265 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

ShadowbaneX, on 11 October 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Only thing Gauss really needs is a .75 reduction on it's cool down to compensate for the extra .75 seconds needed to charge the thing up.

Exactly what I've been thinking.

I can make gauss work as is, though I'm pretty sure the mechanism PGI's put in place gets 'tweaky' in lag situations, as there's many a time I "KNOW" I haven't held the trigger so long it should discharge, but it does, and sometimes it discharges AFTER I've let go of the trigger, WITHOUT firing a shot. That kind of **** is going to have me sending bills to PGI for the mice that get destroyed through frustration and having to crush the expletive trigger button.

They pretty much doubled the skill requirement for anyone NOT using scripts.

That's fine and all, but, with the 'randomness' of the trigger mechanism and the lack of chain fire with the low ammo/ton ratio, high weight, large crit slot usage, and penchant for blowing up, if you're only equipping ONE on your 'mech, the risk v reward for carrying one is NOT AT ALL worth it.

Also note: This stupid weapon blows up when it's not possible for it to charge up. I recently was in a match where I ran out of ammo, it got hit, and I died due to "Ammo Explosion".

#1 - There was no f'ing ammo.
#2 - It wasn't charged because of #1.

I call ******** on that, and that's a bug that also needs to be fixed.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 October 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[Weztside]

qwerty878787, on 06 September 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Why is there a charge up for the Gauss? Makes it take too long to use unless the guy you aiming at is standing still. Now the AC's are better than the gauss because you don't have to charge them up. They need to get rid of the charge up on the gauss. It's not worth having anymore

If you really think this you need to practice with the Gauss some more. It's not very difficult to use if you have a basic sense of timing. It's actually more beneficial now. The round travels so much quicker than before. Now, you don't have to lead your target at all. As long as you time the charge up correctly the shot will hit exactly on the cross hair. Also, The charge up mechanic allows you to conserve ammo by holding a shot that you can no longer make. People aren't happy that PGI has made this a hard weapon to use because they aren't good enough to use it. Stow the complaints.

[Dimento Graven]

Weztside, on 14 October 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

...
Now, you don't have to lead your target at all. As long as you time the charge up correctly the shot will hit exactly on the cross hair.
...

LOL! Now who 'thinks' something that indicated they 'need more practice'?

The only targets you don't need to lead are stationary ones. The round is fast, but still not fast enough it travels 1800+ meters "instantaneously" to land 'exactly' on the cross hairs of your target...

That's either a gross exaggeration, OR, a bit of ignorance on your part my friend.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 October 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Aegic]

I think Gauss is working as intended for the most part but could use some tweaking on charge time rules.

I think it should be primarily used as a long range sniping weapon.

I think it SHOULD have a chance to blow up.

If you have issues with it exploding you should research into adding different components in the same hardpoint to buffer/lower your chances of it being hit. Even one heatsink in the same hardpoint will lower the chance of a shot hitting your rifle by 50%

With that being said, I use 2 with an XL engine on my JM6-S and 5 tons of ammo and can usually pull 300+ damage a match. Dont brawl with a Gauss Rifle, just like you wouldnt brawl with an LRM launcher or PPC.

[Dimento Graven]

Aegic, on 14 October 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

...
I think it SHOULD have a chance to blow up.

If you have issues with it exploding you should research into adding different components in the same hardpoint to buffer/lower your chances of it being hit.
...

It should have a chance to blow up, when there's ammo so that the rifle itself is charged.

With no ammo, and/or a freshly discharged weapon, there's no 'charge' to explode, it is de facto a 20 ton paper weight.

[DC1]

Switch to A/C10s and hope that they undo the undeniable DPS nerf. Nuff said.

[Aegic]

Dimento Graven, on 14 October 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

It should have a chance to blow up, when there's ammo so that the rifle itself is charged.

With no ammo, and/or a freshly discharged weapon, there's no 'charge' to explode, it is de facto a 20 ton paper weight.

Taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle

Quote

Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes.

The issue most people are having is that there is now a charge up time where according to TT there is no such thing. I feel this is one of the things that we should be flexible with since first and foremost MWO is a game that needs to be balanced. I feel the "Allowable" charge time needs to be increased a bit however the mechanic of exploding Gauss rifles is still ok.

You get a very hard hitting long range accurate no heat generating weapon that uses non explosive ammo.

It is heavy, has a good chance to explode, and now has a short charge time. Sounds fair to me.

Edited by Aegic, 14 October 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Aegic, on 14 October 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle


The issue most people are having is that there is now a charge up time where according to TT there is no such thing. I feel this is one of the things that we should be flexible with since first and foremost MWO is a game that needs to be balanced. I feel the "Allowable" charge time needs to be increased a bit however the mechanic of exploding Gauss rifles is still ok.

