211 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I decided to try out PPCs since the patch. With 12 standard heat syncs firing 2 at the same time was 47% of my heat for 20 damage. I'm better off with 1 AC 20 and a better engine to close to range.

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Yes but frontloading damage is only useful if you can boat a lot of weapons of the same type.

PPCs are now suffering from LRM syndrome... you cant just equip one LRM launcher and be effective. Likewise having only one PPC is ineffective when you could just boat 5 large lasers instead.

Totally agree with your LRM analogy. On my Treb I used to use 1 LRM 20 and it worked fine but these days it's a waste of space. The problem is that this game isn't MechWarrior or Battletech anymore.. but just a shoddy robot FPS.

Edited by lockwoodx, 10 September 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[Pale Jackal]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

I decided to try out PPCs since the patch. With 12 standard heat syncs firing 2 at the same time was 47% of my heat for 20 damage. I'm better off with 1 AC 20 and a better engine to close to range.

You lost all credibility when you stated you were using SHS, especially with 12 SHS. I understand if you don't have C-bills to upgrade your 'mech, but like it or not, SHS are awful.

[Rhaythe]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

The problem is that this game isn't MechWarrior or Battletech anymore.. but just a shoddy robot FPS.

*Whoosh!*



You called?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Pale Jackal, on 10 September 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

You lost all credibility when you stated you were using SHS, especially with 12 SHS. I understand if you don't have C-bills to upgrade your 'mech, but like it or not, SHS are awful.

Then understand I don't have the Cbills. Since every other match some 4 man sneaks into pugs and ruins it.. my Cbill gain for a casual player is VERY low.

Rhaythe, on 10 September 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

*Whoosh!*



You called?

I wouldn't be surprised if mechs start being able to "strafe" at the rate this game is going. Torso twisting isn't that much different when you think about it yet with armor still being useless the twisting doesn't save you much.

[Livewyr]

PPCs are finally where they should be. LRMs are finally where they should be. (except for total CT seeking)


I still see plenty of PPCs without seeing them on every single mech, I have some on my mechs.

(People just got real used to the weapon to have, so now that they're where they should be, it's tougher to use the 7-ton/unlimited-ammo/3 critslot AC10...)

[TheMagician]

PPCs are still effective, but you can't rely on them for every situation, like you could previously.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

TheMagician, on 10 September 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

PPCs are still effective, but you can't rely on them for every situation, like you could previously.

Are you sure you aren't talking about the Gauss? PPCs are running too hot and make Awesomes useless.....

[Joseph Mallan]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

I decided to try out PPCs since the patch. With 12 standard heat syncs firing 2 at the same time was 47% of my heat for 20 damage. I'm better off with 1 AC 20 and a better engine to close to range.



Totally agree with your LRM analogy. On my Treb I used to use 1 LRM 20 and it worked fine but these days it's a waste of space. The problem is that this game isn't MechWarrior or Battletech anymore.. but just a shoddy robot FPS.

It's this games stupid Solaris Heat mechanics and cyclic rates that is messing up how weapons and heat function per turn.One PPC and 12 sinks should leave you warm but dangerous for the whole game. Firing 2 PPCs on 12 sinks should shut you sown quite quickly.

[Khobai]

Quote

PPCs are finally where they should be. LRMs are finally where they should be.

Not really. LRMs are still poorly balanced and you have to boat them in atrocious numbers to have them be effective. Because you cant just have like one LRM10 or one LRM20 and have it be effective like a lot of stock mechs do in battletech.

Likewise PPCs now do absolutely nothing that massed large lasers cant do better.

[Karl Streiger]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Are you sure you aren't talking about the Gauss? PPCs are running too hot and make Awesomes useless.....

Well that isn't the problem of the PPC.... that is the problem of the heat system.
The PPCs are fine.
Really - reducing heat again - will only result in the abillity to Alpha Strike moar.

