211 replies to this topic

[General Taskeen]

Pale Jackal, on 10 September 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

You lost all credibility when you stated you were using SHS, especially with 12 SHS. I understand if you don't have C-bills to upgrade your 'mech, but like it or not, SHS are awful.

No, PGI lost credibility by poor programming of heatsinks.

[Joseph Mallan]

General Taskeen, on 10 September 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

No, PGI lost credibility by poor programming of heatsinks.

[MeiSooHaityu]

ERPPCs are a bit tricky when equipped with more than 1. The PPCs are still playable (even firing in pairs), but now the min range really punishes you.

It seems ok. It just isn't a boating weapon anymore.

[Gallowglas]

deanon, on 10 September 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

The heat cost is to high, never put out enough damage for them to be worth it, Large Lasers are pretty much allways better since they allow you to fire more.

Tried them with my highlander and 15 double heatsinks..

I wholeheartedly disagree. YMMV, but I think they're just about right at the moment. The only thing I don't like is the 90m minimum range on the standard PPC. Aside from that, I think it's in a good place and balance.

[Trauglodyte]

deanon, on 10 September 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

The heat cost is to high, never put out enough damage for them to be worth it, Large Lasers are pretty much allways better since they allow you to fire more.

Tried them with my highlander and 15 double heatsinks..

Wait! You paired multiple PPCs with a whopping 15 DHSs and then went to spamming them only to find that you had problems. Wow!

[oldradagast]

I don't know - using 1 PPC works fine for me now. It gives me an ammo-less tool to use at long ranges, it still flies fast enough to hit distant targets (unless they are moving at a high speed) and it still breaks ECM, allowing the team to see the enemy DDC or whatever.

So, while they are no longer THE weapon of the game, there's still a reason to put 1 on a mech.

[Universe Man]

EGH, on 10 September 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

finally there is a reason to use other weapons

That happened when they ruined the sound.

[PropagandaWar]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Except the skillcap on them hasnt changed at all. All that changed was the rate you could fire them.

PPCs are pretty useless now because other energy weapons, specifically large lasers, are outright better.

For the PPC to be a worthwhile weapon it needs to be able to do something that no other weapon can, which it currently doesnt.

Your right. It doesn't disrupt ECM, Have a Good Recyle Time, Great Range, Have the ability to do 10 points of damage to a single location. Have 2 at the same weight of a AC/20 and taking up less crit slots still or require ammo. Spot on the money there buddy. Spot on.

[L1f3H4ck]

Pale Jackal, on 10 September 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

You lost all credibility when you stated you were using SHS, especially with 12 SHS. I understand if you don't have C-bills to upgrade your 'mech, but like it or not, SHS are awful.

Try to understand:

PPC = 10 Heat
Running = 2 Heat
Total Number of SHS that should make the mech heat-efficient = 12

Ofc it doesn't work that way, and that's... sad.

[kapusta11]

I would pick 2xGauss over 3x(ER)PPC any day, seriously what advantage does it have, heat prevents you from shooting when you need to, basically it acts like a damage penalty, additional gost heat as a bonus.

[Dirus Nigh]

I was rather surprised to see that PGI pushed the heat on ER PPCs to 15. I thought 13 was an ok spot for them. However I can handle 15 heat so its really no big deal.

I honestly think the ER PPCs need to have a min range. It may not have it in battletech, but it is needed in a game like MWO. 120m would be fine. However the degrading damage at min range should be put back in. In closed beta, and i think for a few months in open beta, we had PPCs do no damage at min range. I would exploit this weakness ruthlessly when I found a mech with PPCs. giving a damage drop off would at least give a PPC user a small chance.

The increased heat of PPCs/ER, makes me think that ghost heat is just piling it on. Should it not be removed at this point? IF PGI raises the heat of Large lasers and AC20s back to TT levels will they keep ghost heat?

