81 replies to this topic

[DEMAX51]

I completely agree with PEEF's earlier post. I have tried myriad builds in the Jenner-F, but I always end up going back to my old standby (and that's 5 medium lasers for those interested! not 6)

The 6 SPL build can work well - especially in Light v Light fights - but the 5ML build is just a much more versatile all-purpose 'Mech.

[-Muta-]

It does the trick but running cooler. I would drop 1ML and add an extra DHS. Will only have 1JJ and more DHS.

[DEMAX51]

Mutaroc, on 12 September 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

It does the trick but running cooler. I would drop 1ML and add an extra DHS. Will only have 1JJ and more DHS.

People who "like" their own posts should be castrated.

Edit: ...twice, if it were possible.

Edited by DEMAX51, 12 September 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

Mutaroc, on 12 September 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I love brawling so I use my JR7-F with 6 small pulse lasers to leg people, specially atlas and stalkers. It runs cooler that the regular 6 meds, and you will be practicing and improving your brawling skills since you have to really get close to your target...

I think a more important skill to develop is learning to stay away from mechs. There are very few times in this game where you want to be up close. As a light you want to maintain a range of 250+ whenever possible. Usually I like to stay about 400 out and either make quick passes from that range, or dip quickly below 300 to get a shot or two. If I'm within 90m of an enemy mech, and there are several other enemies alive, I am begging to get one-shotted. Too many lights get sucked in below that when they shouldn't be there, so encouraging them to force their way into 90m can only build bad habits IMO.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 12 September 2013 - 01:21 PM.

[aniviron]

PEEFsmash, on 09 September 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

The small pulse lasers are in an advantage ONLY within 90 meters. You don't want to be inside that range as a light. Maybe in a 1v1, but you don't get many of those.

Medium lasers are just fine within 90 meters, but they also give you solid options for more conservative (and ultimately more reasonable) play in the 300-400m range. You can't throw that away.

Small pulses are not good. Even when I know I will be getting into a brawl I won't go with them because of their range. If their range was 180, then we could talk. Until then, absolutely no way.

TL;DR: I recommend strongly against them, as does every other top-tier light that I'm aware of (except one or two who like them to troll/force brawls and hope for the best).

Pretty much this. If you get within 90m as a light and stay for more than a few seconds while facing a pilot that is at all competent, you're committed to that engagement. There's no getting away after that. If he's fast, he will run you down. If he's slow, his guns will have plenty of time to rip you up while you try to get over 500m away. More than likely, he'll have friends nearby, because this is a team game. The more distance you get, the better. If you take SPL, you'd damn well better kill your opponent before he has time to react, or you're in for a lot of pain.

[John Buford]

On my Jenner-F I run 4 MLAS and 2SPLAS gives me a slight variety and gives me two advantages that I enjoy. First I get to do some Wubwubwub and I just love that sound and secondly I get to do good damage with my MLAS.

[-Muta-]

PEEFsmash, on 12 September 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I think a more important skill to develop is learning to stay away from mechs. There are very few times in this game where you want to be up close. As a light you want to maintain a range of 250+ whenever possible. Usually I like to stay about 400 out and either make quick passes from that range, or dip quickly below 300 to get a shot or two. If I'm within 90m of an enemy mech, and there are several other enemies alive, I am begging to get one-shotted. Too many lights get sucked in below that when they shouldn't be there, so encouraging them to force their way into 90m can only build bad habits IMO.

Agree with you Peef, It is a bit too risky to have to be at -90 mts from your target... Plus streak became super popular after the buff to 2.5. So yup.

In my JR7-D i have only 3 med L and 2x SSMR2 and fell in love with that build. I can shoot from away, rarely overheat and have the SSMR2 to take care of light mechs or for the brawl.

Edited by Mutaroc, 12 September 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[SchwarzerPeter]

I was running 6ML in my Jenner F for a long time. I was doing ok in it but it was nothing special in the playstyle. If you are running close at 150km/h you screw the lasers all over the place with that 1s duration. And the hill peak/ duck in cover metha is far be better in a HBK 4P. It also runs realy hot.

With the shorter beam duration i tried the SPL and i am realy loving them. They are far more heat efficient with almost the same DPS (1.25 vs 1.24) so you can squeze more damage out before overheating. It also helps a lot in a brawl.
The real plus is the very short beam of 0.5s You can run at full speed and still hit accurate. Espeacialy against lights this helps a lot., as almost every volley will hit, whereas you screw your ML all over the terrain.

Of course the range of 90m is very short. You have to close in realy carefully. But it will also improve your light piloting skills a lot, because you have to think outside the box to get in range. You will use terrain way more efficient than before. A good camo skin/color will help also.
But overall its not that complicated. Even with the ML i was facehuging a lot.

So give it a try. 3+ kills are not that unusal for me.

JR7-F

Edited by SchwarzerPeter, 12 September 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Bront]

It's a lot of fun, and it works fairly well, particularly for light hunting. You have to be more careful about head on fights due to range, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. They also tend to thrive more on maps with more cover.

