265 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

DavidHurricane, on 04 January 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

If you are referring to the Gauss, the Gauss ammo isn't explosive. If you are referring to any other weapon, then yes, only the loaded weapon/weapon ammo should explode.

Here it is logically:
The weapon never charges, UNTIL, it is reloaded.
The weapon CAN NOT be charged, UNTIL, it is reloaded.
If there is no ammo, the weapon cannot be reloaded.
If the weapon cannot be reloaded, it cannot be charged.
If it cannot be charged, IT SHOULD NOT BLOW UP WHEN DAMAGED.

[Dimento Graven]

Allen Ward, on 04 January 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Lasers ain't pinpoint.
Gauss remains broken and PGI ignores this.

????

I was watching my younger brother with his 8 ML hunchie, every time he alpha'd, all 8, nearly EVERY single time, hit the exact same spot.

Also, those that claim dual gauss has 'instant' pin point convergence show their EXTREME ignorance of the weapon.

Convergence isn't instant, and it's not automatic, and it's NOT guaranteed. If that were the case, there'd be a LOT of instantly dead Spiders, Ravens, Locusts, Jenners, Commandos, and Cicadas, where, if my twin gauss hit at the exact same spot 100% of the time, would be extremely dead.

Switching between close range and far range targets quickly also 'corrupts' convergence, and you have to wait a second or two, to HOPE both rounds will land on the same spot. AT BEST, the current mechanic helps ensure a higher chance of pin point convergence due to the .75 second delay we have to endure before we can fire the weapon.

That .75 seconds helps allow the convergence mechanism to bring both barrels into alignment.

I'm all for removing the charge component to decrease the instances of pin point convergence.

[990Dreams]

Dimento Graven, on 04 January 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Here it is logically:
The weapon never charges, UNTIL, it is reloaded.***
The weapon CAN NOT be charged, UNTIL, it is reloaded.*
If there is no ammo, the weapon cannot be reloaded.**
If the weapon cannot be reloaded, it cannot be charged.*
If it cannot be charged, IT SHOULD NOT BLOW UP WHEN DAMAGED.**

*Yes, that is a given
**Duh
***The weapon can't charge until it is reloaded. Then the charging options I offered should come into effect (auto charge is on then auto charge, etc.)

Edited by DavidHurricane, 04 January 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[Amsro]

Lightfoot, on 04 January 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

No thanks. I do okay with just a joystick and I like the immersion into the game. I don't use a Gauss Rifle anymore because I can't do the drag-click-release mechanic with a Joystick. You may run your throttle and turn axis with a joystick, but you still have a mouse to aim the Gauss with.

Yeah I still have the mouse to aim with and its makes the Gauss borderline OP, there isn't a mech I can't hit and the speed is tremendous while having great range and damage.

Immersion doesn't = control setup. If you can more effective with a more accurate aiming setup why not use it? Self-gimping for nostalgia is odd. But then everyone has their reasons!

Quote

I don't need the Gauss Rifle anyway. I know PGI can't accept that the Gauss Rifle has the lowest DPS/ payload ton required, but it is and is the worst ballistic in MWO except for it's range and redeeming damage spike. That counts for something, but it's not the Wonder Warthog weapon of MechWarrior that many like to believe it is.

Many believe so because for them the Gauss Rifle is a Wonder Warthog weapon. Even just a single Gauss is deadly on my mechs. (only my Muromets uses dual Gauss)

Quote

I am doing an experiment right now where I only use weapons on my mech that PGI has not buried in heat nerfs or scuttled like the Gauss and I have won 26 out of the last 36 games and had a 12 game win streak and I am on a 5 game win streak now. It's not rocket science or anything, but, no Gauss required.

I like your theory, but in the end Ghost Heat is comical and doesn't even stop the builds its supposed to nerf.

I tend to do the complete opposite and build mechs to my playing style regardless of Ghost Heat.

Quote

I have always felt the Gauss was situational anyway and if it has a 25-30% longer recharge than the AC20 class it's only suited for long range maps, if you know what map you are headed too, that is.

Long or Close range matters not for me, I can pick apart the mech I'm fighting regardless. Close range just means cockpit shots.

[rolly]

I use to think that this was a new challenge to relearn how the Gauss rifle is used. I wanted to be positive and try and adapt to its use. I am now recanting that belief and retract all support of the change.

The charge up time simply kills the weapon as a first strike main weapon of choice. Where as every other heavy weapon remains intact. The reality is that the current way this game is developing, the gauss rifle is now a secondary weapon that weighs an awful lot.

