30 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

I just had the weirdest experience in a PUG match.

A player announced to everyone that, as soon as he saw a UAC5 being used, he would disconnect.

I said: "Heads up, I am trying two of them on my new FireBrand.''

He said: "Ok, bye then'', and disconnected...!

Erm... Is using UAC5s that bad...? (I didn't get a chance to ask him what weapons I am 'allowed' to use when I'm playing him.)

[Tezcatli]

Sounds like someone is a madbro.

[DarkDevilDancer]

They are a little OP at the moment due to lower jam rate since patch but hardly game breaking, and it's getting a fix Tuesday so people will find a new meta after that.

A pair of uac5 is hardly the problem six ppcs were and we had to suffer that bull {Scrap} for months, two weeks of uac5 glory is not worth such drama.

[Bishop Steiner]

Appogee, on 14 September 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

I just had the weirdest experience in a PUG match.

A player announced to everyone that, as soon as he saw a UAC5 being used, he would disconnect.

I said: "Heads up, I am trying two of them on my new FireBrand.''

He said: "Ok, bye then'', and disconnected...!

Erm... Is using UAC5s that bad...? (I didn't get a chance to ask him what weapons I am 'allowed' to use when I'm playing him.)

Wow.

I disagree with you (obviously) on a lot of things, but that is just pathetic, Hope you reported the dude for griefing.

The UAC is an interesting case. Several patches ago, they reduced the jam mechanic from 25% to 15%. This went largely overlooked, because for the most part, people were still ridiculously metaraping the PPC/Gauss mechanic. So the UAC buff is actually nothing new. It's jsut that now that the Gauss and PPC take actual skill and forethought to use effectively, the FotM crowd has largely abandoned them and wen't to the next example of Metarape: the UAC5.

Mind you, singularly, or even in pairs, I don't find them terribly OP. Solo, the UAC is actually kinda MEH, as while it can give good damage, the jamming is much more pronounced. In pairs they are solid, but usually need good support weapons to really shine.

It's when you see them in triplicate that the issue occurs. I have all too often seen a 3xUAC core out Atlases and Stalkers before they even have chance to try to respond. Seen a fully healthy "Brawler" Atlas turned to slag in literally 5 seconds, with barely a scratch on the UAC (and the Atlas was driven by a pretty good pilot). And in some cases the use of Metas allows for a "happy" spot, where you can entirely avoid the jam mechanic. Admittedly, you can't get quite the DPS of going "full auto" in the UAC, but for many folks, it;s worth it not to jam. Dunno if I have an issue with the macros, but it has brought to light the issues with the UAC.

That said, I have often time said, look at the weapon. If solo or in pairs, it is not a huge thereat, the weapon itself probably doesn't need to be nerfed. Most weapons become OP when boated without penalty. Apparently, PGI agreed, with the introduction of Ghost Heat. So to me, the obvious solution to the "problem" would be one of two courses:

1) Add UACs to the dreaded Ghost Heat list, starting at 3 UACs, like the PPC and Large Laser, which they are certainly in the same class as. Then put their heat multiplier as pretty high. This would be a good way to also keep macros from allowing the player to cheat out of the penalty. As either they reduce rate of fire to a point the DPS is no huge advantage, or they need multiple, if brief cool downs to keep from overheating.

2) Introduce a mechanic similar to Ghost heat, but ted to their jam rate, where a single UAC carries a 15% jam rate, double a 25% jam rate, and a triple has a 35%, etc. Call it the recoil compromising reliable loading, whatever. The issue being of course, that 1) were are introducing yet another mechanic and 2) It could be macro'd around.

About the only other things I can think of would be to *GASP* actually redesign the fire rate the way the UAC was meant to be used, and have the gun fire either a single ac/5 projectile, or a double tap (with a 15% chance to jam and an unjam period like we have now)) and then follow the cooldown rate of the standard AC5 with none of this full auto nonsense.

Of course, I don't expect PGI or the current crop of Metaabusers to be liking the last option at all.

One last thought might be to introduce the dreaded Cone of Fire when running the UAC full auto with the Cone getting increasingly large with each shot fired to represent the recoil overpowering the targeting computers ability to compensate. Hmmmm.....

I actually kinda like that.

[Modo44]

The combination of allowing macros and the actual pay-to-win mech (Ilya) is bothersome. That being said, the matchmaker will **** you over much more efficiently than that.

[Appogee]

Modo44, on 14 September 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

The combination of allowing macros and the actual pay-to-win mech (Ilya) is bothersome. That being said, the matchmaker will **** you over much more efficiently than that.

LOL, true.

And I don't use macros with my UAC5s, Even though PGI haven't officially said no to them (largely I believe because they can't think how to stop them) I still don't feel that avoiding the jamming mechanic with artificial enhancements would be in the spirit of the weapon or the game.

[Bishop Steiner]

Modo44, on 14 September 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

The combination of allowing macros and the actual pay-to-win mech (Ilya) is bothersome. That being said, the matchmaker will **** you over much more efficiently than that.

no one ever said P2W with any legitimacy until the reduced the jam rate on the UAC. And since the 4X and the Jager can both carry triple UAC, that's kinda funny. (And Inaccurate)

The issue is hardly the Ilya. It's entirely on the mechanics of UAC boating (and possibly macro abuse)

[Appogee]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

...since the 4X and the Jager can both carry triple UAC,

The 4X can't carry triple UAC,

The Jager DD and S variants can carry 4 of them ... albeit slowly, with not enough ammo, and too much heat.

Edited by Appogee, 14 September 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Appogee, on 14 September 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

The 4X can't carry triple UAC,

The Jager DD and S variants can equip 4 of them ... albeit moving very slowly, and with only 25 shots til it's out of ammo.

