77 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

Firing 30 missiles per volley is okay, but AMS can eat it up. Once you get up to the 50 missile per volley (as in all of them fly at the same time or close) then people are going to start wondering how that truck fell from the sky and hit them.

If you are carrying token LRMs (5-10) then they are good for getting assists from long range and for helping targets that are out of LOS for you while you close in, but not really a reliable killing weapon.

[King Arthur IV]

im finding them to be a little weak.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Elizander, on 14 September 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

for helping targets that are out of LOS for you while you close in

That is about what I use mine for.

Elizander, on 14 September 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

but not really a reliable killing weapon.

and unless there is no AMS on the other side I cannot really argue with that.

Edit: Typo

Edited by Shar Wolf, 14 September 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Rasc4l]

Unfortunately currently one has to boat LRMs for them to be effective. Not just that but they have to enhanced with artemis+tag+lots of ammo if you want to really use them. I don't really see experienced players bringing just one LRM10-20 with their brawler build to have long range effectiveness. That is still done with PPCs.

I haven't read all the thread pages but basically I wouldn't go for the LRM20+LRM5 combo or something like that. Actually I don't use either, LRM20 nor LRM5. LRM5 salvo is too small and why put LRM20 because LRM15 has better tubes/tonnage ratio (the best of all LRMs).

So with these in mind, I run my Stalker LRM boats with 2xLRM10 and 2xLRM15. In that order. The point is to get as much lead in the air as possible but also avoid AMS. I feel that launching a couple of LRM5 with LRM20 to saturate AMS before the actual salvo isn't that great. LRM10 have relatively short charging time so the point is to shoot 2xLRM10 and then after ~0.5s 2xLRm15 and by then LRM10s are almost charged and can be fire again. I also find that this saves ammo, because with LRM20s when the lock doesn't hold, it's gone.

Many matches have started in this stalker with me coring the enemy scout at 500-800 m with violent TAG-directed LRM+artermis salvos.

[VIPER2207]

MnDragon, on 14 September 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Koniving, I know this is off-topic...but how did you get the "Missiles Everywhere" patch on your bay door? Is that a founders mech or on the Champion?

It's the buccaneer-pattern

[Koniving]

OldOrgandonor, on 14 September 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Kon,

You're right about the heat penalty. When I run the 4 SRM 6 build, I key bind 2 launchers each to 2 separate weapon keys. Then no ghost heat. The 3 SRM 6 build I have all 3 tied to one weapon key. I should probably change that too, as the delay from the one launcher with a bay door tends to mess up my spread, unless the enemy is stationary or coming straight on/away from me.

Good idea. Because, as mentioned in the recent ROFLPULT vid, large clusters of SRM6s don't hit-detect anyway. Before it was necessary and before the HSR, I'd chain fire them as an anti-light weapon and people would ask me how I got "Streak SRM-6s" (glee) while using my Awesome 8R. I miss those days. Now for some recent reason you haven't got a chance to hit lights with SRMs, but you still get better hit detection with them fired in smaller volleys anyway.

MnDragon, on 14 September 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Koniving, I know this is off-topic...but how did you get the "Missiles Everywhere" patch on your bay door? Is that a founders mech or on the Champion?

As said by someone, it's the Buccaneer pattern. It says something different for the C4 (Warning: Incoming Missiles) and K2 (BZZT!) as well. Sadly A1 and C1 are identical in saying "Missiles Everywhere!"

scJazz, on 14 September 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

I could have sworn it was in StarGeezer's thread since he was working on Catapult C1 and was asking about A1 or C1

Thought it was a separate one, but will look for it. Thanks!

Edited by Koniving, 15 September 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[StarGeezer]

After much trial-and-error (mostly the latter) with running missile boats, I may have hit upon something of a happy accident. Particularly in the wild-and-woolly world of PUG's, I found that my survivability actually went up considerably if I actually embedded myself with the brawlers. Where they went, I went. If they capped, I followed. They provided protection for me if stuff came close, and I in turn rained down white-hot rocket-y death from afar. It was the discovery of a wonderful symbiosis; we both benefited from actually running together and acting as...what's the word I'm looking for...a team, maybe?

Whoda thunk it?!

[Fuerchtegott]

When 6 mechs stick together, all equiped with an AMS, and someone fires one volley lrm 5 at them, what happens?


In generall, lrm aren't easy to use, great fun and off great use to your team.

And that's the downside of lrm. In a pug game, often teams make lrm useless.


btw Awesome is awesome because he uses his head (!) when used as a lrm boat.
Best taglaser position ever!


And while postition is the key, as many here told, speed is important.

