254 replies to this topic

[The Boz]

Yeah.
These guys.
Lost my three games in a row because of ******* like these.
How do you convince people that Assault is not team deathmatch? That you're critical, out of ammo, and would rather cap than fight because you can't fight any more? That we are at a disadvantage in combat because our Stalker disconnected? That it's smarter to cap if we're 100m away from it, then spend the next ten minutes searching around the map for the two Jenners, while risking them capping us?
I blame the humongously ******** Cbill reward system for this. Because tagging enemies with machine guns helps the team more than starting to capture the enemy base and causing half their mechs to turn around and get disorganized.
A win is a win is a win.
...Morons.

[Farix]

The c-bill rewards do put too much emphases in combat and hardly any on other roles. But until PGI does a complete overhaul of the rewards system, people will continue to complain about teammates who play smartly rather than thoughtlessly go into battle.

[Errinovar]

Agreed.

If you are solo dropping, don't bother to try to convince them.. just do it. Half the time you will get a team that understands the value, the rest of the time... well you know.

[The Boz]

Errinovar, on 14 September 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

Agreed.

If you are solo dropping, don't bother to try to convince them.. just do it. Half the time you will get a team that understands the value, the rest of the time... well you know.

I try to do this, but when I cap 60% of the base and then die because my entire torso was critical, my arm was lost, and my laser was gone, the capless team rejoices because the capping noob got himself killed. And then they die one by one. And then I am the one who lost them the game, because I refused to participate in combat with a full critical Atlas that only has one ERLL left...

[Tyranum]

It isn't deathmatch...I agree with this statement, but it IS ASSAULT so, to me, capping is a last resort. As The Boz said...out of ammo, critical or whatever, hell, even losing the game and the odds are being stacked against you...definitely cap. Win!
But I am that ******* when you dart from the starting location to cap. I worked hard to buy/build this mech and I want to fight with it. I waited in the que for the game to load then start up, and now I've walked halfway across the map looking for someone to shoot...and "you", in your raven (hypothetical example), just ran to the opposite base to cap before the game even started. I'll tell you "DON"T CAP!!"...but I NEVER use the word "noob" that is for idiots and 12 year olds trying to be 'tough'.

A win is NOT a win, but I agree there is a time for capping....absolutely.

[Urdnot Mau]

I usually don't complain about winning, but when my team mates start a cap at 3 minutes of game, yeah i don't think it's cool.
In capwarrior matches nobody wins cBills. NOBODY. It's plain waste of time and i don't like to waste my time. I don't play the game to stand on a square, because that's no fun. I don't use mechs made to stand in a square, i usually use mediums or heavies and i equip them for combat, not for cap.

Now... If my team is losing (let's say 10 x 5 or worse), then i agree that capping is probably the only solution. PLUS, if you're that hurt and you're the only one capping and the match is still in the beggining or going well for your team, your probably better off capping about 90% and then leaving the cap alone, since your team mates have a better chance of getting more xp and cBills fighting than completing the cap.

[Sabazial]

I'll often start a cap early in the game in my jenner / spider to try and peel off some of their lights or heavies from the main battle, but i usually leave their base at around 95% as that's usually enough to get the enemy teams attention.

I also announce this in team chat before starting the cap, but yes there's nothing more annoying than 3 mins of game time passed and being in the middle of a great battle, to see some random cap the base for a win / loss.

[John Buford]

If you re capping it all depends on the situation at the moment. As a Light I deserve the right to Cap any time I want, but be aware I will not stay there for the win. I am doing it to pull other Mechs off the line of battle to give my team an advantage. Note to the Heavys and Assualts this can be a good time to push. Sometimes I will wait a bit to start the process so they think its a bigger mech that is trying to Cap instead of a light. If you are any type of mech and mostly dead, or out of Ammo but are still mobile go for, gives them something worry about.

When you shouldn't Cap. You are the Atlas who went Tunnel to avoid combat and are now sitting on the Base. You are that group of heavys on one of the smaller maps that also avoided combat. Now to both of these you do know there is more than enough time for the Red team to beat down the rest of us and kill you since you stationary in a small little square.

[Navy Sixes]

Tyranum, on 14 September 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

it IS ASSAULT
I worked hard to buy/build this mech and I want to fight with it.
A win is NOT a win, but I agree there is a time for capping....absolutely.

...and the primary objective of assault is to capture the enemy's base. If the enemy all just stood there and let you shoot them for the win, is that your fault? So why is it the capper's fault if the other team lets them cap for the win?

You need to work harder. Build it faster. If it's taking you forever to get halfway across a map, RTB is out of the question, and the enemy can disengage and reengage with you at will, your mech is waaaay to slow. And as far as I'm concerned, players who chose to play slow have almost no grounds to complain about alternate play-styles. Basically, you chose to drop a tiny engine in your heavy/assault so you could shoehorn-in that extra AC20/UAC/ERPPC/whatever. Now you're zipping around the battlefield at about 40kph, suggesting that it's wrong for anyone to win the game in any way that doesn't involve them giving you a chance to shoot them. That's weak tea, my friend.

