31 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

Engine cap: 245--->295.

The raven's legs are just too targetable for the mech to cap out at 123 kph with speed tweek. There is no reason at all for this limitation to be in place.

[Flying Blind]

We used to have this back when the raven first came out. In fact all 3 ravens were able to mount an xl 300 like the Jenner. It was nice, all the ravens were decent mechs. I still don't understand why we had to make 2 of them suck really bad.

[Foxfire]

It makes me sad because I WANT to like the 4X but it is so hard to...

Edited by Foxfire, 06 September 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

New maps that make JJ more important and buffs to the MG push the 4X towards relevency.

The 2x is... It's a fake imitation Jenner that you get for free for maxing out your 3L. That's it's value.

[Jin Ma]

engine would be really nice

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

They need to undo the silly giant hitboxes they put around all the ravens back when the 3L was the scourge of the battlefield (due to OP Streaks + ECM). Changes to movement, ECM and Streaks over the last few months have made the Raven the 2nd worst light mech at the moment besides commando.

[Foxfire]

Kanatta Jing, on 06 September 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

New maps that make JJ more important and buffs to the MG push the 4X towards relevency.

The 2x is... It's a fake imitation Jenner that you get for free for maxing out your 3L. That's it's value.

I just wish they were relevant in their own rights and not just because they are a path to mastering the 3L.

It is just asinine to have an arbitrary limitation on the X variants.

[Foxfire]

Ahh well.. I give up on my experiment to try to have fun with the 4X.

The 'fun' factor is just killed by how vulnerable the mech is.. between the speed and how easy it is to hit the Raven's legs... there is no point.

[Johnny Reb]

Simple fix to make the Hunchback P rock let it run a xl390 like the cent D! Then I would open up/rebuy the lunchbox!

[Foxfire]

Well we should tackle inner-chasis quirks first.

I don't know if there are any other chasis that have such a limit placed one variant and not another but if there are, they should all be normalized.

[Gaan Cathal]

I'm somewhat hoping that the -X model Ravens will get an engine size fix when the Raven hero arrives (it's the oldest mech without one, so it's probable it'll get one fairly soon). It'd be nice for the combat variants not to be pathetically inferior at combat relative to the dedicated EWAR version.

[ShadowbaneX]

Just as an aside, with a 245 engine and MASC the Raven could do 151.2 kph.

[DONTOR]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 06 September 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

They need to undo the silly giant hitboxes they put around all the ravens back when the 3L was the scourge of the battlefield (due to OP Streaks + ECM). Changes to movement, ECM and Streaks over the last few months have made the Raven the 2nd worst light mech at the moment besides commando.

Hmmm commando is bad or are you just bad at piloting it? hmmmm

[Macbrea]

What's funny is of the mechs, I own at this point, the only one I have mastered is the Raven-2X (225xl, LRM15+A, 4SPL). My 3L still has like 15k experience to go and my 4X is sitting at 20k and painful to play.

[ShotgunWillie]

Foxfire, on 08 September 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Well we should tackle inner-chasis quirks first.

I don't know if there are any other chasis that have such a limit placed one variant and not another but if there are, they should all be normalized.

The Cataphract CTF-4X is limited to a max engine of 255 while the others can run up to a 340. I think there's a variant of the Centurion that can run a larger engine than the rest. I'm pretty sure there's also a variant of the Awesome that can run a larger engine than the rest.

[ICEFANG13]

Everyone already knows this. PGI just can't figure it out. Even moving to a 250 max would be a nice buff.

[DEMAX51]

I wouldn't be surprised to see them revisit the Light hitboxes (not just the Raven, but Jenner and Commando too) once HSR issues have been more or less resolved. I think this is why they've also avoided playing with the Spider's hitboxes up 'till this point.

Gaan Cathal, on 09 September 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

I'm somewhat hoping that the -X model Ravens will get an engine size fix when the Raven hero arrives (it's the oldest mech without one, so it's probable it'll get one fairly soon). It'd be nice for the combat variants not to be pathetically inferior at combat relative to the dedicated EWAR version.

Oldest 'Mech without a Hero? What about any of the original 'Mechs like the Hunchy, Atlas, Jenner and Catapult?

ShotgunWillie, on 10 September 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

The Cataphract CTF-4X is limited to a max engine of 255 while the others can run up to a 340. I think there's a variant of the Centurion that can run a larger engine than the rest. I'm pretty sure there's also a variant of the Awesome that can run a larger engine than the rest.

Yup - also the Trebuchet 3C, the Firebrand, the Dragonslayer...

Edited by DEMAX51, 10 September 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

DEMAX51, on 10 September 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Oldest 'Mech without a Hero? What about any of the original 'Mechs like the Hunchy, Atlas, Jenner and Catapult?

PGI have said they consider Founders mechs to be semi-Hero mechs, so they're doing all the non-Founder-capable mechs in Hero form before those 4. Basically, until they're the only ones left, Founder's = Hero.

[Joker Two]

The RVN-2X and -4X are already among the fastest in proportion to their stock speeds. Since the system cannot currently handle the speeds Spiders and Jenners could achieve if they were subject to the same proportional speed cap as the Commando and Raven, the speed caps for the COM and RVN should actually be reduced, to keep them in line with other light 'Mechs in terms of proportional speed.

Here are the currently existing light 'Mechs in order of stock speed according to tabletop values: (MP values)-KPH*
(05/08)-086.4 RVN-2X, -4X
(06/09)-097.2 COM-1B, -1D, -2D, -3A; RVN-3L
(07/11)-118.8 JR7-D, -F, -K
(08/12)-129.6 SDR-5D, -5K, -5V

*For reference, 1 Tabletop MP equals 10.8 KPH
The 5/8 and 7/11 speeds are lowered slightly in MWO because of a direct conversion between engine rating, tonnage, and speed, rather than the rounding in tabletop. So 5/8 becomes 5/7.5, or 81 kph, while 7/11 becomes 7/10.5, or 113.4 kph.

The method used for calculating speed caps created circumstances where different 'Mechs with vastly different characteristics in tabletop could achieve similar speeds. For example, the RVN-3L can achieve functionally the same maximum speed (only 1.45 kph lower) as any variant of the JR7, even though a stock JR7 is 14% faster.

This table shows how much any given chassis can increase their speed beyond that of a stock model of that chassis, using MWO engine customization:
06% SDR-5D, -5K, -5V
22% JR7-D, -F, -K
40% COM-1B, -1D, -2D, -3A; RVN-2X, -3L, -4X

The fastest light 'Mechs; Spiders, can barely increase their speed at all, while the slowest 'Mechs; Commandos and Ravens, can increase their speed by a massive amount, to the point where the RVN-3L can achieve the same speed as the SDR, a 'Mech that should be 33% faster than it.

[ShadowbaneX]

They've got a system in place where for light mechs the max engine rating is 1.4 times the base speed. ~1.3 for mediums, ~1.2 for heavies and assaults. This breaks down with the Spiders, the Cicadas and the like which already start out with really high engines, so they cap it at the point where the mech would hit 150 kph with tweak.

What I'm finding odd though is that looking at the entries on Sarna, it would seem that the Raven is supposed to be able to hit 97.2 kph, not the 81 kph that's in MWO. Did the Raven-2X & 4X come with smaller engines?

Either way, I think the solution is going to be MASC. That will allow the 2 & 4X to hit 150 kph without any other changes.