Dear PGI, please reconsider this balancing tweak. Its simply kills the effective use and literally the fun of owning a gauss rifle if you unable to effectively use it roughly 50% of the time.

Mechs like Highlander were famous for having a Gauss rifle as an awesome standoff heavy weapon. Now its a shadow of its former self that hampers players choosing to use the weapon. This is mainly due to every other weapon in this game having no complex issues with firing. Only LRM's and Streaks are the only other weapons that have a two-step firing process.

Sniping isn't as practical as proposed due to the low powered zoom, (ie. children's toy binoculars have even more powerful settings and with crisper resolution) and being out-ranged by other more useful damage dealing weapons. Why use a gauss rifle as a sniping support weapon - like you propose the change was for; when a ER LL will work more effectively, fire more consistently? In every other iteration of MW, a gauss simply had a longer reload time to emphasize the nature of their use. If its worked for all other versions, why wouldn't it work here? Its simply trying to reinvent the wheel.

This leaves brawling which only leaves the CT even more exposed to enemy fire.

I hate to use the word buts having a Gauss rifle is actually more of a liability to myself and my teams effectiveness. Dare I say "not competitive".

Please return it back to its former use or if not then consider putting two-step firing processes for every other main weapon.

[DerMaulwurf]

I used to defend the Gauss Rifle, as I was able to perform well enough with it. After playing matches with the alternatives - especially dual Ac5 - I have changed that assessment.

Even if one accepts that the Gauss Rifle should be a long range specialist (Why should it be?), the advantage in long range performance isn't nearly large enough to offset the drawbacks in everything else.

The charge mechanic has not only made aiming more clunky, it has also pretty much killed the dps-per-ton ratio. Which makes it perform far below the required cost in weight in any engagement that isn't peaking and ducking back into cover. And for such a hyper-specialized weapons the advantage on it's own home ground isn't large enough to offset the shortcomings.

The Gauss Rifle is the weapon with the most time and damaged logged in my stats. But that won't stay that way, as they've limited it's viability too broadly, because of one quite specific problem (combining it with multiple PPCs).

[SamsungNinja]

I'm not a troll. I'm not trying to **** anyone off.

That being said, I really like the charge-up on Gauss now. It makes it a real challenge to use, and there's now a down-side for all its advantages. Spare me the weight/ammo arguments. They weren't really downsides and were easily overcome. Gauss generates no heat, is fast as balls, and really effs up 'mechs. When it was as easy as clicking on what you wanted to die and watching it explode, it was a cheese weapon.

Now when I run a good match with Gauss and come out with top match score, top damage, and the most kills, and a boat load of assists, I know that I was the best player on my team, and it wasn't due to some cheesy build. I'm using the most challenging weapon to pop a shot with, and the payoff is delicious.

When people complain they ruined Gauss, I smile. What they did is separate the men from the boys. There's now more thinking required, for this weapon, in this thinking man's shooter.

Edit: To clarify, my Gauss 'mech doesn't have JJs, so no--I'm not a poptart.

Edited by SamsungNinja, 13 January 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

For the heck of it, I have gone back to the cheese Dual Gauss Catapult K2 just for something different. I like the idea of having different mechs with different loadouts and playstyles. Since I have a dual UA/C5/A/C10 Ilya, I decided to go a bit of a different route with the K2 and ditched my dual A/C10 loadout.

This is the first time I have really tried to use the Gauss post nerf and I admit that the weapon is a bit frustrating. I over charge it somewhat frequently and I am affraid that I often fire it before it is at it's maximum charge.

Still, depsite all of that, it is a different mechanic that I don't mind playing with. I do want to get better with it because when it works, it inflicts some great damage. It is not unusual for me to have 600+ damage matches with it.

Overall, the gauss is tricky to use. It is best against heavies and assaults due to their slower movement speed (lights especially are a bear to hit with the charge time). I think with practice, I could be good with this gun. I would like a tiny bit longer max charge time before overcharge, or a max charge tone that is more distinct.

Still, the gun isn't easy to use, but it is rewarding when things go right. I actually kind of like it...when I am not cursing the screen when I overcharge.

[Rhaythe]

11 pages? Yeesh.

IMO: Gauss requires a little bit of skill to use properly now. God forbid.

[NRP]

I think PGI went too far with gauss "balancing", just like they went too far with PPC "balancing". Ruined individual weapons because of boating. They "fixed" the wrong thing.

