265 replies to this topic

[SuriViruS]

Well in the novel in which the gauss is introduced, it's said the gauss cosumes a lot of energy. Meaning a double-gauss-shot might shutdown some mechs.
Whereas energy has not a value in MWO, maybe that's how they wanted to adjust it.

But who knows what PGI is up to at all

The Boz, on 29 September 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Gauss is fine now.

empty statement

The Boz, on 30 September 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Right, that's what I meant. Thanks.

To whom of the posts - above yours - do you agree?

[MisterPlanetarian]

The only problem the Gauss has is the low cycle time. It would be way to easy to use without the charge up, and it really needed the projectile speed increase. I typically see 700 damage games easily if I get to spend most of my ammo. Give the Gauss a 3 second recycletime and It's just fine imo.

[xMEPHISTOx]

While not what they were they are still okay to use and if one is patient and takes the time to get the timing down and sets weapons groups right it can still be a very useful weapon in conjunction with erppc/ppc's. I even on occasion see the dual gauss setups running about however not on the traditional k2 but now on 3d's.

[EmperorMyrf]

The GR is fine. Personally, the modifications made to the GR caused my accuracy with it to rise about 5% within a matter of a few days, making it my 3rd most accurate weapon short of only the SSRM2 and the AC/20.

The combination of both high damage and long range more than make up for its numerous downsides, and from a mathematical standpoint it is one of the (if not the) best weapons in the game in terms of how you spend your tonnage. Once you get used to the delay you will rarely be inconvenienced by it, though it will still serve its purpose of decoupling it from other weapons.

Edited by EmperorMyrf, 08 October 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[AC]

The gauss mechanic wouldn't be needed at all if PGI had implemented a slightly more restrictive weapons slot system from the start. Not every mech was designed/or should carry a gauss rifle. Heck, there were even mechs that were designed AROUND the gauss rifle. Hollander and Hollander II come to mind. Those mechs have no purpose if you can gauss up a Raven or Cicada though. I am starting to lose interest because all the mechs are becoming identical.

[Krivvan]

AC, on 08 October 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

The gauss mechanic wouldn't be needed at all if PGI had implemented a slightly more restrictive weapons slot system from the start. Not every mech was designed/or should carry a gauss rifle. Heck, there were even mechs that were designed AROUND the gauss rifle. Hollander and Hollander II come to mind. Those mechs have no purpose if you can gauss up a Raven or Cicada though. I am starting to lose interest because all the mechs are becoming identical.

I'd rather have identical mechs than having even fewer variants that are viable.

[Lightfoot]

I can't use the Gauss Rifle anymore. The charge-up/discharge mechanic is for Mouse-users only who can drag-click the Gauss around, but you can't drag-click with a joystick, which is how I play MWO.

I could work it if it took 5-10 seconds to discharge (a full Battletech turn). It would still require charging up so it would still have some difficulty at close range which was the reason for the nerf, but you could aim it again.

Right now the Gauss Rifle is a sniper weapon (MWO's designation) that can't be aimed, so you are kidding yourself if you think this nerf adds some sort of RP value to the game or the Gauss Rifle. Sniper aiming means you have at least 5-10 seconds to make the shot, not spray rounds out in 1.5 seconds windows.

[SuriViruS]

AC, on 08 October 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

[...] I am starting to lose interest because all the mechs are becoming identical.

Damn, You're right. We use them like Starleague-Omnimechs.
I assume even in the golden ages, no one could simply replace an AC/whatever with a GR.

Lightfoot, on 08 October 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

I could work it if it took 5-10 seconds to discharge (a full Battletech turn). It would still require charging up so it would still have some difficulty at close range which was the reason for the nerf, but you could aim it again.

That would be a way to do it. I still prefer the 1-click-option, with delay.
Let's say 1-1.5 sec charge, instant fire with no way to abort,1.5-4 sec. reload.

Well I guess there are some more ways to manage the gauss-firesequence.

I dont use it atm

Edited by SuriViruS, 08 October 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[Samziel]

Usually game is balanced by either nerfing overpowered or buffing underpowered. Happends to be that PGI nerfs balanced weapons instead of buffing underpowered.

