185 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Foxfire, on 07 September 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

That is entirely your fault.

Had you made a thread saying 'Collision needs to be re-added to the game', you'd be getting a lot of concurrences and agrees.

Instead you made your post out to be a rant against light mechs and how unfair it is that light mechs don't get harmed from collisions(which is a false statement since any significant reduction in speed is easily a death sentence for a light in the heat of battle).

Sorry, but the tone of this post is entirely on you.

Collisions effected lights the most. Collisions were taken out cause they were not "new" light "player" friendly and the griefing part by people who understood collisions. So the influx of lights is due to the lack of skill of "watching your surroundings" due to no consequences (collisions). Who doesn't want to play a "fast mech" that can do = damage of and assault with little to no penalties?

[Wolfways]

I guess it's all just a matter of experiences within the game.
I rarely see lights doing hit and run tactics, and never scouting although that is PGI's fault for not making it worthwhile...and not making bigger maps.
I often see lights, especially Jenners, run headlong into assault mechs and stand in front of them and beat them face to face. It has happened to me a few times where a Jenner with 4 ML's rips apart my Stalker while i'm hitting him with 2 LL's, 4 ML's, and 2 SRM6's.
And if you get killed by a group of lights you must have been alone? Complete rubbish. Too many times i've seen four or more lights running around the whole enemy team picking off one mech at a time while taking a load of firepower which apparently did very little.
It seems that some light pilots also think that they are OP too. Not long ago i was in a match and we had about 5 lights (can't remember the exact number, but it's not like 5+ is uncommon anyway) on our team and someone said "Lights go cap", and the response from a Jenner pilot was "You must be new. Lights don't cap, we do the killing." and off they ran and wiped out the enemy before our assaults even got there. I've seen this happen a few times where there are more than 3 or 4 lights on a team.

My wife is a good player...possibly better than me but she quit MWO for a while because she was sick of "Light mech online".

If you find that lights fall apart when you look at them i'm happy for you (unless you're the light pilot), but others have different experiences.

[Imperius]

Wolfways, on 07 September 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

I guess it's all just a matter of experiences within the game.
I rarely see lights doing hit and run tactics, and never scouting although that is PGI's fault for not making it worthwhile...and not making bigger maps.
I often see lights, especially Jenners, run headlong into assault mechs and stand in front of them and beat them face to face. It has happened to me a few times where a Jenner with 4 ML's rips apart my Stalker while i'm hitting him with 2 LL's, 4 ML's, and 2 SRM6's.
And if you get killed by a group of lights you must have been alone? Complete rubbish. Too many times i've seen four or more lights running around the whole enemy team picking off one mech at a time while taking a load of firepower which apparently did very little.
It seems that some light pilots also think that they are OP too. Not long ago i was in a match and we had about 5 lights (can't remember the exact number, but it's not like 5+ is uncommon anyway) on our team and someone said "Lights go cap", and the response from a Jenner pilot was "You must be new. Lights don't cap, we do the killing." and off they ran and wiped out the enemy before our assaults even got there. I've seen this happen a few times where there are more than 3 or 4 lights on a team.

My wife is a good player...possibly better than me but she quit MWO for a while because she was sick of "Light mech online".

If you find that lights fall apart when you look at them i'm happy for you (unless you're the light pilot), but others have different experiences.

Well said and my points exactly. People don't know the intended role of a light and that is PGI fault.

[Wolfways]

Imperius, on 07 September 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Well said and my points exactly. People don't know the intended role of a light and that is PGI fault.

I'm not saying a light should only scout. I just think that they're a bit too good in a brawl, and maybe that's part of why there are hardly any mediums being played (compared to other classes).
Just wanted to make sure that point was understood

[Imperius]

Wolfways, on 07 September 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

I'm not saying a light should only scout. I just think that they're a bit too good in a brawl, and maybe that's part of why there are hardly any mediums being played (compared to other classes).
Just wanted to make sure that point was understood

I typed this earlier just too lazy to type. Again I agree.

Role of a light: Darting in and out of battle giving "quick" supporting fire and or chasing down an almost dead mech, scouting information and positions of main battle force, laser target and line of sight LRM support, and finally ECM

[Tynan]

Imperius, on 07 September 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Who doesn't want to play a "fast mech" that can do = damage of and assault with little to no penalties?

This right here is why people aren't taking you seriously. No light has the damage output of an assault. They need to stay alive a lot longer to do the same amount of damage, and a single alpha, correctly placed, can leg most of them. And even then, most of the weapons available to them are short range.