You get a very hard hitting long range accurate no heat generating weapon that uses non explosive ammo.

It is heavy, has a good chance to explode, and now has a short charge time. Sounds fair to me.

Why should it explode if it isn't "charged up?" And yes, it still is possible to brawl with a Gauss if you time your chargeups right.

[Dimento Graven]

Aegic, on 14 October 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle


The issue most people are having is that there is now a charge up time where according to TT there is no such thing. I feel this is one of the things that we should be flexible with since first and foremost MWO is a game that needs to be balanced. I feel the "Allowable" charge time needs to be increased a bit however the mechanic of exploding Gauss rifles is still ok.

You get a very hard hitting long range accurate no heat generating weapon that uses non explosive ammo.

It is heavy, has a good chance to explode, and now has a short charge time. Sounds fair to me.

Look, I get what you're saying, and "IF" the MWO gauss rifle worked like the Sarna gauss rifle I would be in total agreement with you. As it is, I really don't care what Sarna says, as you yourself indicate, the gauss in Sarna, is not the gauss in MWO.

The fact that an AMMO-LESS, ie: I shot all my damn ammo, there ain't no more, weapon "blows" up is stupid.

It's also stupid even based off of the Sarna description (not that it really matters, but):

Quote

However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion

So again, if you've JUST SHOT your gauss, it's discharged, until it's charged, there's NO STORED ENERGY TO EXPLODE.

If it's not loaded, it's NOT CHARGED, therefore there's NO STORED ENERGY TO EXPLODE.

It's that point along with all the other detrimental ones mentioned earlier that tend to upset me.

[Aegic]

Lyoto Machida, on 14 October 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

And yes, it still is possible to brawl with a Gauss if you time your chargeups right.

Fight and get kills up close? Yes.

Brawl? I would disagree. An actual Brawler would not use a Gauss Rifle or an XL engine.

Dimento Graven, on 14 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

As it is, I really don't care what Sarna says, as you yourself indicate, the gauss in Sarna, is not the gauss in MWO.

Since you dont care I really cant change your mind.

MWO is a competitive game that needs to be balanced and uses TT rules (which Sarna follows) as guidelines. There are a number of things that PGI has already done in the interest of balance. Per TT lasers do all of their damage instantly. Since that would be overpowered (and not as cool to look at) PGI made them do damage over time.

THAT is much more massive of a change than adding a charge timer to your Gauss Rifle.

If it bothers you that much imagine there is a large capacitor inside which is always charged and the charge up time is only the amount of time it takes to shunt power to the actual magnets that jet along your watermelon sized projectile.

Get upset if you want, I am only expressing my opinion and that I am still able to use the weapon effectively. I just dont brawl with it and never have. If I have one on a mech that mech will not be one I keep on the front lines if at all possible.

[Dimento Graven]

Aegic, on 14 October 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

...
THAT is much more massive of a change than adding a charge timer to your Gauss Rifle.
...

Obvious a matter of opinion there.

Quote

If it bothers you that much imagine there is a large capacitor inside which is always charged and the charge up time is only the amount of time it takes to shunt power to the actual magnets that jet along your watermelon sized projectile.

Ok, so why would the system charge a capacitor for a weapon that no longer has ammo to fire?

How does the system somehow require ZERO time to shunt power to the capacitor, after having fired the shot, yet require MORE than ZERO time to charge the magnets.

None of it makes 'logical' sense when looked at in detail.

You have the charge time of the capacitor, and you have charge time of magnets. If the weapon is hit before the charge time of the capacitor reaches full charge, the resulting explosion should only match the percentage charge. After all, LRM/SRM/AC ammo explosions don't occur with zero ammo, nor do they do FULL damage when the ammo location that'***** is less than 100% full.

Why must gauss suffer so many tertiary after affects.

Loading one gauss is less effective than loading multiple PPC's/AC's/ER LASERS, given the DPS/CRIT SLOT/AMMO PER TON calcs.

The few advantages it has is single concentrated hit location, low heat, extended range. In skilled hands it can be lethal, absolutely.

Unfortunately the skilled people are being punished because unskilled people out number them and tend to be quite bitchy in the forums. These same unskilled loud mouths get to enjoy all the other weapons that don't require the same skill, namely streaks, LRMs, lasers, MG's, flamers, and AC's.

If the ammo explosion when completely empty and discharged didn't exist, I'd live with the extra superfluous charge, however, it does exist, and therefore the weapon has been given

Quote

Get upset if you want, I am only expressing my opinion and that I am still able to use the weapon effectively.

I wasn't upset at your opinion, no matter how foolish or wrong that it is, I'm upset with the situation where the weapon gets nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, but all the other broken pieces of it don't get fixed.