I no longer use the gauss myself, and I only ever see dual gauss "specialist" builds these days. It's kind of ironic that high pinpoint alpha sniper builds prompted the gauss nerf, yet there are more dual gauss setups running now than there were before.

[Hammerhai]

Well ...

Ballistics are the King of the Battlefield, and Gauss was the Emperor of those. The Charge up time was introduced to reduce High Alpha play, by desynchronising alphas.

The point the whiners miss that the damage Ballistics do is all pinpoint, unlike in Tabletop. So it becomes very, very deadly esp as it never had a minimum range like the PPC.

Actually, all that happened is that the cheesers now fire PPC's and Ballistics of similar muzzle velocity together. So just copy the current cheese builds, and you guys can instagib to hearts' content.

Again, this is a poor attempt to have an easier time of ultra high pinpoint alphas.
And NOBODY mentioned just how effin low the heat this weapon generates IS, for what it does.

By all means discuss the pros and cons, but lets stop the "I wants teh easymode" qq. Drive a light, and you will see there are plenty of people still legging you with ease. In fact the Cicada, to survive, now needs to carry full leg armour and a minimum of 165 points of armour and up. So stop trying to manipulate the facts, gents.

[MeiSooHaityu]

NRP, on 13 January 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

I no longer use the gauss myself, and I only ever see dual gauss "specialist" builds these days. It's kind of ironic that high pinpoint alpha sniper builds prompted the gauss nerf, yet there are more dual gauss setups running now than there were before.

I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I only run Gauss in a dual Gauss mech is because I can't concentrate on multiple fire groups (maintaining DPS) while I am concentrating on the charge mechanic of the Gauss.

The gun was nerfed that way intentionally to stop the Gauss/PPC alpha stirke, but on the down side, it hurts using it in rotation with other guns (for me anyway).

With other guns, I can just click a mouse button and then move on to the next weapon grouping for a followup to keep constant fire down range. With a Gauss, I have to line up a shot, wait for the gun to charge, and then fire. Durring that whole time I am looking for the weapon bar or indicator by the cross hair to turn green and while I am doing that, I am not firing any other weapon. I could be firing other weapons, but that is when I tend to over-charge.

I'd rather run a dual gauss and ONLY worry about the Gauss. If I can't concentrate in battle well enough to keep up DPS with multiple weapons and one Gauss, I might as well specialize a build with dual Gauss and rely on the alpha damage. Just easier and more effective.

TL;DR
That is why I have the one Gauss build as a dual Gauss. I like the mechanic because it is different, but it takes so much concentration to use it well, that I need to rely soley on the Gauss rifles for damage (hence dual Gauss).

[Ascheriit Davion]

Why can't we have the best of both world while keeping the idea of innovative gaming and the lore?

Why can't we have both type of gauss?
1st type: Original/traditional/lore ISgauss and/or Clangauss: NO Charge, weapon (not ammo) exploded when destroyed, slow firing yet, and everything else just like before the charge implemented, feel free to nerf or buff it so that it balances with the current patch.

2nd type: the new charge gauss: Faster projectile (considering you charge it, Megaman X charged buster shot > regular buster shot), longer range (for IS and clan version respectively), more damage (its a role specific, aka sniping weapon anyway, sniper should always aim to pin poin and 1 shot kill, the closer to that ideal is better), now to prevent people choosing the "original" gauss. Make the new charge gauss: lighter (more other weapon baby), non explosive (while not charged or charged, different debate for this), and add whatever else buff u want from a charge weapon.

Then we compare (though not necessary), how many people use each type of gauss. Coz lately in all of my matches I hardly see people use gauss. I mean my matches were as random as other people, why didn't I see more people using gauss or at least the same number of people like the old days.

Well, we're always talking about being open minded, in the past pro-charge gauss people say, "THE CHARGE GAUSS IS AWESOME NOW, you charge-gauss hater please move on", you're right coz now its time to say "let us all have what we want, charge gauss people you got what you want with all the innovative changes (and any other advntages thereof) AND with the option to go back to the traditional way every-once-in-a-while".

Edited by Ascheriit Davion, 06 February 2014 - 03:11 AM.

[Mackensen]

The GR is a very powerful weapon right now and I don't want it to be any easier to use. I often run a dual Gauss Firebrand and I kill fast moving Spiders, Locusts and Ravens in one shot and I consider myself to be just an average player.

