I would suggest that the gauss rifle explosion not be able to destroy the XL engine unless already damage so reduction this explosion to 10. An alternative would be to allow the Gauss Rifle to explode for 20 damage but can only damage internal structure, components, but not the XL engine. Perhaps difficult to implement but would increase survivability of any mech build putting a gauss rifle in its torso thus encouraging varied and diverse mech builds in MWO. [/color]

[color=#000000]Finally, the gauss rifle needs a significant buff in DPS and perhaps an adjustment to its charge mechanic. I would incorporation the charge time and time to fire into its overall recycle time, thus reducing the recycle time to 2.5s or 2.0s giving it a dps of 3.33 to 3.75. I would also increase its responsiveness but decreasing the charge time to 0.5 sec or even 0.25 seconds and reduce the time to fire from 1.25 secs to 0.5 sec or 0.75 secs respectively (giving a total of 1 sec) - if this is done, then the recycle time should be 3 secs such that the dps is a true 3.75. Ammo should be increased from 10 to 12 shots per ton. Overall, it is single gauss rifles which are suffering from the current state of gauss and a shame that single gauss rifles are not found in more diverse mech builds.[/color]

[colsan]

Rebas Kradd, on 31 January 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Doesn't matter. If only three chassis can handle them, then people will simply flock to those 3 chassis.

Look, if they won't accept that line of reasoning for ECM, I won't accept it for gauss. Beyond that, do you see a lot of Jags and 'phracts with dual gauss? No? There's a reason for that.

Rebas Kradd, on 31 January 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

And if they're smart, they'll position themselves in such a way that overheating and hitboxes aren't a problem - i.e. they'll snipe from 1k away.

That doesn't help agaisnt lights.

Rebas Kradd, on 31 January 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I believe in specialization and even boating, but if it kills brawling, it's a problem. This adjustment is great.

It only kills brawling if you stand out in the open like a moron; why does this game have to be geared for the lowest common denominator of player skill?

[ATao]

Cest7, on 09 December 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Can we have the Gauss DPS back yet?

This. Gauss cooldown should go down to 3.25s to compensate for 0.75 charging delay.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Lasers and PPC's fire, then recharge automatically and keep the charge. AC's and missiles fire, then reload and are ready to fire again. Only gauss for some unknown reason fires, then does nothing until the pilot prompts it, only to lose charge if held to long. Did Wile E Coyote order these gauss from ACME? I almost never see gauss in the game anymore, and after trying to use it myself have pulled it from all mechs after numerous instances where the charge mechanic cost me a shot due to a short target window. Now I just see triple or quad AC5's everywhere, doing 15 to 20 damage every 1.5 seconds. Maybe they will get a charge mechanic too.