Show me how many CTF-3Ds and AC20 Jags or Cats regularly do over 600 damage a match, and then show me how many lights approach that on any match that isn't exceptional.

[Imperius]

Tynan, on 07 September 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

This right here is why people aren't taking you seriously. No light has the damage output of an assault. They need to stay alive a lot longer to do the same amount of damage, and a single alpha, correctly placed, can leg most of them. And even then, most of the weapons available to them are short range.

Show me how many CTF-3Ds and AC20 Jags or Cats regularly do over 600 damage a match, and then show me how many lights approach that on any match that isn't exceptional.

Range isn't an issue for them, you and I must not be playing the same game. Cause lasers do a ton of pin point focus damage. You have to hit one big center core against and assault we are lucky to hit your core in the same spot twice let alone leg a mech when a I often see my shots pass though their legs.

[Foxfire]

I'd like to meet these mythical Jenner pilots who could stand infront of an atlas or stalker and outslug them.

If, however, you mean that they moved around and beat them.. then there is no problem.

The issue isn't with lights but with Mediums being lackluster death traps for the most part. A well piloted light should be able to take down an assault because of the matchup between strengths and weaknesses.

The light pilot's real fear should be a well piloted medium but, with the exception of a properly built Hunchback or cicada(which is really just an oversized light), most mediums are either way too slow to deal with lights, way to big to survive long in the battlefield, or a combination of both.

[Foxfire]

Tynan, on 07 September 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

This right here is why people aren't taking you seriously. No light has the damage output of an assault. They need to stay alive a lot longer to do the same amount of damage, and a single alpha, correctly placed, can leg most of them. And even then, most of the weapons available to them are short range.

Show me how many CTF-3Ds and AC20 Jags or Cats regularly do over 600 damage a match, and then show me how many lights approach that on any match that isn't exceptional.

Lights can approach that damage range. On the 3L and Jenner D I typically get between 500 and 800 damage(with the average more towards the 500 side) unless I do something boneheaded and take a lot of damage or get taken out early. I've even had a few matches in the 600 range with the Raven-4X.

What I can't do, however, is approach and break the 1k mark like heavies and assaults have the potential to do.

[HarlekinEO]

I think Collition Modell has to be added. Esspecially for Jumpjet Modells. I dont think of a nerf for scouts only, just in common. A Jumpjet collition Modell should even harm heavy Mechs much more (fall down damage on torso, if he dont lands well). Mechwarrior is a Mechsimulation and not a crazy Arcadeshooter, like R-Type )where you kill Enemys and get upgrades with lots of firepower, speed-uo, shield-up,orbs, etc pp...).
Running into a Mech should deal damage aswell and stopp the mech (if lighter) or push the otherone backwards (not falling, just pushing back). If a mech falls or keeps balance, could even being diced...

Edit: Just read the post of my previous poster and just want to add this: Even though many people see the Raven 4X as pain in the ***, but it is a by far better damage dealer, then the 3L.
Jumpjets doing god job (Yeah, still wanting the thrill of falling down -> Just install a function like Overheat were you need some time to get up again).

Edited by HarlekinEO, 07 September 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[Imperius]

HarlekinEO, on 07 September 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

I think Collition Modell has to be added. Esspecially for Jumpjet Modells. I dont think of a nerf for scouts only, just in common. A Jumpjet collition Modell should even harm heavy Mechs much more (fall down damage on torso, if he dont lands well). Mechwarrior is a Mechsimulation and not a crazy Arcadeshooter, like R-Type )where you kill Enemys and get upgrades with lots of firepower, speed-uo, shield-up,orbs, etc pp...).
Running into a Mech should deal damage aswell and stopp the mech (if lighter) or push the otherone backwards (not falling, just pushing back). If a mech falls or keeps balance, could even being diced...

Edit: Just read the post of my previous poster and just want to add this: Even though many people see the Raven 4X as pain in the ***, but it is a by far better damage dealer, then the 3L.
Jumpjets doing god job (Yeah, still wanting the thrill of falling down -> Just install a function like Overheat were you need some time to get up again).

I'm going to ask first but English isn't you main language is it?

[Pezzer]

This thread is four pages in? Wow.

If you can't kill a Light in your Atlas, stay with the group.
If you can't kill an Atlas in your Light, team up.

