65 replies to this topic

[MrZakalwe]

Before you tell me they have been nerfed by the last patch I'll go over a few things.

• They don't run very hot even with the added heat.
  
• You can set a macro to fire your ERPPCs when you release the Gauss rifle button meaning you can still alpha effortlessly.
  
• The projectile speeds are now actually closer to each other making a pinpoint alpha more likely.
  
• Gauss charge up and PPC speed reduction makes return fire less of an issue for a poptart.
  
• Non-poptart sniper builds are now weaker (As a poptart the charge time is a non-issue as you nearly always know when you will need to fire and the cooldown increase is also a non-issue).

So with those things in mind... do folks think the 2xERPPC + Gauss poptarts needed a buff? Because it just got one

Edited by MrZakalwe, 04 September 2013 - 05:49 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't see it as a buff. I do need to put it to more live fire use though. But I don't pop tart, so I may not be your intended audience.

[KharnZor]

Voted no. You cant be serious surely.

[DocBach]

Didn't see the changes as a buff or a nerf - just changes. Think both weapons have better balance and individual characteristics now.

[MrZakalwe]

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Voted no. You cant be serious surely.

Get the feeling somebody voted and posted without reading the post

[KharnZor]

MrZakalwe, on 04 September 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Get the feeling somebody voted and posted without reading the post

Oh i read it alright.

[Bad Andy]

**** thread

[MrZakalwe]

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Oh i read it alright.

Then what part makes you think I'm not being serious about? (remember that what I'm claiming does require use of a simple macro)

Bad Andy, on 04 September 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

**** thread

Well thanks for your input- I can see you put a lot of thought into that post.

Edited by MrZakalwe, 04 September 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Monky]

I can see how thinking this makes poptarts buffed, but not how it makes the entire weapon combo buffed.

If anything, poptarts need minor shake on the way down. Just enough that it would affect snipers, nothing more.

[Kenyon Burguess]

if people keep posting how easy it is to do with a macro, the devs might get some crazy idea on how to fix that issue by adding another charge up for ppc and a third charge up rate for er ppc.

[KharnZor]

MrZakalwe, on 04 September 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Then what part makes you think I'm not being serious about? (remember that what I'm claiming does require use of a simple macro)

Obviously you assume that i dont pop tart. I've got upwards of 10k drops with a high w/l and kdr. so you arent talking to some noob scrub. Yea sure you can macro it but thats for those who lack the skill necessary do do so. This is little more than a joke thread.

[Enigmos]

The macroability of delaying your ERPPC fire by .75 is not a buff. If you poptart you would start your gauss charge before popping. You do not know exactly how long it will take to acquire target. Thus any automated delay in ERPPC fire will not reliably equate to simultaneous fire with the gauss.

[MrZakalwe]

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Obviously you assume that i dont pop tart. I've got upwards of 10k drops with a high w/l and kdr. so you arent talking to some noob scrub. Yea sure you can macro it but thats for those who lack the skill necessary do do so. This is little more than a joke thread.

I wasn't assuming you were a 'noob scrub' (most of the people on this forum are better than me and have played longer) I was curious what you found that was inaccurate in that list of changed conditions? I genuinely think this is a buff to poptarts.

(and nobody needs a macro for that but to be honest I don't know about you but I'm not as quick as a macro so not using one would impede my ability to make the shot hit a single location).

[KharnZor]

MrZakalwe, on 04 September 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

I wasn't assuming you were a 'noob scrub' (most of the people on this forum are better than me and have played longer) I was curious what you found that was inaccurate in that list of changed conditions? I genuinely think this is a buff to poptarts.

(and nobody needs a macro for that but to be honest I don't know about you but I'm not as quick as a macro so not using one would impede my ability to make the shot hit a single location).

Sorry i'm not going to tell you what you want to hear. They arent buffed nor do they need a buff. Good day to you sir.

[MrZakalwe]

OriginalTibs, on 04 September 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

The macroability of delaying your ERPPC fire by .75 is not a buff. If you poptart you would start your gauss charge before popping. You do not know exactly how long it will take to acquire target. Thus any automated delay in ERPPC fire will not reliably equate to simultaneous fire with the gauss.

You set the macro up to fire on release of the left mouse button (assuming you use left mouse button for the Gauss in this example) meaning they will fire at the same time neatly circumventing any problems coordinating Gauss and ERPPC.