Honestly, Small Lasers are almost as good (Still have the reduced beam duration, same range, half the weight).

I've seen the SL/SPL Jenners used very effectively in competitive play.

[ohtochooseaname]

PEEFsmash, on 09 September 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

The small pulse lasers are in an advantage ONLY within 90 meters. You don't want to be inside that range as a light. Maybe in a 1v1, but you don't get many of those.

Medium lasers are just fine within 90 meters, but they also give you solid options for more conservative (and ultimately more reasonable) play in the 300-400m range. You can't throw that away.

Small pulses are not good. Even when I know I will be getting into a brawl I won't go with them because of their range. If their range was 180, then we could talk. Until then, absolutely no way.

TL;DR: I recommend strongly against them, as does every other top-tier light that I'm aware of (except one or two who like them to troll/force brawls and hope for the best).

Although I agree that 6 small pulses is pretty useless due to the 90m range, I think you're missing one other chief way for a light to play, and that's taking out targets of opportunity and spreading mayhem. If you're going to get in close, the 1 second duration of medium lasers is far too long to stare at a target, and it'll cause your damage to spread everywhere. It is extremely common for a mech to take quite a bit of damage, and then rotate to the back, while husbanding exposed torso sections. Lights can easily take advantage of this, and take them down by targeting the exposed areas/back. However, to do this well, the shorter duration of pulse lasers is necessary. Small pulse lasers can work very well for this playstyle (as well as killiing other lights), however, the lack of any ranged fire means you'll run into many situations where you're unable to get shots off, but are being shot up quite a bit. Think of it that if you double the range you are effective at, you quadruple the actual area your mech can occupy and still hit the target, allowing you to better use cover and different angles of attack.

IMO, you'd probably do better with 4 MPL's in a Jenner K (and 2 extra modules) than with 6 SPL's for any playstyle you can think of: the key to surviving the enemy horde while taking down their buddy is to be in and out before they notice. This involves flanking, firing in on your way in, firing at point blank, and then one more time on your way out. With SPL's you really can't do that.

Edited by ohtochooseaname, 12 September 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[Tremendous Upside]

PEEFsmash, on 12 September 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I think a more important skill to develop is learning to stay away from mechs. There are very few times in this game where you want to be up close. As a light you want to maintain a range of 250+ whenever possible. Usually I like to stay about 400 out and either make quick passes from that range, or dip quickly below 300 to get a shot or two. If I'm within 90m of an enemy mech, and there are several other enemies alive, I am begging to get one-shotted. Too many lights get sucked in below that when they shouldn't be there, so encouraging them to force their way into 90m can only build bad habits IMO.

This is precisely why I went away from my 4xMPL and 2MPL/4SPL builds on the Jenner-F. I experimented with them for a few weeks after watching a guy (Countach) tear a bunch of mechs up near the end of a few matches - and I have to say, the builds were definitely effective. The guy was knocking legs off like tissue paper - and I was doing likewise in those builds. But the bottom line in the long run is that having to get too close and commiting when you don't need to ends up costing you more often than it should.

The big advantage to running longer ranged MLs is that you don't need to get so close that you get swarmed or picked off out in the open. You simply take a shot here, take one there - then fade or pull what you're fighting into friends. You learn to do that, and you'll win games left and right - regardless what your team is. The ML builds are much more versatile - and they're still solid up close when you need to do a gangster drive by or two.

Much of what makes a light pilot "good" isn't in how many kills you rack up or the damage you do in a game. It's the chaos you create by hitting guys on the edges of a formation and getting their attention or by drawing opponents back into your teammates for quick tag-team kills. It's just so much easier to do that when you have more range to work with.

As for 4xMPLs? The chief drawback there is definitely the heat. They just run too hot for what you get out of them. You really can't jam in more than ~15DHS without making sacrifices on a mech like the jenner, and your heat efficiency is a lot more important than a shorter duration on your shots. IMO, you're better off going with 3MLs and a single LL instead if you want to do something "different".

[ShinVector]

Like PEEF already mentioned...

The most balance and most competitive and efficient energy weapons for Jenners is Medium Lasers.
After spending so, many days in Jenners.. This I know to be true.

Some pointers:
1. You do not need 6 mediums lasers. Why not 5 and trade the other for an additional DHS and better heat efficiency ?
2. Ever tried trade 6 medium lasers for 3 MPLS ? wub wub wub !
3. Remember that a primary target for any light is Another Light... SPLS... does not cut it. Once I know that you carry it. I will continue to attack you from medium range and slowly but surely slice you apart bit by bit. Eg. Those juicy legs.
4. Some troll builds that you rarely see. XL245 + 2 Large Pulse Lasers ! 21.6 damage wub wub wub ! Rarely do people expected to be tag from 300 meters for 20+ damage from a flying Jenner from by this thing. The alternative builds are Dual PPC (eg. ERPPC + PPC) or Dual Large Lasers with 2 more DHS.




SPLS fight at the 4min mark: 250ms + non-functioning HSR (this was the past, slightly better now) + 1v1 lights.
It sucks.