[Krivvan]

Samziel, on 09 October 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Usually game is balanced by either nerfing overpowered or buffing underpowered. Happends to be that PGI nerfs balanced weapons instead of buffing underpowered.

There is a very good reason for that though. It's easy to say that you should always buff underpowered stuff in a game like Starcraft, but here they want to preserve a shooter where you don't die instantly.

[Karl Streiger]

Samziel, on 09 October 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Usually game

usually multiplayer games doesn't have configurable loadouts in a way MWO has.
there a hundreds of combinations.

you can say ER-PPC suck - buff them...well when they are work acceptable on a heavy Mech they may be absolute overpowered on a Cicada

the gauss buff wouldn't bee needed when the only chassis with Gauss would have been, the AS7-K, the HGN-732, the Victor K and the two Premiums....would be curious if you would still say the Gauss was perfectly balanced when you scream P2W because of HM and Misery.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 09 October 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[rolly]

Quote

name='Armace' post='2736687' timestamp='1378749647']
(Truncated Quote to the save sanity of others)
When I played Mechwarrior 4, Mad Cat mk II with dual Gauss Rifles ...But let's be realistic:

- with 15 tons of weight (EXCLUDING AMMO!!!) Gauss Rifle is already THE HEAVIEST weapon in this game, heavier, bigger and weaker than dual ER PPC ...
- reload time used to be 4 seconds, additional 0.75s of charging up before each shot makes it THE SLOWEST weapon in the game, ex aequo with LRM20.
- it can run out of ammo (of which there is only 10 rounds/ton, btw).
- it can explode after being hit (WTF?!?).

So, summing up - ...my emotional attachment ...wasn't really that good, ...You had practically one shot before long reloading, bullet travels slower, than PPC's blast, and its humongous size...

...

[size=4]

*gasp* we have to wait 4.75 seconds for a portable! electro-magnetic rail gun! to charge up and dole out 15 damage for virtually no heat. The horror. (As opposed to the 20 heat and possible 30 heat of dual ERPPCs)

The difference is in MW4 the wait wasn't apparent. Here you actually have to think, project, and estimate then be methodical about using it.

Gun exploding? = Capacitors. Have you ever set fire or punctured a Lithium Polymer battery? Imagine a 1 ton super high capacity Lithium Polymer battery being hit by a terawatt laser or cannon round. I'm sure you get the picture.

Bullet delay? = As far as I've seen its near nil, with minimal deflection OR bullet drop, considering its a 125kg steel slug travelling at or near the sound barrier over 2/3rds of a kilometer. I'll take that happily.

And to quote you, you said "lets be realistic"...

"BUT NOW?!? When during fight, in the heat of a battle you must focus on target's position and motion across bumpy terrain, correct it accordingly to your position own and movement, remember about bullet delay in order to predict place of impact, but now you additionally have to consider anticipation for this short gap of time, when charged weapon is ready to shoot, and then, during this instance you have to make all the calculations to point your crosshair, release mouse button and pray, because hitting the opponent became nothing short of a miracle!!! THIS IS INSANE!!!"

Sorry to intrude on your realism rant, but that's game mechanics. Technically there is no realism in MW since its sci-fi. On top of that; everything you just described above is called "gun deflection". People have been doing it, and doing it quite well since the invention of the slingshot, bow, firearm, airplane, or the artillery piece.

Thank you for your post and your arguments. In my opinion the Gauss rifle is perfectly fine if not even more iconic now with the charge time. I just wish for the sonic boom to be added.

Edited by rolly, 09 October 2013 - 05:47 AM.

[rolly]

Summing up all the arguments I've seen here.

If you're not patient and DO NOT like a bit of a learning curve. Don't use the gauss.
If you're having difficulty with gun deflection. Don't use the gauss.
If you like snapfiring? Or close combat? Don't use the gauss.

If your play style is methodical, sniping, ambushing or being fire support. Use the gauss.
If you like a heat efficient weapon that hits like a mack truck. Use the gauss.
If you like a challenge and finesse in using your weapons. Use the gauss.

Btw - its not a 5-10 second lead time to setup a gauss shot. More like 1-3. Also you can chain a gauss, it just has to be used as the opener or closer of a strike.

