77 replies to this topic

[audi man]

You can play prms lots of different ways. Depends on the mech and the pilot.

Personally, I never do very well using lrms in an indirect fire support mode. Consequently, I almost never use lrm 15 and never lrm20 anymore as the recycle time is too long, the heat generated too high, and the volley spread too wide.

Instead i mount lrm 10 or 5, and use them when engageing within visual range and optimally for me, between 700 and 300m.

Over many, many matches, despite everything, My weapon stats tell me that basically 35% of my lrms hit the targets. I think in more recent times that number is climbing a bit as I have been doing better than that with my AWS-8R and 4 lrm10 mounted on it. Matches in that mech usually see me netting 5-800dmg, and I take 1080lrms to the field. Again, I put this down to engaging within that optimal range and also using the lrm10 for a tighter grouping.

I also find I am more effective chainfiring them in this configuration.

[audi man]

Shar Wolf, on 12 September 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Does a dumb-fired LRM trigger AMS?

Only times I have remembered that I could, I have been firing at those who do not mount it...

I seem to remember being told that SRM do not trigger AMS...
If not, then would the trigger for AMS activation be the activation of the missile lock? (would that even work with friendly AMS cover??)
If that is so, then would dumb-firing get around that or do I yet again not have a clue what I am talking about.

I am sure i've seen one or two srms get AMS'd if their flight path is long enough.

[Alaskan Nobody]

gldgti, on 12 September 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

I am sure i've seen one or two srms get AMS'd if their flight path is long enough.

I do not really use them that often so I wouldn't know (accidentally sold off my Commando I mounted them on >.<)- thanks for the update though.

Anyone have more details?

[VIPER2207]

first: i don't think LRMs are useless, quite the contrary. in the right hands, if you know how to use them, in the right mech, if you know which targets to shoot and which not, they can be pretty bada**. the become even better if you have a good spotter on your side.
95% of my games are single PUGs, and i mostly perform well with them.

one mech nobody mentioned until now, is the AWS-8R... i call mine the Rain Doctor
this beast can put out 60 missiles in a single volley (you will get a heat penalty if you alphastrike all your launchers, so know when to do it and when not), has a good amount of armor and enough tonnage to bring loads of ammo. i don't have a screenshot now, but i think my maximum damage in a match was something between 900 and 1000, with 5 kills and 6 assists. just don't let anything get closer than 180m, and don't get focused.

scJazz, on 12 September 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

In the right hands they can be devastating. Having said that... they aren't even remotely easy to use well.

This
CPLT-A1 SmartCat
Did this (PUG only, no TAG)

Spoiler

dude, that's awesome... thums up

[Eaerie]

I think of LRM's as a means of softening a target as you and your team close to engage it. How effective that is depends on how much AMS there is near the target (or the path your LRM's take) and the mech you are shooting at. bigger slower mechs tend to get hit by more missles from a volley, while smaller faster mechs can outrun the volley/only get hit by a small number of the missles.
I do not use em as the sole means of dealing damage, mainly because I do play lights and faster mechs and LOVE to come across a mech sporting only LRM's. just get in there face and own them.

[Revorn]

LRMs are nice Weapons, at least the Sound and Optic. But its Effect depends much on your Enemys Abbility and Equipment to handle them. Vs good Ones, your Dammage are maybe around 60 dmg, while vs. not so good Ones, you can score around 600 dmg+. Not to forget that youself have to know what to do.

So you can count it as an verry unstable Weapon in Terms of DMG and Effect.

Edited by Revorn, 13 September 2013 - 04:39 AM.

[scJazz]

Shar Wolf, on 12 September 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Does a dumb-fired LRM trigger AMS?