Edited by ShinVector, 12 September 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[ShinVector]

ohtochooseaname, on 12 September 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Although I agree that 6 small pulses is pretty useless due to the 90m range, I think you're missing one other chief way for a light to play, and that's taking out targets of opportunity and spreading mayhem. If you're going to get in close, the 1 second duration of medium lasers is far too long to stare at a target, and it'll cause your damage to spread everywhere. It is extremely common for a mech to take quite a bit of damage, and then rotate to the back, while husbanding exposed torso sections. Lights can easily take advantage of this, and take them down by targeting the exposed areas/back. However, to do this well, the shorter duration of pulse lasers is necessary. Small pulse lasers can work very well for this playstyle (as well as killiing other lights), however, the lack of any ranged fire means you'll run into many situations where you're unable to get shots off, but are being shot up quite a bit. Think of it that if you double the range you are effective at, you quadruple the actual area your mech can occupy and still hit the target, allowing you to better use cover and different angles of attack.

IMO, you'd probably do better with 4 MPL's in a Jenner K (and 2 extra modules) than with 6 SPL's for any playstyle you can think of: the key to surviving the enemy horde while taking down their buddy is to be in and out before they notice. This involves flanking, firing in on your way in, firing at point blank, and then one more time on your way out. With SPL's you really can't do that.

This close range and sneaky play style that you mention. Has been absolutely NERFED thanks to PGI's Seismic Sensor.
Incidental the effective range of the MLAS (270m) is outside the max range of Advance Seismic Sensor (250m).

The most perfect position or hated position of a Jenner is. Behind behind the enemy when he being attacked by friendlies.
eg. Sniper's hill in forest colony. People like to hold up at the cover at the moment while they take pop shots at your buddies. If they didn't defend the hill.. It is the perfect place to land some back shots with MLAS.

Another interesting place I notice. Similar... Canyon... Bridges with enemy mechs directly below it and behind attacked by friendlies. People have a hell of a difficult time try to stop a Jenner landing MLAS into the back of their heads when it is directly on top of them. LOL !

These tactics does not work when your range is only 90m.

Edited by ShinVector, 12 September 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Syllogy]

PEEFsmash, on 12 September 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I think a more important skill to develop is learning to stay away from mechs. There are very few times in this game where you want to be up close. As a light you want to maintain a range of 250+ whenever possible. Usually I like to stay about 400 out and either make quick passes from that range, or dip quickly below 300 to get a shot or two. If I'm within 90m of an enemy mech, and there are several other enemies alive, I am begging to get one-shotted. Too many lights get sucked in below that when they shouldn't be there, so encouraging them to force their way into 90m can only build bad habits IMO.

tl;dr version: If you want to live, just find an obscure corner and shut your mech down.

[PEEFsmash]

Syllogy, on 13 September 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

tl;dr version: If you want to live, just find an obscure corner and shut your mech down.

Yep. Yep that's exactly what I said.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Draconis March, on 09 September 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

I've seen that the pretty standard and solid route to go with the JR7-F is to use 6 medium lasers.

The other night, I ran into a Jenner JR7-F player who seemed to be doing this build, but instead of medium lasers, he had small pulse lasers.

On the competitive scene, Jenners are used primarily to leg and kill other mechs (especially lights) as quickly as possible. With Small Pulses, the mechs run cooler and can leg other mechs faster. The obvious disadvantage to this is less raw damage and much less range.

The advantage of course is higher accuracy with the small pulse, and less heat -- meaning you can stay in the fight longer before you're running the red line.


Is one method better than another? Maybe. Some pilots will always go with personal preference. My Jenner F for instance does not use Small Pulse Lasers.
<S>

Edited by mwhighlander, 13 September 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[D1al T0ne]

I regularly get 400+ damage with this setup and several matches with 600+ damage and 2-3 kills: JR7-F

I play it by scouting ahead, calling enemy movements, and then moving back to our lines until our heavies and assaults get engaged, then I run in and start shooting vulnerable areas, legging lights, shooting the left torso of just about every mech I run past, knocking AC/20 arms off of Cents, destroying the hunch on hunchies, protecting our base and sometimes ghost capping to split the enemy forces.

Almost never stop moving unless you're 100% sure you can stop and take a well aimed shot while no one is looking at you, and never ever run in a straight line.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

I tried it before when streaks did 1.5dmg/missile. It was fine until streaks got a big buff. Great "legging" design tho.

[Krivvan]

It's great for dueling other lights at close range, but games usually have situations where having a max range of 90m isn't very helpful.

[Bront]

D1al T0ne, on 17 September 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

I regularly get 400+ damage with this setup and several matches with 600+ damage and 2-3 kills: JR7-F

Slightly better version IMHO: JR7-F. You lose 6 points of armor and get an extra JJ and the 300 XL engine.

Another option I may try is 2 MPLs and 4 SLs.

SLs and SPLs range sucks if you can't get close, so it's not the best scout mech, but it rocks up close.

Edited by Bront, 18 September 2013 - 07:53 AM.