37 replies to this topic

[Saiyajin12]

Thing about orion's CT is that like the awesome and some other mechs, other than just being large in general, it also bulges out quite abit so if you twist it chances are it'll still take CT hits and not just arm and side torso hits.

I have pretty much the same experience with my atlai (is that the plural for it?), one or both sides usually destroyed before CT goes. With the orion you pretty much always get CT:d, regardless of dmg spreading.

Although after I stopped playing it like an atlas and falling back abit behind the heavier stuff and running in for flanks and picking off stragglers with the XL engine switch, survivablity has gone up, alot. Just watch it so you don't get caught alone somewhere. Then again that advice is kinda general

[Royalewithcheese]

Krellmane, on 05 September 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

However, I did notice when taking hits to the 6 o'clock, I was taking front CT damage instead of rear. Though, I think that may be more related to HSR's interaction with my client's latency.

I've heard it the other way around too - people are reporting taking rear damage from the front as well. Looks like they screwed up the hitboxes again haha

[Hexenhammer]

We'll know if the CT is to big in a week when the MC variants are up for sale and no one buys them.

[hargneux]

This is a Heavy mech that comes stock with a STD engine. Of course people are shooting the CT.
Correlation does not imply causation.

[Autobot9000]

Shenshan, on 05 September 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Orion might be small, but it is the same size as the kintaro. But with a much wider torso. As to the other mechs, I can't say anything other than the Atlas. I ran 3 versions of the Atlas (DDS, D, RS). and in the 120+ matches with them, I am confident to say that 95% of the time when my Atlases are destroyed, at least one of the side torsos are gone if not both as well as one or both of the arms are gone too before the center torso goes. So regarding your Atlas has a bigger center torso area, I disagree when compare to the rest of the hit locations on the upper body.

And no, I am not skilled enough to do the defensive torso twisting. I have always faced my targets head on

That is a poor comparison with the atlas for two reasons:
1) The side torsos of an Atlas are in relation to its center torso simply larger.
2) Nearly everyone target fires for an Atlases right torso, where the autocannon(s) are. That is simply, because it's (40 armor points or 1-2 alphas) easier to chew through 74 armor instead of 114. With just SRMs left a D-DC can be taken out easily. Who would target fire your Orions side torsos? The second reason is the actual area the side torsos take up.

The one time where an Orions side torso would go down relatively faster in comparison to the Atlases is when you shoot the Orion from the back. The Orions (front) side torso takes up more than 50% of the rear side torsos area. Just load the model and see.

I can see why the Orion's hitboxes are compared to the Kintaro's, but it's not accurate again. The side torso's of the Orion stretch further down to its hip, while the Kintaro's end about half way already and hence are smaller in relation.

My argument however is not the relative size it is the absolute size of the CT, which isn't outstandingly large. If you approach your enemies head on you will get cored in any mech no matter what. I think you've never piloted a light mech, because your matches would end in the first minute - always.

[Watchemkillem]

Saiyajin12, on 04 September 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Nah, it brawls fine against bigger slower mechs that are caught kinda alonish, like if you can get to running circles around an atlas or a stalker, you're pretty much set (don't tell them they can back into a wall). Also it wrecks medium mechs as well as does well against other heavies, just make sure you're not the first one to run in. Lights don't brawl, but eh, my current build does pretty well against those as well. Really enjoying playing my orion since I swapped to the XL360 engine. Scoring anything from 350 to 800+ in dmg per game now. One thing I've noticed, which may just be my imagination, but ELO seems to work better or something, getting alot of matches that are really close instead of one sided curbstomping more than half the time

What's your loadout with the xl360?

[Saiyajin12]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b20d09957edc25a

Can switch to double AC5s if you don't like the UAC5 and AC2 combo. Tried some other builds but got the best results with this one consistently.

Oh and I tried your Christmas build Autobot, can see how it's potential in the right hands, but I just can't get the LRM20s to work for me. Prolly cuz I just suck at using LRMs in general . Might work on that in the future heh.

[Autobot9000]

He yeah, LRMs are currently the way to go, because you can't brwl with the thing at all, thanks to every shot going into the CT no matter what. In absolute terms the CT isn't prticularly huge (s.a.), but once the reticule is over the Orion it hits the CT. Unplayable mech atm - have over 100 matches in it scoring about 400 dps lower than usual.