Yes

[Enigmos]

Bear in mind that I am not an LRM specialist, but I have tried using them and I work with my numbers. I will share those numbers with you.
Type | fired | hit | accuracy | damage | damage/hit | cycle | cyc/10 sec | dam/10 | #tubes | value
LRM20 | 42503 | 9457 | 22% | 9463 | 1.000634 | 4.75 | 2.105263 | 2.106599 | 20 | 9.37
LRM15 | 37680 | 7908 | 21% | 9021 | 1.140774 | 4.25 | 2.352941 | 2.684102 | 15 | 8.45
LRM10 | 23499 | 5176 | 22% | 5583 | 1.078632 | 3.75 | 2.666667 | 2.684102 | 10 | 6.34
LRM05 | 16185 | 3689 | 23% | 4155 | 1.126321 | 3.25 | 3.076923 | 3.465605 | 5 | 3.94

In comparison here are my numbers for SRM6
SRM06 | 51566 | 23710 | 46% | 51885 | 2.188317 | 4.00 | 2.5 | 5.470793 | 6 | 15.09

Note: the end value is calculated by multiplying my accuracy times the potential for damage delivered over ten seconds continuous fire. Increase accuracy on a weapon system and you increase its value to you in combat. After staying alive (e.g. using cover), improving your accuracy is the best way to increase the amount of damage you deliver over the duration of the match, far outweighing which loadout you are carrying so long as your loadout isn't absurd (such as failing to equip enough ammunition). To improve your accuracy with LRMs is a complex task, including overcoming AMS by mass firing, firing on target-locked targets and holding that target until the missiles detonate, firing only on targets between 180m out and 1000m out, and firing only on targets that are not in cover.

And remember: shots fired at teammates who get in the way subtract from the amount of time you have to score damage on the opposition. Avoid TK, even if it means tolerating your buddies inadvertently shielding the opponent in their eagerness for the kill. Move to where you do have a clear shot and then let 'em have it. You might need that teammate later.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 13 September 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[Selfish]

I use an Awesome 8R as well. It's the penultimate missile boat. 60 Tubes, best TAG in the game, and a shield arm for dueling other missile boats. You just can't beat it for boating. None of that will really change, no matter how much ghost heat they throw at it. The AMS system, indirect application of LRMs, and current hit detection require you to bring alpha or waste your efforts. ECM requires the use of TAG, which invalidates mechs like the A-1 as being good at missile boating. Other than that, boating is just expensive. You NEED a target decay module. It's not negotiable at 'high levels of play'. With ghost heat, Cool Shots are even more important to use well, and you'll find them a constant drain on your resources.

Stats wise I do fine, and I have experience with LRMs in premades.

Tactically, you should hold off on just firing LRMS at the nearest red blip as soon as they appear. Early game you're setting up to exploit the upcoming brawl, not playing footsie with opponents in cover and giving your position away to ECM lights. The brawl is where it's at. It's one of the few times where even veterans won't have much of a choice to mitigate damage, as they're already worried about the several opponents in front of them. You should spend some time setting that up and it'll pay off more than not. The only time you should be firing indirectly is if you know you have a shot on the opponent for the several seconds travel time will take, and if the enemy team already knows you exist.

[Enigmos]

Thanks for posting that, Selfish: Good tips in there!

[Lightfoot]

You need TAG and BAP with Artemis. LRM25 will do low/moderate damage with TAG, but definately helps your main weapon attack. And once the armor is gone LRMs have a critical hit bonus. So not a waste, but not a good main weapon.

[VIPER2207]

Selfish, on 13 September 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Tactically, you should hold off on just firing LRMS at the nearest red blip as soon as they appear. Early game you're setting up to exploit the upcoming brawl, not playing footsie with opponents in cover and giving your position away to ECM lights. The brawl is where it's at. It's one of the few times where even veterans won't have much of a choice to mitigate damage, as they're already worried about the several opponents in front of them. You should spend some time setting that up and it'll pay off more than not. The only time you should be firing indirectly is if you know you have a shot on the opponent for the several seconds travel time will take, and if the enemy team already knows you exist.