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

you have to boat them in atrocious numbers to have them be effective

That is the second problem....boating is good - not boating is bad

Edited by Karl Streiger, 10 September 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Itsalrightwithme]

DaZur, on 10 September 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

In an original post I suggested the if it's not going to do damage below 90m via the field inhibitor it just should not fire (like SSRMs without lock).

Below 90m it can still be useful for negating ECM temporarily. You can then target enemy mechs and relay that info. Or, use the time to lock Streaks and fire.

[Roland]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Are you sure you aren't talking about the Gauss? PPCs are running too hot and make Awesomes useless.....

I was having no trouble running my PPC Awesome.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Not really. LRMs are still poorly balanced and you have to boat them in atrocious numbers to have them be effective. Because you cant just have like one LRM10 or one LRM20 and have it be effective like a lot of stock mechs do in battletech.

Likewise PPCs now do absolutely nothing that massed large lasers cant do better.

Thats cause in BattleTech you are not moving in real time. If we don't expect tabletop results LRMs are working... OK. Not good, Good would allow 2 LRM20s to be pretty dangerous for any player to use directly and indirectly with a competent spotter.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Karl Streiger, on 10 September 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Well that isn't the problem of the PPC.... that is the problem of the heat system.
The PPCs are fine.
Really - reducing heat again - will only result in the abillity to Alpha Strike moar.

You can reduce heat plenty so long as you reduce travel time for the blobs of plasma. The problem is PGI wants this game to be for casual scrubs and if they'd only have the pair to make PPC s big nasty balls of death that travel slowly but wreck mechs if you're stupid enough to walk into the line of fire... eh... who am I kidding...

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Roland, on 10 September 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

I was having no trouble running my PPC Awesome.

The awesome has two useless choices now besides boating LLs... LRMS or PPCs... I still respect it as a mech but they are one of those "red headed stepchildren" of MWO that only arrogant pros will chime in on to claim they are fine.

Edited by lockwoodx, 10 September 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[DaZur]

Myopicy (Yes..I just made that up)

​Declaring stacked LLas are better than PPCs is just plain myopic...

​Yes, under the right circumstances, stacked LLas work better than PPCs. Conversely under different circumstances the opposite is true.

Your stacked LLas at 600m is a tough row to hoe if your target is moving... You're just not able hold your focus long enough to benefit from the stack and your damage will be all over the place. Your PPCs however have no problem dropping that 10 points of damage at that range assuming one can aim and lead.

That said... under 200m the opposite result becomes more relevant...

Each tool has a job and each job has it's tool...

Edited by DaZur, 10 September 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

ERLLs will change everything.

[LordBraxton]

I still run PPCs post nerf

they just dont feel like a 'win button' anymore

they feel like a weapon OPTION

[Dr Herbert West]

Mycrus, on 10 September 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

on the contrary, i love them now... as it takes skill to use them

i haz 4xERPPC on my AWS-8Q - on chain/dual fire of course

You're using an Awesome instead of a Stalker.

[Barantor]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

The awesome has two useless choices now besides boating LLs... LRMS or PPCs... I still respect it as a mech but they are one of those "red headed stepchildren" of MWO that only arrogant pros will chime in on to claim they are fine.

I use an 8Q with 2 ppcs and 2 LLs and it does 'ok' and I can get my snipe on now with the better enhanced zoom. Cleared out a Blackjacks cockpit that was dumb enough to stand still to hit me with ac/2s the other day, pretty good feeling.

The awesome has it's own problems that aren't necessarily linked to the ppc itself though. You do have to REALLY like the Awesome to want to run it though with it's barndoor style hitboxes.

PPCs are now 'ok' they aren't great like they used to be which is why I think a lot of folks are a little miffed. I can understand because it sucks to get used to one thing only for it to be changed drastically. LLs are definitely not a replacement, but they work on their own accord and I use them for mid range and the ppcs for distance shots.