[fierymountain]

I am currently trying a different built, using the stock 300 engine, 12 double heat sinks, endo steel, max armor, 3 medium lasers, 2 LBX 10s with 90 rounds. it blurs between front line and sniper

[BlacKcuD]

So where is this things weakpoint? It feels like the perfect synergy of Hunchback, Atlas and Cataphract with no weaknesses at all. The only reliable way to down those things seems to be overwhelming insane ridonculous amounts of firepower to its breast. However, if that thing starts turning only the slightest, you are out of luck and have to pump it full of damage before it dies!

Any hints on how to kill those things faster?

[fierymountain]

center torso hits is the biggest weak point because it has a HUGE center torso area. or the missile rack shoulder against the XL engine users.

[LCRacerX]

The Orion's CT is not wide, it's TALL. As tall as the Awesome's is wide. It's eye-level with an Atlas, much taller than any of the other heavies. Note that the side torso's are not necessarily small. They're actually easy to target, but as pointed out, the CT bulges a bit forward, making glancing side shots hit the CT more often than on other mechs.

All in all, it's much more fragile than a Cataphract & only a little more durable than a Catapult.

The other side effect is that the direct-fire hard points are low in comparison to the cockpit. Your POV is very high giving your arm-mounted weapons a low firing angle. You have to unmask a large portion of your mech to fire the weapons. This makes ridge-sniping situations particularly dangerous as you cannot fire even though you see the target. Yet they'll be able to hit you with ease.

It also makes fighting up hill particularly difficult. The slightest bump or rise in the terrain will eat your arm-mounted fire.

The torso ballistic points are higher than the arms, but only by a few degrees.

[Slambot]

I have run about 50 matches in this mech, and while the other two variants i have seem quite durable, the Protector's CT seems to get vaporized very very easily. I have not once ever been killed due to my side torso getting hit. My CT is massive. People know it and the mech is just like the AWS in that regard.

[42and19]

It's actually kinda funny in a depressing sort of way. I've played my protector for around 130 matches. After about 80 or so each with me paying attention to cause of death I noticed the same issue with the CT being hit nearly exclusively so I dropped in an XL and upgraded my weaponry. Now I can saw that I am killed by a side torso destruction nearly every time. It's....maddening.

The protector does feel a lot more squishy than my other orion. Once I get my third I will be more able to give feedback on that.

[NRP]

I've hesitated pulling the trigger on the Protector because of the feedback. On paper, it looks like an ideal heavy mech. But in practice . . . . ?

[Autobot9000]

NRP, on 27 September 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

I've hesitated pulling the trigger on the Protector because of the feedback. On paper, it looks like an ideal heavy mech. But in practice . . . . ?

It's so so. I wouldn't buy it again. You can hit the center torso from the side, similar to a dragon. While on paper that fact doesn't seem significant, however in practice the CT gets cored fast from nearly all angles. On the other hand it makes XLs attractive, almost as attractive as on catapults.
The problem with the particular protector then is a consequence of the above: Running no XL makes the chassis perform poor. Running an XL engine on the other hand narrows your choices for the dual ballistic slots down to a combination of AC2s, AC5s, but certainly 2 U/AC5 or an AC20 is not an option. I have experimented with a combination of AC5 and U/AC5 (projectile speed is the same here), but so far not quite getting the results from it. The question then is: Why get a protector in the first place? The other Orion variants have a single ballistic and often more attractive remaining hardpoints. The protectors key advantage is really the double ballistic. I own the K and VA variants too - their hardpoints are easier to use. I would advise to try a free Orion chassis first to get a feeling for how bad the CT trouble is. If you have a 350XL lying around get that ready for your first Orion.

Edited by Autobot9000, 27 September 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[NRP]

Thanks for the feedback.

[Marmon Rzohr]

I find the Orion does get CT destroyed in about 80-85% of cases. However I'm usually able to spread damage to the side torsi quite reliably. Although you have to be quick because you need a full 90 degree rotation to obscure the CT hitbox.

(the tower sticking above the mech is the CT as well, but it's quite small, so not a huge factor)

It seems like a strange mix of the Cat and the Jager. The CT is big and a primary target, but the STs are quite targetable from the front and respective sides. It seems to me that it needs an adjustment, especailly if it's going to contend with the Cataphract in serious play, but it's not a bad mech.