+1 for this
Addition: if you have the choice between a big target (in my opinion centurion [because of bad scaling =(] and anything heavier) and a small mech (cicada and anything lighter, i'm not sure where to count the blackjack), shoot the big guys first, if there is no tactical need to annoy the lights. the bigger your target is, there more damage you will deliver. on small targets, some of your missiles will miss the mech because of the spread, and the fast ones will additionaly be able to outrun your missiles. put an additional AMS to this calculation, and your damage will tend to zero. and by shooting light, fast mechs, you take the risk that they will close in on you, and then you will have some serious problems.

TLDR: assaults are the preferred targets for LRMs

[Johnny Reb]

Well I play all types of mechs boating all weapons. That said, I am very fond of LRM boats, to a fault somewhat, as my merc corp has sorta typecast myself or one other mate in that role. If we bring a lrm boat to a 12 man it is only one dedicated or a couple hybrids.
In my opinion, effective lrm use is more about tactical awareness and proper mech setup to begin with as anyone can wait for a lock and shoot missiles. In addition, lrms have a dedicated counter in the game, AMS, then additional counters like ecm, ecm in range of a lrm mech with no bap will completely diable lock-on. Thus, you need additional equipment to properly outfit a LRM boat, bap, tag and artemis. Finally, LRM boating require extreme tonnage dedicated to both ammo and the launchers themselves.
To top it off, in 12 man groups you are much more dependent on your scouts for targets and your enemy knows how to avoid/minimize your missiles, making them suppression in the beginning mainly. LRM's are devastating in 12 man if you can support your brawlers with it as the enemy will melt from the combined attacks. Thus, I try to run only slightly behind my brawlers. In pugs I am entirely dependent of myself and hope for a good lrm map.
Finally, I run my dedicated LRM boat as a Highlander with 50tubes(I mainly use my lrm on chain-fire to avoid ghost heat) with anywhere between 10-13 tons of ammo and all the fixings (tag,bap,artemis).

Edit: Heh typed to much, As to the question, depends if you think you can do it well, if so then lrm away away if not stick to the other two wep typs!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 14 September 2013 - 12:21 AM.

[The Bionic Platypus]

I agree with anyone who says to use both TAG and Artemis. Not only will your damage go up (justifying your ammo slots), but your team will be happier, too. Running LRMs without them creates too many situations where friendly fire can occur. I never hear complaints when using TAG and Artemis, but the last time I got greedy and ran LRM20s without... oh boy... not good...

[MortVent]

Well since I usually use my lrms from hull down spots if possible (aka from cover where just my cats arms stick over it...) a tag laser in the torso isn't going to help any. And on the one that would help no energy slots! Which is actually my usual ride, but I do fit ams and beagle on them all

[Koniving]

OldOrgandonor, on 12 September 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

To the OP, how about trying 2 ERLL's, 3 ML's, and 3 or 4 SRM 6's? Maybe try just ditching the LRM's all together.

Careful, evidently 3 is the limit you can alpha strike for SRM-6s.

Oh, and I took my ROFLpult out for another spin.



So I'll be trying out my own version of the smart cat soon. Anyone got the link to the original mention of where I said I'd try it and showed my own changes? That'd be handy.

Edited by Koniving, 13 September 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Plz dont try the above build, you will fail! He has no armor and fails in many ways! Then, they rip him up!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 14 September 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[scJazz]

Koniving, on 13 September 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

So I'll be trying out my own version of the smart cat soon. Anyone got the link to the original mention of where I said I'd try it and showed my own changes? That'd be handy.

I could have sworn it was in StarGeezer's thread since he was working on Catapult C1 and was asking about A1 or C1

[Unnatural Growth]

Kon,

You're right about the heat penalty. When I run the 4 SRM 6 build, I key bind 2 launchers each to 2 separate weapon keys. Then no ghost heat. The 3 SRM 6 build I have all 3 tied to one weapon key. I should probably change that too, as the delay from the one launcher with a bay door tends to mess up my spread, unless the enemy is stationary or coming straight on/away from me.

[MnDragon]

Koniving, I know this is off-topic...but how did you get the "Missiles Everywhere" patch on your bay door? Is that a founders mech or on the Champion?