Quote

I just dont brawl with it and never have. If I have one on a mech that mech will not be one I keep on the front lines if at all possible.

Hmmm, that let's us know the skill level at which you utilize it.

They can be used for brawling, but it takes an extreme amount of skill to do so.

[Aegic]

Dimento Graven, on 14 October 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Obvious a matter of opinion there.

Ok, so why would the system charge a capacitor for a weapon that no longer has ammo to fire?

How does the system somehow require ZERO time to shunt power to the capacitor, after having fired the shot, yet require MORE than ZERO time to charge the magnets.

None of it makes 'logical' sense when looked at in detail.

You have the charge time of the capacitor, and you have charge time of magnets. If the weapon is hit before the charge time of the capacitor reaches full charge, the resulting explosion should only match the percentage charge. After all, LRM/SRM/AC ammo explosions don't occur with zero ammo, nor do they do FULL damage when the ammo location that'***** is less than 100% full.

Why must gauss suffer so many tertiary after affects.

Loading one gauss is less effective than loading multiple PPC's/AC's/ER LASERS, given the DPS/CRIT SLOT/AMMO PER TON calcs.

The few advantages it has is single concentrated hit location, low heat, extended range. In skilled hands it can be lethal, absolutely.

Unfortunately the skilled people are being punished because unskilled people out number them and tend to be quite bitchy in the forums. These same unskilled loud mouths get to enjoy all the other weapons that don't require the same skill, namely streaks, LRMs, lasers, MG's, flamers, and AC's.

If the ammo explosion when completely empty and discharged didn't exist, I'd live with the extra superfluous charge, however, it does exist, and therefore the weapon has been given


I wasn't upset at your opinion, no matter how foolish or wrong that it is, I'm upset with the situation where the weapon gets nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, but all the other broken pieces of it don't get fixed.

Hmmm, that let's us know the skill level at which you utilize it.

They can be used for brawling, but it takes an extreme amount of skill to do so.

LOL

[Cest7]

0.49 nerf in DPS?

Laaaaaaaame

[Weztside]

Dimento Graven, on 14 October 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

LOL! Now who 'thinks' something that indicated they 'need more practice'?

The only targets you don't need to lead are stationary ones. The round is fast, but still not fast enough it travels 1800+ meters "instantaneously" to land 'exactly' on the cross hairs of your target...

That's either a gross exaggeration, OR, a bit of ignorance on your part my friend.

So you're going to complain about my adverb usage? I'm sorry. I'll choose them more carefully from now on. Thanks for not letting me slip up. Good looking out.

[Dimento Graven]

Weztside, on 14 October 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

So you're going to complain about my adverb usage? I'm sorry. I'll choose them more carefully from now on. Thanks for not letting me slip up. Good looking out.

I see you've practiced missing the point. I had no problem with your grammar, it was the statement:

Weztside, on 14 October 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

...
Now, you don't have to lead your target at all. As long as you time the charge up correctly the shot will hit exactly on the cross hair.
...

With that first sentence you decided to let yourself be distracted with, the next sentences contained the meat of my point:

Quote

...
The only targets you don't need to lead are stationary ones. The round is fast, but still not fast enough it travels 1800+ meters "instantaneously" to land 'exactly' on the cross hairs of your target...

That's either a gross exaggeration, OR, a bit of ignorance on your part my friend.

Get it? You firmly stated that you don't have to lead targets when using gauss, and that's a load of bull. Anyone using the gauss rifle even semi-regularly knows you still have to lead moving targets. Maybe the lead time is a bit less with the higher speed, but, it's still not instantaneous.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 15 October 2013 - 08:01 AM.

[Sephlock]

[SuriViruS]

Edited by SuriViruS, 17 October 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Sephlock]

SuriViruS, on 17 October 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

NOOOOO! What did that post say?!

[General Taskeen]

Aegic, on 14 October 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

The issue most people are having is that there is now a charge up time where according to TT there is no such thing.

Hell, why use TT an example?

In no Mech Warrior game did Gauss have a charge up.

[DoktorVivi]

General Taskeen, on 17 October 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Hell, why use TT an example?

In no Mech Warrior game did Gauss have a charge up.

That should not necessarily matter. The game should be balanced against itself, not other games. Use other games / TT as a guideline only, then evolve it from there.

Anyway, as has been said, the charge up to the Gauss Rifle could easily be an abstract way of implementing the accuracy penalty of using a Gauss Rifle at close range in TT. It's harder to hit the close in mechs because of the charge up. Since most people are opposed to any sort of cone of fire / random hit mechanic, this is what we get.

Edited by DoktorVivi, 17 October 2013 - 02:17 PM.