The gauss is absolutely fine. Thank you PGI for your awesomeness. This wep is so canon. The only thing that would make it dreamy to use would be the sonic boom. If we can have that, it would be the cherry on top.

Edited by rolly, 09 October 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

I think part of the issue is that a LOT of builds were utilizing the gauss in a torso slot instead of an AC20 for the reduction in heat.

I don't use gauss on as many of my builds, but on some, particularly my dragonslayer sniper, where it's in an articulated arm, it's still totally viable for me, and nets me at least 500 a round, and several kills. It's harder to brawl with, but not impossible, but shines at range, playing support sniper.

[Zyllos]

I think people are too used to the idea that if you can't hit the same place multiple times with a weapon, then it's garbage.

While technically true, it's an existence that has been perpetuated since the beginning of MechWarrior and needs to be stomped out.

If you hit your target, which is not that hard with the Gauss Rifle, then consider that a win. SSRMs, SRMs, LBX, and to a smaller extent, LRMs, already do this. Every other weapon needs to do this now.

[rolly]

Krivvan, on 08 October 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

I'd rather have identical mechs than having even fewer variants that are viable.

Well then you're likely playing the wrong game since MWO stems from Battletech and Battletech is all about the classes, types and variants of mechs. Some good, some bad, some specialized, others that are terrible. Every other MW title has had the variety.

[SuriViruS]

rolly, on 09 October 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

The gauss is absolutely fine. Thank you PGI for your awesomeness. This wep is so canon. The only thing that would make it dreamy to use would be the sonic boom. If we can have that, it would be the cherry on top.

If the GR is as canon as you argue, maybe you could tell us where to find information about the actual click-hold-release-firemechanism.

Edited by SuriViruS, 09 October 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[rolly]

SuriViruS, on 09 October 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

If the GR is as canon as you argue, maybe you could tell us where to find information about the actual click-hold-release-firemechanism.

In numerous novels much more in the physical design of such a weapon it requires a capacitor to store up the energy to charge the coils/rails. When they do describe it, its noted that the mechwarrior sees the GR ready to fire and its capacitors charged.

PGI has incorporated this into the game as a click-hold-release. Whether its automated by computer or in-game readied by the pilot the effect is the same. At some point the user would need to switch on these capacitors. In this case PGI has chosen to make the end-user control the charge up. Not only does it conveniently encourage intelligent usage of the weapon, but it also is in line with how an actual Gauss Rifle/Coil Gun is fired. Whats even better is that it now gives the pilot the ability to hold fire if the shot is not a good one.
It also have the added benefit of curbing gauss boating and encouraging tactical use of the weapon, not just shooty point and click.

You're more than welcome to comb through the bibliography appended to Sarna.net or read the 20+ years worth of novels/short stories and articles. I have provided the essential references to adequately answer your question.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle

'"However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, "

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Gauss_Rifle

"Power is supplied to the electromagnet from some sort of fast discharge storage device, typically a battery[or high-capacity high voltage capacitors designed for fast energy discharge"

Edited by rolly, 09 October 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[AC]

AC, on 08 October 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

The gauss mechanic wouldn't be needed at all if PGI had implemented a slightly more restrictive weapons slot system from the start. Not every mech was designed/or should carry a gauss rifle. Heck, there were even mechs that were designed AROUND the gauss rifle. Hollander and Hollander II come to mind. Those mechs have no purpose if you can gauss up a Raven or Cicada though. I am starting to lose interest because all the mechs are becoming identical.

Krivvan, on 08 October 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

I'd rather have identical mechs than having even fewer variants that are viable.

That is all in the eye of the beholder though. There will always be more popular chassis, just like today, but it is possible to make all of them viable with restricted weapons slots. In every iteration of mechwarrior today, there were less popular and more popular chassis, but all of them still got used. Just because you wouldn't like a certain variant, doesn't mean that other person wouldn't prefer it.

[Nryrony]

I have an easy solution for the Gauss. Give it a basic firing delay - like the beta ballistics. roughly 0,5 secs, but without the need to "confirm" the shot like now.

It would make the Gauss handling a bit easier. Especially if you consider that a lot of mechs simply equip them as an additional weapon and not as the main weapon system.