The time for an early, easy cap is when the enemy's planning or lack thereof makes an early, easy cap possible.

[Earl White]

Tycho von Gagern, on 14 September 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Basically, you chose to drop a tiny engine in your heavy/assault so you could shoehorn-in that extra AC20/UAC/ERPPC/whatever. Now you're zipping around the battlefield at about 40kph, suggesting that it's wrong for anyone to win the game in any way that doesn't involve them giving you a chance to shoot them. That's weak tea, my friend.

The time for an early, easy cap is when the enemy's planning or lack thereof makes an early, easy cap possible.

Tiny engine? Even with an upgraded engine and an elite Assault mech you are lucky to get over 60kph, that is still not enough to beat a cap rusher due to the insane capping speed when enough mechs get in there.

As for "lack of planning" how exactly do you plan for a cap rush in a random game? Often it's pure chance that a cap rush pays off, you end up walking opposite sides of the map and hey presto, only the lighter faster mechs can go back to defend, and they will die because there is too much firepower to face, it doesn't help that mech types can be extremely randomized on each team.

The times you try to stay back and defend as an assault or heavy mech, you are losing a lot of firepower on the frontlines (when you don't know if the enemy is even gonna try and cap your base). If the enemy doesn't cap, well that means you turn up a few minutes late to the battle, which makes your contribution for defense null and void.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Capping tactically is a sound plan, and forces the enemy team to often split up as some rush back to defend and others try rushing to your base. The problem is people rarely defend when they do this so it can easily go very bad when the OTHER team rushes and in the end, everyone gets a terrible paycheck.

Its especially bad if your trying to take advantage of your daily bonus, nothing says doh like burning your 2x XP win on a cap zerg game.

[Rovertoo]

*Ahem*

Shooting things is fun.

Capping things is not fun.

That is why you should not do it.

[Cerlin]

As long as the people capping is my assault lance with zero battle damage while the rest of the team got ruined I think it is a good strategy. There are times when capping is the only option when the last 6 baddies are assaults and you have 2 mediums, a heavy, and a light. It punishes teams without balance but it should not be the first move from the start.

[Mao of DC]

I, like a lot of veteran players, use capping as a tactic to split up the enemy forces. I usually do this when I'm piloting a light mech. I try not to win that way if I can help it. Although if I am capping by myself and my team is just getting beat like a slave. I can end up being a hero because I win the match for my side. I mean who doesn't want to be a hero. I do agree though killing everyone is more fun. The other thing I do if the enemy starts capping and we stop it. I feel it gives me licence to win by cap irregardless of what mech I am piloting. It is funny though the number of players who start capping then get killed. Then B***h about losing to cap.

Edited by Mao of DC, 14 September 2013 - 11:02 PM.

[TheNose]

The Boz, on 14 September 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

Yeah.
These guys.
Lost my three games in a row because of ******* like these.
How do you convince people that Assault is not team deathmatch? That you're critical, out of ammo, and would rather cap than fight because you can't fight any more? That we are at a disadvantage in combat because our Stalker disconnected? That it's smarter to cap if we're 100m away from it, then spend the next ten minutes searching around the map for the two Jenners, while risking them capping us?
I blame the humongously ******** Cbill reward system for this. Because tagging enemies with machine guns helps the team more than starting to capture the enemy base and causing half their mechs to turn around and get disorganized.
A win is a win is a win.
...Morons.

Just tell them, they are lucky, because they don't have to play anylonger than needed with you.
Ask them, if they are capable of reading the rules and their abstract thinking ability is devolped enough to come up with some tactics that are more complex than "shot what's under triangle, ugha, ugha".

Or do what i do, just cap the **** out of them and enjoy their tears.
I'm glad those brainless exists in MWO, makes me a better man in RL, when I can make babys cry online.

[Chrithu]

Tyranum, on 14 September 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

It isn't deathmatch...I agree with this statement, but it IS ASSAULT so, to me, capping is a last resort. As The Boz said...out of ammo, critical or whatever, hell, even losing the game and the odds are being stacked against you...definitely cap. Win!
But I am that ******* when you dart from the starting location to cap. I worked hard to buy/build this mech and I want to fight with it. I waited in the que for the game to load then start up, and now I've walked halfway across the map looking for someone to shoot...and "you", in your raven (hypothetical example), just ran to the opposite base to cap before the game even started. I'll tell you "DON"T CAP!!"...but I NEVER use the word "noob" that is for idiots and 12 year olds trying to be 'tough'.

A win is NOT a win, but I agree there is a time for capping....absolutely.

I just felt like commenting on this, because when I am piloting my X-5 I am thet darting guy.