Edited by Fuerchtegott, 14 September 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[scJazz]

StarGeezer, on 14 September 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

After much trial-and-error (mostly the latter) with running missile boats, I may have hit upon something of a happy accident. Particularly in the wild-and-woolly world of PUG's, I found that my survivability actually went up considerably if I actually embedded myself with the brawlers. Where they went, I went. If they capped, I followed. They provided protection for me if stuff came close, and I in turn rained down white-hot rocket-y death from afar. It was the discovery of a wonderful symbiosis; we both benefited from actually running together and acting as...what's the word I'm looking for...a team, maybe?

Whoda thunk it?!

Most people play Lurmers as some kind of Artillery piece. Spawn advance minimum possible distance, on River City - Upper this can mean 100m, stand and press Fire while occasionally pressing Lock. Lurming isn't Artillery!

Lurming is the Grenadier in a Rifle Squad. He isn't the dude in front. He is hanging out with the Machine Gunner. He shoots whatever the MG shoots keeping that target pinned, suppressed, and whenever possible... panicked

[Bront]

In a Stalker, I've found LRMs are somewhat of a necessity for early support combat simply because you're so slow. In a balanced build (very effective) of the 3F, I usually run 2 LRM 20s that fire when I feel I've got a solid lock or to help suppress. If I'm not boating them, I don't carry a lot of ammo for them, but I still find them generally useful to soften up targets and support the faster mechs, or to play defense if I'm too far away to contribute with direct fire.

For a missile boat Stalker (Other than the 4H), I feel you've got 2 options.
Option1 - LRM10s in the arms and 5 in the Torsos, which gives you 30-35 missiles per launch (The M gets an extra LRM5), mount TAG, and then carry some LLs or other additoinal firepower.

Option2 - LRM 15 or 20 in the arms, and LRM 10s in the Torso. LRM15s means you launch 1 volley of 30 (35 in the 5M), and a second volley of 20 (25 in the 5M). LRM20s mean you launch 2 volleys of 30 (35 in the 5M). Still, be sure to mount tag and you should still have room for a few MLs.

Option 1 is still more balanced and more ammo efficient, but Option 2 probably makes for a better overall support Missile boat.

Artemis is up to you. I generally like it, but I haven't run it on my stalker yet (I only own the 3F, when I get a 5M I plan on mounting it there). On my Catapult C4, I found I could run Artemis, Tag and only needed 2 LRM15s to be effective.

[Earl White]

LRMs much more effective in premades than randoms, and even firing 60 missile volleys you won't often get higher damage than you would in a brawler build. However the LRM boats can force enemies to either retreat, or for them to change direction of attack, so it's a much more disruptive weapon than any other. It's also the most annoying weapon to be hit by en masse due to the insane screen shake.

[MortVent]

Earl White, on 15 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

LRMs much more effective in premades than randoms, and even firing 60 missile volleys you won't often get higher damage than you would in a brawler build. However the LRM boats can force enemies to either retreat, or for them to change direction of attack, so it's a much more disruptive weapon than any other. It's also the most annoying weapon to be hit by en masse due to the insane screen shake.

yep.. though one random 8 of us were launching indirect LRM fire at a mech Boy was he rocked.. and quickly killed

Helpful hints:
1 - Make sure your locks will not fade away (taget decay module at level 2 is a must!)
2 - Chain vs alpha fire. To get tighter impact patterns, means more missiles are going to hit.
3 - LOS firing means you know you got that lock held
4 - Move between slavos asap... lights will home in on you (and in pugs you likely don't have someone there to kill them... I miss the light mech killer configed trebuchet that tagged along one game)
5 - expect some games to be low damage due to AMS, poor locks, and just all around murphy love

[Bront]

Earl White, on 15 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

LRMs much more effective in premades than randoms, and even firing 60 missile volleys you won't often get higher damage than you would in a brawler build. However the LRM boats can force enemies to either retreat, or for them to change direction of attack, so it's a much more disruptive weapon than any other. It's also the most annoying weapon to be hit by en masse due to the insane screen shake.

It can depend on the PUG. I've had some pretty massive games with LRMs as a PUG. Honestly, I've found LRMs are more effective if multiple mechs are using them, and it also is highly dependent on AMS usage (which is down right now since LRM usage is down).

Special note to LRM Boats: If you don't call out to your team something to indicate "I'm an LRM Boat, and I need you to hold targets", don't get mad when a PUG group doesn't hold targets. You still may not get help, but there are plenty of knowledgeable people who PUG and will lock when they don't normally (Why you wouldn't normally, I don't know), or hang in for the extra second of a lock for the LRM boats.

Basically, PUGs can be ugly and uncordinated, but don't expect it to always be the case, nor assume that they will be.