You are correct on the 4X, forgot about the other actuator, though I have seen dual UAC5 and Dual AC5 or AC2 in them which the 2 allows very similar fire to the UAC.

The triple UAC, unless they release the Annihilator, will probably remain the "feasible" sweet spot, would you not agree? Hence the Ilya, and the JM6D and S. And to my mind, I still feels it points more to a UAC issue (though not as simple as UAC OP! HULK NERF!!! Like some people are screaming), as my first response said, than anything.

[Appogee]

I agree. 3xUAC5 is really as high as they can sensibly go. In fact I have been using them on my Ilya for months (and I didn't even realize the jamming percentage had been reduced until just a couple of days ago).

I might make a 4xUAC5 Jager for fun though, just to see what it's like.

If it has to be nerfed, I prefer the idea of changing the firing mechanic to something closer to what canon describes rather than just fiddling with the jamming percentage or introducing a random cone of fire.

[Bishop Steiner]

Appogee, on 14 September 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

I agree. 3xUAC5 is really as high as they can sensibly go. In fact I have been using them on my Ilya for months (and I didn't even realize the jamming percentage had been reduced until just a couple of days ago).

I might make a 4xUAC5 Jager for fun though, just to see what it's like.

If it has to be nerfed, I prefer the idea of changing the firing mechanic to something closer to what canon describes rather than just fiddling with the jamming percentage or introducing a random cone of fire.

I would prefer the more canon approach too. The other ideas (return to 25%) CoF and Ghost Heat all allow them them to keep the current fire mechanics though (for good or ill). ALL have their pros and cons, though.

Back to flat 25% i think punishes the single and dual UAC users unnecessarily. (Though the triple UAC Ilya was fine with it, as it was still bloody dangerous, but not an eviscerating GOD like it is now) And neither it nor an increasing jam rate mechanic would address macro abuse.

The Ghost Heat, well, it's ghost heat, lol.

CoF has it's fervent supporters and detractors, and IMO, short of rebuilding the mechanic to TT style (still the best option, I agree), probably would be one of the best solutions, the more I think of it. But lots of people get really mad about how CoF somehow "removes skill from the game". (I guess emulating realism is not skill inducing) Though of course, PGI would probably either seriously oversize the cone, or undersize it in their typical manner.

I agree the single shot or double tap with chance of jam, followed by standard AC cooldown is the best idea, but man, those people used to abusing them full on would be crying something fierce when they lose their Gatling guns! Though the OTHER advantage is it would then give a distinct demarcation for the eventual intro of UACs, which laughably, the UAC is acting EXACTLY like. (Of course, then they might have to design some single barrel UACs, lol)

[WildeKarde]

Well I was using a couple of UAC5's on a mech today, wasn't really double tapping too much. They are just quicker than standard AC5's for me to use. Personally I think removing the double shot but setting their cooldown between the standard version and the next one down would be an easy option (so UAC5 would be between AC2 and AC5 for the cooldown). They'd be a lot quicker than normal ones but not shooting twice the damage as well as being quicker.

[Grey Ghost]

Modo44, on 14 September 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

The combination of allowing macros and the actual pay-to-win mech (Ilya) is bothersome.

Is there a reason to use Macros with UAC/5's right now? I just hold down the group fire button on my Dual UAC/5 setup, and I'm doing just fine. It is currently the most successful setup for my PROTECTOR & ON1-V, and I can't even use an XL with those.

Off-Topic: I don't think I'll ever own any Cataphracts, but I have been extremely tempted by the Firebrand & Jagermechs for a while now. The current sale price on the Firebrand might push me over the edge, but that's a huge hit on what's left of my Founders MC.

[NRP]

DarkDevilDancer, on 14 September 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

They are a little OP at the moment due to lower jam rate since patch but hardly game breaking, and it's getting a fix Tuesday so people will find a new meta after that.

A pair of uac5 is hardly the problem six ppcs were and we had to suffer that bull {Scrap} for months, two weeks of uac5 glory is not worth such drama.

This post is just so full of BS it's amazing.

[Inconspicuous]

NRP, on 14 September 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

This post is just so full of BS it's amazing.

Explain?

[Jin Ma]

somebody will always rage about something.

though PGI could do a better job at not producing these wide swings in meta

[Cerlin]

They are slightly OP in the current meta with direct alpha out. But my response is shoot the UAC5 boat and hit behind geography. its the best and most direct counter.

I am not running UAC5s currently because I feel they are a tad too OP and it needs a new balancing mechanism. However that is a personal choice and if the other team is going to use them, I will counter.

[DarkDevilDancer]

I ran ultras on my Illya long before the change I'm not changing a loadout I like because pgi changed something without really informing us.

I didn't QQ about gauss changes I won't QQ about uac changes as long as it remains a viable option.

[Alek Ituin]

I cant wait for the crying that will arise when they add the RAC/5.

Oh, what was that? you think the UAC/5 is bad right now? The RAC/5 can fire 6x as fast, and jams less (IIRC).


You'll really only need one of them, good amount of HS/DHS, and lots of ammo... but oh boy will that thing shred 'Mechs.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 14 September 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alek Ituin, on 14 September 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

I cant wait for the crying that will arise when they add the RAC/5.

Oh, what was that? you think the UAC/5 is bad right now? The RAC/5 can fire 6x as fast, and jams less (IIRC).


You'll really only need one of them, good amount of HS/DHS, and lots of ammo... but oh boy will that thing shred 'Mechs.

funny, since the current UAC is actually a picture perfect replica of the TT RAC. Right down to the jam mechanic. Which is sort of the point some of us have been making.