If ECM is getting you down, join a small group of players and make sure someone equips NARC or BAP.
If you're just having a terrible time, take a break from the game and play something else. Or just silently rage, please.

It's that simple, disregarding any and all balance issues (since they aren't that bad, I mean really). Please get off your high horse and realize the fact that Assaults are supposed to have several weaknesses. This is a way to balance off their several strengths.

Edited by Pezzer, 07 September 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Sean von Steinike]

I mostly stopped piloting lights when they took out collisions. Got fairly dull and lame. Not that lights are OP because they still die easy (aside from the borked up spiders), but too many rely on the cheese factor that they can run over and through an enemy with no consequence.

[Imperius]

Pezzer, on 07 September 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

This thread is four pages in? Wow.

If you can't kill a Light in your Atlas, stay with the group.
If you can't kill an Atlas in your Light, team up.

If ECM is getting you down, join a small group of players and make sure someone equips NARC or BAP.
If you're just having a terrible time, take a break from the game and play something else. Or just silently rage, please.

It's that simple, disregarding any and all balance issues (since they aren't that bad, I mean really). Please get off your high horse and realize the fact that Assaults are supposed to have several weaknesses. This is a way to balance off their several strengths.

Lights are supposed to have the same several weaknesses to balance off there several strengths. At the moment one big check/balance is missing and that is collisions. Yet assaults still have incline limitations. Yeah get off your high horse and join reality the balance of the scale is a bit off at the moment!

[Tynan]

I know numerous people have said this already, but seriously, spend the 5~ mil CBills and get yourself a Jenner. Play ten matches or so. I imagine you'll find the experience of trying to stay alive in a light is very, very different than what it feels like from your side in the Atlas.

[Foxfire]

Lights do have their weaknesses to balance out the strengths.

They lack armor and they can't pull out near the same level of firepower.

You are making a mistake of including secondary systems into the main balance equation of firepower, armor, and maneuverability.

[Airu]

Assault tears are so delicious
The only non light mech I own is victor, so I spend most of my time playing jenner or spider. When I see an lonely assault noob that can't even hold his lasers on my torso consistently, I don't even bother moving much, just stand there moving back and forth infront of him and cut his side torsos off. Especially stalkers - so easy to evade lasers, if you count the seconds after his last shot, you can move just before he shoots you again.
All the assault whiners need to go and master spiders, jenners, ravens and maybe commandos without using GXP, then we can talk about lights being OP

Edited by Airu, 07 September 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[YueFei]

Wolfways, on 07 September 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

I can't remember the last time i saw a light mech hit and fade. They always just circle-strafe or sit right in front of me, and i'm usually in a K2, Jager, or Stalker.
Just a few days ago i was testing the gauss changes in a twin gauss Cataphract. I legged a Jenner as he went around a corner and i followed him to within around 100m and fired dead center at him with over 6 shots plus ML's and he fired back with 4 ML's. His ct armour turned yellow before he blew out my previously undamaged ct.
Hit detection is still extremely bad.

My wife and i started calling the end of matches "Jenner TV" long ago.

I invite you to watch PEEFSmash, in particular his Light mech video guide:

http://mwomercs.com/...48#entry2727848


There's no idiotic circle-strafing. Plenty of movement, engaging from one direction, and then breaking off to strike from a different angle. And, like I said before, making use of a ridgeline to fire at an enemy with low-slung guns, so that he remains safe from return fire.


If you had HSR issues hitting a legged Jenner, that's a HSR problem, not a game balance problem with Light mechs. And that's an issue not restricted to Light mechs. I once had a frustrating situation in my Hunchback against a Stalker where my 3 consecutive AC20 shells didn't register, and he was stationary.


Bugs that happen to screw you over should not be used to argue gameplay balance. Or should I be screaming incoherently about Stalker hitboxes?

Edited by YueFei, 07 September 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[Martin Oberhofer]

As one who plays many different mechs (and mastered a handfull of every weight class), i dont feel Lights overpowerd. Yes they are actually used as litte gunships, maybe not what they was intendet in TT, but than even IS-mechs shouldnt be as customizable as they are All in all i find lights pretty balanced. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH LIGHTS YOU HAVE TO IMPROVE YOUR AIM a good Pilot takes a light out of the game in a heartbeat, if both sides are decent it may takes a bit longer, but it has been a while since i was killed By a sole light -> packs of them are an other Story

[XANi]

LIGHTS ARE SCOUTS NOT BRAWLERS, NERF THEM TO HELL BECAUSE I CAN'T AIM