[CaveMan]

The change forced me to choose between having 2 PPCs or having an AC/20 on my K2, whereas before I had both and was chewing through people like a sabertooth tiger.

GOOD.

That's what the BattleTech universe is supposed to be like. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

/ultimately I changed to an AC/10 and 4 MLs so I could brawl without melting myself, and upped my engine rating and heat sink count

[Ghogiel]

I think the heat nerf was enough, the projectile speed changes might have been over the top though..

[Doomstryke]

Khobai usually I agree with most of what you say but on this one your way off.

Plus i think the OP meant erppc which yah is brutally hot but I can still run 2 of them fired together and do alright. You just have to change your play style to be at max range at all times to deal with the heat.

As for regualar ppc's they work just as before and are not really any different. 2 heat isn't going to really change anything. PPC's are still way better then a large laser the second your over the 90 m limit simply because 10 points to one spot vs painting which I don't care how steady your aim it. If your firing at a light or anything that moves over 65 your not gona keep the beam on one spot the whole time

FYI my 2 favorite mechs right now are my K2 with dual ppc's and dual ac5s and my cat C1 with 2 erppc's and 2 medium lasers. Most rounds still finish north 500 damage easy

Edited by Doomstryke, 10 September 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Almond Brown]

FactorlanP, on 10 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Personally, I think they should have left PPCs doing reduced damage below 90m. But to balance it, they should do the inverse damage to the firing mech.

So, at 89m, they would do (arbitrary number) 90% damage to the target mech and 10% damage to the shooting mech.

At 45m, the damage would be 50/50.

At less than 45m range, the shooting mech would take MORE damage than the target mech.

All caused by the feedback when shooting below minimum range.

Wow, and I heard how everyone hates the Ghost Heat system as arbitrary and overly complex for the newbs. LOL! Well done.

[Almond Brown]

Frechdachs, on 10 September 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

Try to understand:

PPC = 10 Heat
Running = 2 Heat
Total Number of SHS that should make the mech heat-efficient = 12

Ofc it doesn't work that way, and that's... sad.

Actually, build that Mech, fire that PPC while running, then count to 10 in your noggin, then check your Heat gauge. That fact that you didn't try that is what's sad.

[Iron War]

Hmm . . . the projectile speed of a Partical accelerator is slower then some AC/Gauss ballistics . . . thats not right.
This is a PPC and should have a projectile near the speed of light.
http://science.howst...om-smasher2.htm

In lore it was discribed as man made lightning . . . i guess it would have to be realy realy slow lightning.
The Guinness Book of Answers indicates maximum speeds of lightning around 87,000 miles per second.
http://wiki.answers....ed_of_lightning

Hmm PPCs should be an instant projectile . . . or they should define it as something else.

Edited by Iron War, 10 September 2013 - 11:44 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Khobai usually I agree with most of what you say but on this one your way off.

So then you think PPCs are viable? Because from my perspective Large Lasers are outright better. The difference between 7 and 10 heat means you can boat lasers but not ppcs. So theres no reason to use ppcs.

MWO is still about boating, nothing has changed that, and until something does change that the best loadouts are going to be ones that boat weapons. Right now its UAC/5s and LLs that are the best two options for ballistic and energy respectively.

[Vodrin Thales]

kapusta11, on 10 September 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

I would pick 2xGauss over 3x(ER)PPC any day, seriously what advantage does it have, heat prevents you from shooting when you need to, basically it acts like a damage penalty, additional gost heat as a bonus.

Advantages: unlimited ammo, disruption of ECM, don't have to charge it before firing, much less weight for the weapon system (although with heat sinks required is admittedly similar), and doesn't explode immediately once armor is lost on that section.

Disadvantage is excess heat production. When I put it that way it seems somewhat balanced, doesn't it?

[Ngamok]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 September 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

It front loads energy damage. I think that is unique enough for an energy weapon.

And disrupts ECM which no other energy weapon does.