The reason I do it: I rather have the enemy lights fighting me than making my heavy and assault teammates go on a foolish and stupid squirrel hunt. And if the enemy doesn't bother to defend it is hardly my fault that no combat happens as they know EXACTLY where to find a fight.

Any ***** claiming that capping is cowardly and noobish is just some stupid *** expecting the enemy team to play according to his plans and being so nice to let him use the advantage of the fighting place he chose.

With the enlegthened cap timer there is NO excuse anymore to not go back and defend an early cap PERIOD. Actually not going back and defending because that would mean granting the enemy the chance to chose where to fight is the true act of cowardice.

[StainlessSR]

You mean you actually pay attention to the chat in game?

I stopped when I started playing on teamspeak and I really try to ignore it with the severe childness that goes on in chat now.

Play your game your way and remember IT IS A GAME.

[JuiceKeeper]

OP dont mind those people do what u think its best. if we will eve get CW it will get even worse. There u definitly will need win and not kills and was stated we will get assymetrical warfare so winning by capping noobs who dont defend base etc will be even more noticable there. If you people are soooo into kill kill kill every enemy mech and you complaining about base capping and base race in assault what if you would start to defend your own base? theres 100% quaranteee some enemy will come to cap base. after that u can go and hunt rest of team which were somewhere behind.

[Caswallon]

So does anyone else feel that all the QQ spent on complaining about "Capwarriors" in Assault should have gone to petitioning for a pure death match mode?

Each to their own after all. Provided the Win condition was say:
"Destroy enemy team before time limit is up"
I'd play it. No really I would and I'd laugh as the companies of Heavy/Assaults FAILED to bring down the last light mech and so only got a tie...

Oh yes I know there HAS been a bit of a movement for pure deathmatch before anyone points it out to me. I am just saying it would have been a bigger one if the thunderdome warriors had put all their effort into hyping it rather than complaining about Cap in assault.

TheNose, on 14 September 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Ask them, if they are capable of reading the rules and their abstract thinking ability is devolped enough to come up with some tactics that are more complex than "shot what's under triangle, ugha, ugha".

Seriously I think Nosey here has hit on the real reason that we havn't (and prolly won't) get a death match is because of the new target demographic of the game is tactically primitive button punchers that can't hold onto the idea of more than pew pew pew Boom! Such folks try a FTP game for a while and mostly drop out as such a one dimensional approach gets stale faster that even what we have now.
Oh I am not actually trying to be offensive here. Those that want to take Cap out of assault or add in a pure death match by their passion have shown they care more about the game, than the folks The Nose and I, are really worried will enter the game in numbers.

But this is all just a guess, PGI when ya get a minute can you shed some light on this maybe? Making a Death match out of Assault is simply pulling the bases and tweaking the win condition. Its a popular idea WHY haven't you done it..? Unless its for this reason and it would damage your revenue flow later on.

I am not actually out to annoy people when I cap. I just want to win by any means quiaff? The business of a warrior is to achieve victory for his side by whatever means they have. At least with cap in assault we have got these die-hard death match fans engaged in the debate they are still here in MWO making their feelings know and campaigning for a better game in the way they see it. The fact that I disagree with their premise doesn't matter, I appreciate they have feelings and have taken the time to express them.

[Reginald Lansing]

Earl White, on 14 September 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

As for "lack of planning" how exactly do you plan for a cap rush in a random game? Often it's pure chance that a cap rush pays off, you end up walking opposite sides of the map and hey presto, only the lighter faster mechs can go back to defend, and they will die because there is too much firepower to face, it doesn't help that mech types can be extremely randomized on each team.

The times you try to stay back and defend as an assault or heavy mech, you are losing a lot of firepower on the frontlines (when you don't know if the enemy is even gonna try and cap your base). If the enemy doesn't cap, well that means you turn up a few minutes late to the battle, which makes your contribution for defense null and void.

Two points quick points:

First, as a light / medium guy, the solution to your question of planning is to have a light (or a fast medium with more firepower) hang back and "roam" the backfield near the base for a bit. It's a way to avoid flankers, as well as ID an early cap.

If it's just one or two enemy cappers, your medium should be able to handle them / scare them off / delay them long enough to get more fast support back at base.

I agree that leaving a heavy or assault at base as defense is a bad idea. In the current state of the game, taking an assault off the line really hurts your chance of winning. (And, it should be noted, if your team has an assault disconnect right at the start...better think about capping, or you probably will take a loss...)

Second, to emphasize what others are saying, from the light pilot's perspective, capping and harassing are the two most significant ways I can positively influence the match. If you've never piloted a light in 12v12, try it. Try to fight. You will most likely be torn apart in the first alpha barrage that hits you.

So, what does a light pilot do? We run to the cap (or flank and take annoying pokes at the enemy). This is especially effective in uncoordinated pug matches. A single light capping the base could get two or three (or more!) enemy 'Mechs to turn around and head to base... Perfect time for you to make a push and slam into their nice, soft back armor, getting some of those C-Bill earning kills