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Sorry i'm not going to tell you what you want to hear. They arent buffed nor do they need a buff. Good day to you sir.

No I'm genuinely curious now- if you point out a mistake I've made I'll edit the original post.

I agree with you that they did not need a buff but I disagree that they have not been buffed (only while poptarting- a ground bound 2xERPPC + Gauss mech has been nerfed).

EDIT: the poptart play pattern neatly sidesteps all the disadvantages and a nerf to other things around it is a functional buff.

Edited by MrZakalwe, 04 September 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Cybermech]

PPC speed got reduced and guass increased.
There not the same speed.
It is now 2xguass + 1xppc.

But people are questioning your hole post is cause your missing a few things.
Macro's thank god is being pushed around by those who don't want just the "cool kidz" to have it.
There is a chance of sanity coming back into the forums which most people really want.
So don't be to surprised if you are getting trolled atm.

should change "need" to "did"

Edited by Cybermech, 04 September 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Ralgas]

MrZakalwe, on 04 September 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

You set the macro up to fire on release of the left mouse button (assuming you use left mouse button for the Gauss in this example) meaning they will fire at the same time neatly circumventing any problems coordinating Gauss and ERPPC.

No I'm genuinely curious now- if you point out a mistake I've made I'll edit the original post.

I agree with you that they did not need a buff but I disagree that they have not been buffed (only while poptarting- a ground bound 2xERPPC + Gauss mech has been nerfed).

EDIT: the poptart play pattern neatly sidesteps all the disadvantages and a nerf to other things around it is a functional buff.

Except that you only have a window of opportunity after you know where your target is, half jumps just over a ridge take a lot more timing, 2.5 secs really isn't that long in the scheme of things. Secondly if i understand the macro right, you must fire the ppc's once you've committed to the gauss charge wasting heat (and significant heat now) if you don't get a clear shot.

Edit: People also seem to forget that erppc's were seen as useless last time they had this much base heat, and then they still had full velocity......

Edited by Ralgas, 04 September 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[MrZakalwe]

Cybermech, on 04 September 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

PPC speed got reduced and guass increased.
There not the same speed.
It is now 2xguass + 1xppc.

But people are questioning your hole post is cause your missing a few things.
Macro's thank god is being pushed around by those who don't want just the "cool kidz" to have it.
There is a chance of sanity coming back into the forums which most people really want.
So don't be to surprised if you are getting trolled atm.

should change "need" to "did"

Previous
Gauss 1200m/s
PPC 2000m/s
800m/s difference

Current
Gauss 2000m/s
PPC 1500m/s
Difference 500m/s

The speed difference between the 20 damage and 15 damage components has actually been reduced.

[MrZakalwe]

Ralgas, on 04 September 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Except that you only have a window of opportunity after you know where your target is, half jumps just over a ridge take a lot more timing, 2.5 secs really isn't that long in the scheme of things. Secondly if i understand the macro right, you must fire the ppc's once you've committed to the gauss charge wasting heat (and significant heat now) if you don't get a clear shot.

Very true but a 1.25 second window of opportunity is pretty big (doesn't look it in test but it feels like forever when you are stunned in DOTA ).

To clarify I don't believe it's an actual buff to the poptart I believe it is a functional buff to the poptart because the nerfs hit many things that would be firing back at them a lot harder.

So the nerf hits the problem build much less hard than it hits the various builds that aren't a problem.

Although I concede that the buffs to the twin AC Jager'/'phract may outweigh this- only time will tell.

Edited by MrZakalwe, 04 September 2013 - 06:38 AM.

[Kattspya]

KharnZor, on 04 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Obviously you assume that i dont pop tart. I've got upwards of 10k drops with a high w/l and kdr. so you arent talking to some noob scrub. Yea sure you can macro it but thats for those who lack the skill necessary do do so. This is little more than a joke thread.

Reads like scrub talk to me. Timing release and triggering PPCs are not a hard thing to do in isolation but add stress and ten other things you need to keep in mind and suddenly it is no longer a matter of skill but parallel capacity for doing stuff. A thing humans do poorly. You take your skill and go up against an equal with macros you will lose. Wanna play TFC or some versions of quake? I get to use scripts and you don't.