[Bront]

MortVent, on 15 September 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

2 - Chain vs alpha fire. To get tighter impact patterns, means more missiles are going to hit.

Situational. Chainfire isn't always tighter, depending on TAG/Narc and Artemis locks, and AMS will eat chainfire missiles much easier. I suggest alphaing early due to team AMS, and chain fire later to conserve ammo once you know a mech doesn't have AMS.

Honestly, I found alpha to almost always be more effective, even when dumbfiring (which is a skill in and of itself).

[mailin]

I actually chain fire. At the beginning of a match when I am in my missile boat, I usually announce that "I have 1800 lrms looking for a new home." I have 5 lrm 5s with Artemis, TAG, BAP and 4 mplas in my Stalker. I found that AMS doesn't always stop an lrm 5, but it has to go through a lot of ammo in order to get those 5 missiles. My initial goal is actually to make the enemy use up their ams, and by chain firing I can keep up a near-constant stream of lrm love on my enemies without having to worry about overheating. When firing on enemies far away I try to see how many mechs are taking out my lrms. Sometimes I will stop firing if there are too many working on my missiles. I am always trying to focus on whoever is closest to me, so unless two lights come at me at the same time there isn't too much to worry about. My biggest challenge when pugging is pugs not hold the lock initially.

[Felio]

I have tried using them and I have noticed one of two things happens:

1) A target acquired by someone else isn't held long enough for my missiles to reach it.

2) A target acquired by me starts beating the {Scrap} out of me before my missiles can reach it, and I have to break the lock.

I've basically decided I can use missile hardpoints for streaks or nothing.

Edited by Felio, 15 September 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[StarGeezer]

Felio, on 15 September 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

I have tried using them and I have noticed one of two things happens:

1) A target acquired by someone else isn't held long enough for my missiles to reach it.

2) A target acquired by me starts beating the {Scrap} out of me before my missiles can reach it, and I have to break the lock.

I've basically decided I can use missile hardpoints for streaks or nothing.

Learning to effectively use LRM's requires a certain degree of finesse and patience. It's typically not a good idea to immediately launch salvos at a target without determining first if you have a solid lock. A good rule of thumb is to give a good solid 3-count once your circles have gone red before hitting your fire button. This applies primarily to those targets that are being "designated" by your teammates by their target locks. If you have line-of-sight and ECM isn't attempting to shake your lock, feel free to let him have it with all tubes.

As far as coming under fire while your missiles are in flight, try to keep your target locked while seeking cover from the offending fire. You can retain lock even from behind buildings, rocks, etc. so long as your targeting circles remain red. This can't always be done, and in that case you have to decide whether it's more important to cut-and-run into cover or eat a few rounds while you maintain lock until impact.

LRM's don't have that immediate gratification component that ballistics or energy weapons provide, but the satisfaction of watching your target start to glow red and ultimately melt under your assault from afar is totally worth it.

[Roughneck45]

No.

LRM's rely more on your target's incompetence than you personal skill with the weapon.

As your ELO gets higher LRM's get worse.

That's my take on them anyway.

Edited by Roughneck45, 16 September 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

It is a common misconception that LRMs make for easy kills. The only situation in which LRM kills are easy are when your target is caught in the open, or is very unintelligent. While they make a great support tool for large mechs, there are many other weapons that perform better at actually killing enemies.

Ideally, you don't want to boat them, or the boat becomes very vulnerable, and can only offer one type of damage. A type of damage which is easily avoided in most situations. A single ALRM15/20 on a mech becomes an impressive suppression and long-range support device to go with your other dakka. With nothing but LRMs, you will only get random kills and damage, and become easily overwhelmed.

[rdmgraziel]

20 is if you want it to just be a suppression and "when I have a shot", and the only situation where that seems practical is on an Assault Mech. (upgraded Stalker 3F but with the stock weapons as an example). The LRMs are just there so you have something to do while you stomp into range with your REAL payload.

If you want to dedicate yourself to it, you MUST have: TAG, BAP, Artemis, Target Decay, be capable of putting at *least* 30 into the air in a single volley, and you'll want at MINIMUM around 8 tons of ammo, AND at least 2-3 backup weapons, preferably medium lasers (for their raw efficiency, although you can make do with Machine Guns on say the Jager A).

As a result, do NOT try to LRM boat in an Atlas. The tube limits negate the ability of the Atlas to do it as efficiently as an Awesome, Stalker, Highlander, Catapult or even a Trebuchet, since outside of the DDC you'll be throwing out 30 LRMs in multiple volleys, which means you can more readily be shut-down by AMS, and even the DDC can only get 26 out in a single volley.