[gamingogre]

I can't play with the charge-up. It is beyond my skill level. I am shelving mine until the charge-up goes away.

[Black Arachne]

Guass is definitely not fine - barely see anyone use em - just like pulses and erppcs. This game is very much starting to look like clone wars. Same mechs, Same Weapons, Same Builds.

[Black Templar]

I have to agree. The meta has been stale for over one year now. The Gauss Rifle is acutally fine to use once you get used to the charge. Still I think it needs some love. It is in fact very difficult to chain fire it with other weapons on your mech. It either needs a reduction in cooldown or a nice quirk.

How about armor penetration? I mean the Gauss Rifle is supposed to be a mighty weapon right?

"Every (second, (third?)) Gauss Round that hits the same section of an enemy mech deals penetration damage, dealing full damage to all sections it passes through. This includes internal structure."

or

" Every (second, (third?)) Gauss Round that hits the same section of an enemy mech deals penetration damage, dealing full damage to first layer, (75%) damage to internals underneath and (50%) damage to the armor section behind it." (Since arms and legs don't feature back armor they only receive two instances of penetration damage.)

or

We increase the health of the Gauss Rifle to 10 and do the following:
"Every (120) seconds the pilot can overload the capacitors of his Gauss Rifle by holding down the charge button for (3) seconds. The next shot will damage the Gauss Rifle for (2) damage, but will (if it hits) penetrate the enemy mech's armor." (Examples for damage models given above.)

Edited by Black Templar, 14 February 2014 - 07:15 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Black Arachne, on 10 February 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Guass is definitely not fine - barely see anyone use em - just like pulses and erppcs. This game is very much starting to look like clone wars. Same mechs, Same Weapons, Same Builds.

I use gauss every day.

They do need work.

I would appreciate either extending the hold duration to a few seconds, OR, at a minimum, reducing the reload time to 3.25 seconds to accommodate for the time it takes to charge the weapon so that the statistical rate of DPS remains unchanged.

As it is now, the gauss rifle took a statistical AND SIGNIFICANTLY REAL DPS hit with the charge mechanic. The reload time is now AT LEAST 4.75 seconds. THAT's IF, you fire after having charged the weapon, if you don't, the next charge time is effectively added to your reload time, further decreasing the statistical DPS of the weapon.

I've lost count of the times I've died to an enemy while recharging my gauss rifle because of 'missing' the .25 second shot window.

It's extremely frustrating.

[Khobai]

Extending the charge duration would defeat the whole purpose of the chargeup mechanic. if you allow the gauss to hold its charge for longer then you can poptart with it again, by holding the charge, jumping, then firing. The current charge up mechanics prevent poptarting with gauss and thats a good thing.

The only changes the gauss needs are more hitpoints (10 instead of 5) and to lower its cooldown from 4.0 to 3.25 because of the 0.75 charge time (makes it the same dps as it was before the chargeup mechanic was added)

Edited by Khobai, 14 February 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Old Gauss Rifle

Pros:
Second-highest damage/shot
Second-longest range
Third-highest projectile velocity
Pinpoint damage
Tied for lowest heat/shot (not counting dubious MGs)
No ammo explosions
Good ammo/ton
Compact for a heavy ballistic weapon
Gauss Rifle explosion does only 1/8th as much damage as 1 ton of ordinary ammo

Cons:
Low weapon health
Can explode (for minor damage)
Heaviest weapon in game (By one ton. And with high ammo/ton, no need for Heat Sinks, and compact size allowing LosTech upgrades, this isn't too hard to compensate for.)
Moderately low damage/time

New Gauss Rifle

Pros:
Second-highest damage/shot
Second-longest range
Highest projectile velocity
Pinpoint damage
Tied for lowest heat/shot (not counting dubious MGs)
No ammo explosions
Gauss Rifle explosion does only 1/8th as much damage as 1 ton of ordinary ammo
Good ammo/ton
Compact for a heavy ballistic weapon

Cons:
Low weapon health
Can explode (for minor damage)
Heaviest weapon in game (By one ton. And with high ammo/ton, no need for Heat Sinks, and compact size allowing LosTech upgrades, this isn't too hard to compensate for.)
Moderately low damage/time
0.75s charge time before shot



The Gauss Rifle is still a top-tier weapon, and its advantages far outweigh its drawbacks. The difference is that now it requires some practice to use well, instead of being the lowest-hanging fruit in the game for ease of aiming, easy heat management, and pinpoint damage.